Author Topic: Fallout: New Vegas  (Read 45450 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:15:26 »
Quote from: chimera15
The current finances I have I need to use to either get a job so I have income, or fulfill responsibilities I have to people around me, which both building an i7 or going to Japan would be doing.  They might look like something you would do for fun or vacation, but that was never the point.


I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:22:56 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;236413
I would love to hear an explanation as to how either going to Japan or building an i7 will get you a job or fulfill responsibilities you have to people around you.


It's in that thread if you read it.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:31:01 »
Quote from: ripster;236410
We have guys in our neighborhood that sell car radios for cheap.
Show Image

I've bought a car stereo from one of those guys before.  That was before ebay existed though, and was less obvious and known for sure that that kind of thing is associated with thievery.  

Even so, if they are, they're selling them, not giving out copies of them for free.  There's a difference there as well.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:34:23 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:37:36 »
Quote from: chimera15
It's in that thread if you read it.


A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand. They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:39:55 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;236424
A. You shouldn't need to go to Japan (or any other country) just to get a job. It makes even less sense since you said you're in school.

B. If all you need is a computer for school you could spend ~$300 on a computer that would have all the capabilities you would need to do schoolwork.

IMHO if want to travel that far and get a job go to New Zealand. They need skilled workers, plus they speak English. Hope you like sheep!

You can even do a working holiday there. It's one of the easiest countries to immigrate to, and they have plenty of jobs.


Stop trying to bring that thread to this one, this is about fallout.  If you want to argue about it and my reasons go post in that thread, and read some of it.  I've already had this argument over there.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:10 »
I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 12:56:32 »
Meanwhile, in New Zealand


Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:04:27 »
Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:11:42 »
Quote from: instantkamera;236433
I noticed you essentially ignore my post. It's cool, you have clearly shown your colours. You can pay for **** to PLAY games, because there's no way you are getting a free gaming PC, but you cant splurge on the software. Basically, you are the WORST thief ever, too chicken **** to actually go out there and steal **** for yourself, you have to leech off others

...

Oh wait, didnt someone mention that already?

Oh, and FYI, if the cops catch you with something hot, I'm pretty sure "well I didn't steal it" isn't gonna fly.

I didn't ignore your post.  I just didn't quote you cause I quoted someone else.  You obviously ignored my post though.

The law is clear, what I'm doing is not theft and it's not against the law.  If the cops arrest you for doing something which isn't illegal, well.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:13:50 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;236435
Sadly, I'm rather surprised that the game is still so buggy. I noticed that my F3 Game of the Year edition was infested with CTD (that's Crash To Desktop) bugs, whereas my neighbor's launch version was less buggy. He had a hell of a time getting all the DLC to integrate properly, which you'd think would be a no-brainer. Thanks, GFW Live!

Keeping that track record in mind, it's possible the inevitable New Vegas GOTY edition may very well be totally unplayable. I'm having Stalker flashbacks just thinking of it.


Interesting.  I haven't had one crash so far.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:19:17 »
Quote from: ripster;236440
Arrrrghhhh!
Show Image

It's not like I'm out there on the street corner reselling it.  That would definitely be illegal and unethical.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:28:13 »
Quote from: chimera15;236437
I didn't ignore your post.  I just didn't quote you cause I quoted someone else.  You obviously ignored my post though.

The law is clear, what I'm doing is not theft and it's not against the law.  If the cops arrest you for doing something which isn't illegal, well.


Im pretty sure the law is anything BUT clear. Depending where you live, this activity (file sharing) may or may not be legal or "tolerated". In MANY Countries, the laws currently in place are under scrutiny by those on the other side of the coin. As this is currently a very REAL issue, it is clear there is more to it then:

a) all software (or IP in general) should be free/shared etc.

b) the Industry should be able to dictate the usage of a piece of work to the letter, having supreme control over everything.

The issue is not black and white. So you arent a thief, just a cheapskate. And still full of ****.
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:29:22 »
HEY



HEY GUYS




LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GAME k????????
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:32:55 »
I have never played a fallout game. What's the deal? is it an FPS? Is it available on the PS3?
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:33:45 »
Quote from: instantkamera;236446
Im pretty sure the law is anything BUT clear. Depending where you live, this activity (file sharing) may or may not be legal or "tolerated". In MANY Countries, the laws currently in place are under scrutiny by those on the other side of the coin. As this is currently a very REAL issue, it is clear there is more to it then:

a) all software (or IP in general) should be free/shared etc.

b) the Industry should be able to dictate the usage of a piece of work to the letter, having supreme control over everything.

The issue is not black and white. So you arent a thief, just a cheapskate. And still full of ****.


The fact is it's not been black and white since software has existed.  There's not going to be a solution because there isn't any.  That in my mind makes it pretty white.  Computers were made to crack and hack.  That was what they were originally designed to do, and are doing so to this day.  That's their purpose.  Putting a piece of intellectual property on one and hoping for it to be 100% secure and marketable therefore is a foolhardy attempt.  Or for that matter, any piece of pure media.

The only way you can even attempt it is to match exploit with anti-exploit, and it will continue to be this way.  Game companies are lagging far behind security, it's obvious.  Their games shouldn't be cracked the day they come out.

Even xbox, New Vegas was out and cracked for modded xboxes a week before it was released.  This shouldn't happen.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:37:59 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:43:06 »
Quote from: instantkamera;236450
I have never played a fallout game. What's the deal? is it an FPS? Is it available on the PS3?

Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas are post-apocalyptic sandbox RPG FPS games with a lot of dark humor and a strong fanbase, though a history of technical issues. They are available on PC, 360, and PS3.

Fallout and Fallout 2 were post-apocalyptic isometric RPGs from the late 1990s with a lot of dark humor and an amazingly strong cult following, and a history of technical issues. Only for PC.

There was also Fallout: Tactics, which was an isometric tactical shooter that was kind of ok, and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel, which sucked balls. And "Van Buren", which was going to be Fallout 3, but Interplay went bankrupt so it was never finished. Then the IP was sold to Bethesda, who made Fallout 3, and they then licensed it to Obsidian (made up of former Interplay developers) to make Fallout: New Vegas.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:47:58 by Phaedrus2129 »
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:46:25 »
and wasteland.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline elservo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 201
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 13:55:47 »
I just checked Steam for old Fallout games on Mac, and nope, no dice.  Oh well, it was worth a look.  I didn't know of any issues between Apple and the publisher for Fallout, so I guess if I had done a little homework first I wouldn't have went looking for it.  Lots of games on Steam for Mac, though.  That's good to see.
Majestouch Tactile Click (Work)
AEKII(Home)

Offline elservo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 201
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:02:56 »
Geekhack is for guys who find fly-fishing too vigorous.
Majestouch Tactile Click (Work)
AEKII(Home)

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:12:24 »
i wonder if his stance is still the same 34 years later.
Quote
By William Henry Gates III

February 3, 1976

An Open Letter to Hobbyists

To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?

Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.

The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.

Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid?

Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.

What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.

I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software.



Bill Gates

General Partner, Micro-Soft

Offline elservo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 201
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 14:36:22 »
Bill Gates would have made something of himself if only he had dropped that dash between Micro and Soft.  Poor guy.
Majestouch Tactile Click (Work)
AEKII(Home)

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 15:48:17 »
Quote from: ripster;236475
Perhaps Bill Gates is not the best model for ethical behavior....

How about this guy?

Hey, it is legal in my state!
Show Image


Bill gates is giving away billions to charity while tiger has to pay millions for alimony. Who has a better sense of ethics?

really the crux of all this copyright and who deserves to get paid? lets look at example 1, Linus Torvalds, he just became a US citizen and of course is known as inventor/writer of Linux. He wrote a free OS, and other companys like Red Hat profitted by packaging the rewritten OS into a CD and offering support. Of course Red Hat didn't want to seem like a total ingrate and gave Linus stock options, but they didn't have to either. He has a good job position now and does well, but that's because he's Linus Torvalds, he made Linux, just like Bill Gates can go around the world giving free mosquito nets and vaccines to everyone, ppl will still think, hey his OS is running my netbook.

copyright pays and hurts industry,

buy a whole cd to get one song, everyone knows 90% of a CD is junk.
now they release singles. and itunes

well why can't Bluray be like this? why can't i just get a stripped down blue ray with no director's commentary or extra's and pay less?

the music industry wants everyone to pay for everything, they make it impossible for internet radio to function but let FM radio off the hook, a whole generation of ppl were brought up on the notion of a "mixed tape" were ppl really recording from one tape to another or were they waiting for the stupid DJ to stop talking so they could ninja press "play" + "rec" really fast?

Now if you give a mixed tape/CD/thumb drive to someone, your considerated a pirate.

i'm not taking a stance, just making a statement that the RIAA and the movie industry are all sorts of messed up with digital media and copyright and fair rights, and dvr's and tivo's and everything, while the software industry has always been at least constant, you steal... you steal, no wiggle room.
Of course even the software industry has stupid rules where MS says that windows is tied to a specific motherboard purchase/ or now the new license whatever thing with autodesk.

I just recently had a dinner convo with one guy and said that his movie nights with friends are essentially against the law, he's like how? and i'm like well your playing the dvd in your house and making a profit, he's like i don't make a profit. I go sure you do, as a good house guest ppl bring over sodas/beers chips and stuff right? he goes yea, I go well that could be considered an admission fee, cuz otherwise they wouldn't be allowed in.

Of course my example is absurd, but a good lawyer i'm sure could make a case out of it.

Offline WhiteRice

  • Posts: 850
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 15:52:42 »
Quote from: chimera15;236451
Computers were made to crack and hack.  


Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:09:30 »
Quote from: WhiteRice;236491
Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.


Uh, no, the first real computers or really calculators in modern times (non roman times) were made to gamble on horse racing.  There were tons of mechanical calculators leading up to ww2, that did a variety of things.  The first electronic ones which  could more accurately be defined as computers were built to crack codes.  Artillery falls probably somewhere in between there.  Actually Eniac and Colussus were sort of a tie.  


« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:28:22 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:20:56 »
Quote from: chimera15;235788
this is probably the only non free game I'll play in a year or two, and built a whole system basically just to play it.


Quote from: chimera15;236195
If I had an income and wasn't a poor student, that's hugely in debt I might consider buying it.


The sickening thing about your attitude is not so much that you want something for nothing. Most of us have "tested" software without paying for it at some stage. But you were so hyped about this upcoming game that you built a new system to play it on, and you are STILL unwilling to reward the creators?

My personal ethic is that if I *use* a product (as opposed to explore it) I will pay for it. That's why I bought Photoshop and several upgrades, even though it's insanely overpriced for personal use.

You can argue semantics all you like. You are acting dishonestly. Just because the people you are defrauding cannot hunt you down personally and you will get away with it, that doesn't mean your actions aren't illegal and unethical. You can't even be honest with yourself. If you built a system primarily for the game you could have afforded to pay for it.

If you are studying business ethics maybe you should put your own example forward for a class discussion. You might be surprised by the reactions.

===============
Edit> Not worth adding another post, but wanted to point this out:

Quote from: chimera15;236098
Ethical decision making.  One of the things you learn in business 101.  Legality is the first of several tests, like how does it make you feel about yourself, and such.

http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html


Did you even read the first paragraph of the page you linked???

Quote
Is it legal?
This is the first filter through which your ethical decision will pass.  Legal and ethical are not equivalent concepts.  ...  Don’t simply stop your ethical decision making process at whether an action is legal.  The law may not address something making it legal but it still may [be] unethical.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:49:07 by Rajagra »

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:32:26 »
Quote from: Rajagra;236496
The sickening thing about your attitude is not so much that you want something for nothing. Most of us have "tested" software without paying for it at some stage. But you were so hyped about this upcoming game that you built a new system to play it on, and you are STILL unwilling to reward the creators?

My personal ethic is that if I *use* a product (as opposed to explore it) I will pay for it. That's why I bought Photoshop and several upgrades, even though it's insanely overpriced for personal use.

You can argue semantics all you like. You are acting dishonestly. Just because the people you are defrauding cannot hunt you down personally and you will get away with it, that doesn't mean your actions aren't illegal and unethical. You can't even be honest with yourself. If you built a system primarily for the game you could have afforded to pay for it.

If you are studying business ethics maybe you should put your own example forward for a class discussion. You might be surprised by the reactions.


I wouldn't be surprised at the reaction, because the mpaa has so clouded the issue, and put forth ridiculous arguments that people that are clear thinking about the issue are just shouted down.

 It's not semantics, it's actually a very complex issue, as shown by the court decisions, and the endless appeals on the mpaa's side after the issue has already been decided over and over again on my side.  Courts don't rule on semantics.

I didn't really build the system for just fallout.  That was a complete simplification as it should be obvious.  I actually built it for Warrock.  Or actually in reality I built it just to build it to learn the ins and outs of building a socket 1366 system so I know how to work on them if I get a job as a pc tech as I have in the past.  Not to mention to learn how to overclock.  

Warrock is a free game that is ad and perk supported, and is a successful business model, even though it's been hacker ridden since its inception.  Fallout was probably about 10% of why I built it.  I have 3 other machines that could have run it as good or better than the 1366 system I built, cause right now I have crap graphics cards in it to play war rock on which has a bug in it right now that seems to work better with older graphics cards.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:40:54 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline elservo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 201
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:44:26 »
They should sell games with those intense graph cards that you have to match up, character-wise.  I know it would be cracked within a couple minutes by nerds with too many algorithms rattling about in their brains, but I just always dug those cards.
Majestouch Tactile Click (Work)
AEKII(Home)

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 16:55:17 »
Quote from: WhiteRice;236491
Computers were made to calculate artillery tables.

Alright, here's a better clarification.

http://www.askthecomputertech.com/eniac.html

The code breaking computers were kept secret, and so no patents were issued.  The first computers were code breakers/crackers.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:00:39 »
Quote from: Rajagra;236496


Did you even read the first paragraph of the page you linked???


Uh, I believe I said that.  Do people even read a second sentence if I write it?  They just read the first sentence or first few words then ignore the rest?


Originally Posted by chimera15 View Post
Ethical decision making. One of the things you learn in business 101. Legality is the first of several tests, like how does it make you feel about yourself, and such.

http://www.compasssolutions.biz/id27.html
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:04:17 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:12:25 »
The point is, it is a "necessary but insufficient" test. It can prove something to be unethical, but it can't prove anything to be ethical.
« Last Edit: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:14:42 by Rajagra »

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #80 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:19:36 »
Quote from: ripster;236512
Actually the codecrackers (called bombes) were built by the "Greatest Generation" in order to fight pure evil.

Something slackers wouldn't know about.  Making up ethics to suit your needs.

Evil is relative.  You can define anything as evil, and justify your actions.  The fact is that computers were made to crack into and read private messages, and compromise intellectual property.  You can choose to justify that as being some higher purpose, but at it's foundation it's unethical, and even illegal if you were to try it in a non war condition.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 17:23:22 »
It's still illegal to crack or use cracked software if the license forbids it in the terms of you using it.

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #82 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 06:46:06 »
Cant argue anymore, this will turn into another "Graphics Cards" ... This guy is so full of **** that my monitor is starting to stink.

We win by default because of this:

Quote
I didn't really build the system for just fallout. That was a complete simplification as it should be obvious. I actually built it for Warrock. Or actually in reality I built it just to build it to learn the ins and outs of building a socket 1366 system so I know how to work on them if I get a job as a pc tech as I have in the past. Not to mention to learn how to overclock ... Fallout was probably about 10% of why I built it ...

=

Quote
I can't even write an entire paragraph without contradicting myself

Clearly there is some form of inner struggle going on, so we'll let you continue that on your own.

Back to the game!!
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #83 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 07:50:30 »
I declare this thread fail.




Anyway, I've played the game long enough to spot most of the things that annoy me. Now time to head over to newvegasnexus.com to get mods to fix them. Not a *ton* of mods are out yet, but several useful ones are, such as the one to fix mouse acceleration, and one to give a further-out 3rd person view.

Only thing that pisses me off that a mod probably won't fix is graphics performance. With my Radeon HD4870 1GB I can totally max Fallout 3 on 1440x900 with a framerate of 45-80. In New Vegas, which has no graphical upgrades, I get 20-50. This should not be, since New Vegas actually has worse graphics for everything except faces; textures and objects pop in a lot closer even with draw distances maxed, new textures are muddy and un-detailed, there's less water and it isn't as well detailed... It isn't even DX10, it's all DX9 stuff. Why the **** can't I max this game like FO3? Because they didn't optimize it.

At least I don't have an nVidia card. I've heard that Nvidia users are getting terrible performance; GTX460s are performing at levels you'd expect of a GT440.
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #84 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 07:59:37 »
I don't fold, personally.

As for FNV, I wonder if it's a CPU bottleneck... Maybe I'll bump up to 3700MHz and see if it's faster. :)
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline muchadoaboutnothing

  • Posts: 667
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #85 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:03:35 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;236517
It's still illegal to crack or use cracked software if the license forbids it in the terms of you using it.


Civilly, not criminally. That doesn't address the ethical issues.

Offline muchadoaboutnothing

  • Posts: 667
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:18:29 »
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:26:36 »
Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;236734
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?


sha-dy


So I guess I should try fallout3 first on my ps3.

"durr, what's a fallout?" ... ****, can you tell Im not a gamer?
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #88 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:37:18 »

Guess I'll wait till it isn't a horrible broken mess released too soon.

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #89 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:38:30 »
Quote from: ripster;236743
Well I knew you were here just for the trollin'.


not true. I'm here to stalk you. Until I saw your forearm in the writing utensil thread I though you were a chick. I'm still not convinced otherwise.
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline Ekaros

  • Posts: 942
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #90 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 17:49:29 »
OK, now I'm kinda happy I didn't pre-order CE as I was going to, but then they announced it so much after US in EU that I forgot...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
Filco 105-key NKRO MX Browns Sw/Fi-layout|IBM Model M 1394545 Lexmark 102-key Finnish-layout 1994-03-22|Cherry G80-3000LQCDE-2 with MX CLEAR
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dell AT102W(105-key SF) (Black ALPS)|Steelseries Steelkeys 6G(MX Black) ISO-FI-layout|Cherry G84-4400 G84-4700 Cherry MLs

Offline Mercen_505

  • Posts: 200
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #91 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 18:14:41 »
Quote
Bethesda is now forcing reviewers to pull negative reviews until the ad campaign is over or they won't advertise or ship preview games/materials to them ever again. Was this mentioned earlier in this thread?

This is SOP for any publisher (and sometimes devs) with real clout. The 'net is starting to mitigate this particular nastiness, but it still happens. If you don't want the occasional bad review, then don't make a game. I've always found it terrible business for review mags/sites to sell ad space to game developers. On the surface you'd think it would be the right thing to do, what with the target audience buying games (!), but then **** like this happens and people start to wake up to the fact that you never really had any credibility from the moment you took your first dollar from the industry you supposedly hold to task.

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #92 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 18:32:59 »
Finally got power armor, and became a paladin. Was starting to think it wasn't possible almost.  hehehe.  Kinda sucks though, it's basically you have to make an enemy of almost everyone else in the region to do it, including the ncr which sucks cause they send people to kill you all the time.  I suppose there might be an alternative way to learn how to wear powerarmor but haven't seen any indications of it.
« Last Edit: Thu, 21 October 2010, 18:35:42 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #93 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 19:06:18 »
Quote from: ripster

At least you got your money's worth.



Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #94 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 00:00:54 »
Final legionnaire guy is impossible to kill for me.  I think I messed up my skills or something.  Can't damage him no matter what I do.  Plus I'm completely cut off, after I went through a giant gauntlet already, there's no where to heal or get supplies.  That's pretty messed up.  It's incredibly impossible on the hard mode.  The stupid part is I have enough speech it looks like to get out of the fight with him, but am like super injured and can't heal my body parts cause I need a doctor in hard mode.

I suppose I could redo the battle in easy mode.  That might be the simplest way out.  Sucks though, played the whole game in hard and almost done looks like.  My stupid robots won't follow me into camp, darnit.

Hmm, I suppose all I really have to do is go back to the last save point I had a stimpak, then heal down in easy mode..then continue from there...that might work....
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 October 2010, 10:24:28 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline RoboKrikit

  • Posts: 198
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #95 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 01:46:49 »
I was once like chimera15.  I was young, had no money, and the Internet was a free software shopping spree; I justified my pirating using the superpowers of denial and logic.  Now I usually buy my software.  There is hope.

I actually did build my new box for Fallout New Vegas, though I of course had plenty of other things in mind that somehow justified the cost. :)  But I have to wait until Monday to play. :(
Lovely day for a GUINNESS

Offline elservo

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 201
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #96 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 02:50:52 »
It's too bad the big hardware companies can't make great games too, huh?  That way they would still get your money by making you buy their latest rig to get the best performance.  

*Waits for 50 examples of why I'm wrong*
Majestouch Tactile Click (Work)
AEKII(Home)

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #97 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 05:31:15 »
Quote from: RoboKrikit;237133
I was once like chimera15.  I was young, had no money, and the Internet was a free software shopping spree; I justified my pirating using the superpowers of denial and logic.  Now I usually buy my software.  There is hope.


Chimera's 37 though. Old enough to know better.

Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #98 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 06:26:12 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;237156
Chimera's 37 though. Old enough to know better.


Chimera37?
Realforce 86UB - Razer Blackwidow - Dell AT101W - IBM model MCST  LtracX - Kensington Orbit - Logitech Trackman wheel opticalAMD PhenomII x6 - 16GB RAM - SSD - RAIDDell U2211H - Spyder3 - Eye One Display 2

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Fallout: New Vegas
« Reply #99 on: Fri, 22 October 2010, 08:32:19 »
Quote from: instantkamera;237172
Chimera37?

I was 15 when I built my first computer(an at clone, pirated?) and started my first forays into bbs's and such.  I've been chimera15 for like 22 years. lol  Not going to change a good user name.  It's really got nothing to do with age though.  Why do people always assume that?  It's mainly easy to use cause no one has it on most message boards, even the really big ones.  There usually is a chimera, 1, 2, 3, already.  Hate using hours coming up with a new name when the one you want is taken, so I just use this one.

I suppose my views on piracy/software have a lot to do on how I was raised.  Back in the 80's and even 70's my father had access to pirated, or really what has come to be known as pirated, but really shared stuff through his work, so I never knew any different. I always lived by the philosophy that software should be free. When I was about 10 in middle school, a friend of mine got a computer, and I offered him some software, and was shocked by his attitude that he would actually want to pay for it.  Back in those days that was a pretty rare attitude.  Most of my friends were all into sharing, pirating, and even cracking software. Pretty much lost a friend over it even. lol

Don't get me wrong, I've bought tons of software over the years.  I used to buy games too.  I've got like 5 huge cd folders full of legal cd's of games, and apps.  100's even 1000's of titles.  I just don't see much point to it anymore.  Especially not given how it depreciates. The reality is software really isn't worth anything, or it wouldn't be worthless the minute you buy it.  It represents thousands of dollars of my debt that I'm not able to recoup if I have to go bankrupt, as I would with tools, materials, or hardware.  It's really the one thing that has no value in actuality.

It's actually a really good idea to tie software to hardware.  You saw that with halo, and halo versions of xbox's.  And fallout has merchandise too.  It's a much better business model.  There are workable business models where software and media is free.  It's like Mel Brooks said,  "Merchandising! It's where the real money is made." Or something to that effect.

I also consider myself a Utopian.   I believe ultimately everything will be free, and there will be enough for everyone to have whatever they want.  If they need something, they can make it themselves, easily.  Computers have the ability to make that come true.  Software and media is just the first step.  You look at ebay, and you see it happening with hardware and other things well.  Most things are coming out of China, a forced utopian communist society for pennies.

Is paying 5 cents for something coming out of china stealing when it costs $10 for the exact same thing in America?  I suppose the difference is if it's patented or not?   Even if it's not patented. I'm supposed to pay $9.99 cents for something when it's real cost is 5 cents, because someone in the location on the planet that I am bounded by an imaginary line says they thought of it first, or because the cost of labor is greater here? Just doesn't seem right to me.

I built my 1366 system mostly with es/made parts out of China, or used/refurb parts and it cost me a fraction of what the same parts would have cost me if I bought it in a store here in America.  Is that theft, piracy, communism, utopianism, or is that being a good capitalist?


I suppose it comes down to lines we all draw.  Some people draw their lines at writing virus's and showing people that software is meaningless and worthless, and justify their ethics in that.  Others draw their lines, at having to pay for everything, and that software writers should be paid.  I think I actually fall somewhere in the middle, and am comfortable with that.
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 October 2010, 09:43:42 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx