Author Topic: Getting my butt handed in SCII  (Read 7896 times)

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Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« on: Tue, 26 October 2010, 06:46:44 »
This is annoying. I don't have the time to dedicate to video games anymore. I took a month away from SCII, and last night I tried two 1v1 matches and just got decimated.

Does any one have any good resources for countering opponents builds?

Offline Arc'xer

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 26 October 2010, 10:24:17 »
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page

There's also a lot of youtube videos of people doing game analysis and stuff like Day9 but a lot of his videos are 50 minutes+, so if you got the time.

Offline kriminal

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 26 October 2010, 10:38:51 »
add me on Bnet, i need to hand someone their butts :)
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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 26 October 2010, 13:06:35 »
What Arc'xer said. Unfortunately, getting better also requires a lot of time.

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Offline vicariouscheese

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 02 November 2010, 10:46:51 »
depending on what your current level is, watching day9 is probably the best way to move up without just pounding out games.

constantly make workers
watch your food
spend your money, you should never go over 400 :P
dont que up units
everything else is secondary until those become second nature

Offline Phaedrus2129

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 02 November 2010, 11:11:43 »
Constantly make workers and supply. Spare money? Make workers. More spare money? Make supply. Constantly.


DON'T turtle up. Never use a building for defense when you can use a unit (Protoss cannons are an exception, but don't go overboard with them either; three is too many until late in the game). An army is a lot more useful than a wall.
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Offline Syrianto

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 04 November 2010, 21:53:54 »
Also try to find some build orders online. They're pretty helpful in giving you a good start

Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 04 November 2010, 22:37:06 »
I've been practicing some simple building orders. My biggest problem is that when the game first came out I got to diamond league. Then I got busy and haven't has time to play for like a month.

So in the mean time everyone has like mastered the game to a degree greater than I.

If anyone want to play with me I would be more than willing.

My biggest issue is understanding how counter opponents effectively.

Offline elbowglue

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 04 November 2010, 23:06:21 »
Add me to friends elbowglue 640.  I pretty much only play 2v2's (random and set teams) which I find a little more interesting and less pressure than 1v1's.
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 06:30:43 »
idk about the advice to not turtle up.

as terran u sometimes basically have to do that to play through your strengths.

I think the day9 watching tip is good, I will also do that once I finished new vegas and try to jump back into SC2.

With constantly build workers: I am not sure on that. I have heard that a lot as well but I also read that once you have 3 workers on 1 mineral patch every next worker is over saturated and doesn't help anymore. So once you have 3 on each patch you should go with an expansion.

Another important tip: Stick with 1 build first. Once you are confident with it (no matter if you loose or win with it, I mean execution here), you can start to add another 1 or 2 build types for example for different race opponents. Once you master all those 2 or 3 different builds, you can start adjusting your builds creatively depending on what the opponent is doing, that's when you start to become good. Next step is fine tuning and improving your macro and micro management the best you can.

I got to the point where I had a standard built for each race, that already helps a bit. After that I think I started playing some battlefield again and then nba 2k11 came out. Haven't played since :(

Offline Twitchy

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Day[9] Dailies
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 07:57:37 »
These two look at the fundamentals and are probably a good place to start. They're also available on YouTube, though the last time I looked they were broken down into chunks (the dailies usually come in at about an hour long).

Day[9] Daily #132 - Back to the Basics: The Mental Checklist
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/3732340/

Day[9] Daily #177 - Simple Winning Techniques
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4113652/

Anyone tried any of the Funday Mondays?
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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:20:51 »
If you need someone to practice against, PM me. I'm on quite often. I'm low diamond, so probably at a similar level.

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Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 10:26:18 »
Wang #700

Offline Phaedrus2129

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 13:46:00 »
Take this as an example of why turtling is not a good option, especially for beginning players:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/89871-1v1-terran-protoss-novice-desert-oasis


I was playing terribly. My resources were way to high, I was making mistakes, queuing units, getting supply blocked...

But I won. Why? I spent my money on units and unit producing structures. I expanded. I scouted and had a presence on the map, had sentries at the watchtowers and a couple choke points. I built a large mobile force, large enough that it wouldn't matter how many cannons he had, I could just walk on through it. I micro'd, focusing fire, had a good unit mix for TvP (marine+marauder is very effective against early-to-mid game Protoss). I never built a single bunker or defensive structure, except a missile turret at one of his choke points to check for dark templar if he got tricky, something that never happened.

I did NOT follow any build order, other than knowing that you should build a supply depot and barracks very early on, as soon as you have the cash.


He couldn't have won. He sank all his resources into massive defense. If he'd spent all that money on zealots and stalkers he could have wiped out my first attack, backtracked me, and done serious damage to my base while I was rebuilding my forces. Instead he built more cannons.


Turtling as a beginning player is the worst thing you can do, because you delude yourself into thinking you're safe. And then when your shell is cracked with minimal difficulty you tell yourself that you just need a better defense, or that the other player is just too good. This is false. You need to be aggressive. If you never attack the enemy base, how do you expect to win?

Turtling will make it take longer before you lose, but you will still lose.
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Offline FoxSpirit

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 16:38:23 »
Don't worry, you can turtle plenty fine as a Terran.
Just wall in, get some siege tanks.
Then expand.

So very safe on most maps.

Oh, and never ever try Zerg ;-)

Offline Phaedrus2129

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 19:13:41 »
Quote from: FoxSpirit;243160
Don't worry, you can turtle plenty fine as a Terran.
Just wall in, get some siege tanks.
Then expand.

So very safe on most maps.

Oh, and never ever try Zerg ;-)


TvT turtling doesn't work either. This was my first game too:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/89511-1v1-terran-agria-valley#rd:undefined;markup
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Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 19:33:35 »
I'm on tonight, so if anyone wants to play add me, Wang 700

Offline Twitchy

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 20:06:19 »
Not watching MLG Dallas then, should be some good games. I'm going to be exhausted all weekend as coverage probably won't stop until 4am-ish :)
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 November 2010, 20:07:16 by Twitchy »
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Offline Phaedrus2129

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 20:15:53 »
Quote from: WhiteRice;243217
I'm on tonight, so if anyone wants to play add me, Wang 700


I need your character code and email address to add you, can't do it just with a name.
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Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 05 November 2010, 20:38:24 »
What about add character friend?

Offline phate408

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 14:48:16 »
Sort of related.

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Offline CodeChef

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 16:11:55 »
Quote from: phate408;243903
Sort of related.

{youtube]XduXCp91_IA[/youtube]


Are you kidding? Two dragoons could NOT take out one full bunker. Stopped watching after that BS.
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Offline Azuremen

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 06:17:28 »
Quote from: CodeChef;243925
Are you kidding? Two dragoons could NOT take out one full bunker. Stopped watching after that BS.


Unless you forgot the range on the Marines :p

Basically, constantly make workers and keep your money low. If you do that, you'll ruin most players. Provided you remember to expand and transfer workers each time.

2 barracks expand builds are very strong against Protoss, where as fast hellions are quite nice against Z.

Strong macro solves 95% of problems below mid diamond, from what I've seen.
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 07:31:15 »
Yeah I watched some Day9 again recently. Watch his "newbie tuesday" videos, priceless.

The first episode is really neat, he basically just hammers into your brain that the most important thing is to "build probes, build pylons, build probes, build pylons" (or the scvs, depots you get it).

This is actually very, very true, a lot of times people try to improve at the wrong points like their strategy, what build order they use and how to micro, when to expand all that stuff. While all of this is not NEARLY as important as just continuously building probes and pylons. Because if you do that, you will just always have more **** than your enemy and you would be surprised by how many games you can win just by having more ****.

I don't think I can explain the reasoning behind this nearly as well as day9 so honestly, go ahead and check out the newbie tuesday episode 1. It's explained perfectly.

Offline CodeChef

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 08:13:53 »
Another thing most players overlook but I've found is quite useful is hotkeys. Always always always control-# to make groups. I assign Command Center to 4, Rax to 3, build-specific production facility to 2, and then anything i want fast access to to 1 (army usually). double-tapping the number centers the unit on-screen, so it's very useful for switching postitions rapidly without using minimap. also, know hotkeys for commands. I know SCV is s in com center, a is marine in rax, d is medivac in starport, c is scan in oribtal command, e is mule, etc. It actually increased my APM by a good 5-10 point average when I started using hotkeys more.
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Offline Azuremen

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 20:49:57 »
1 - Ground Army
2 - Phoenixes, Warp Prism, generally fast, harass units
3 - High Templar or Dark Templar
4 - Robotics/Stargates
5 - Nexus(eseses)
6 - Observer
7 - Another Observer

Gives me slightly better control in fights, and over my harass units. Just 5e, 11 check position, 22 move harass units and do harass, 4(unit key) 5c chrono, 55ee c boost probes, etc.

In combat I can hit 1gf click click a click, 3 t shift click as needed. Much easier than tabbing between HT, Sentrys, Blink Stalkers, and Chargelots. Often, Blink Stalkers = 2 so I can blink them to allow Zealots to get a better position.
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 November 2010, 20:54:16 by Azuremen »
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 09:40:12 »
1 Main Army
2 "Special Units" such as air, or siege tanks or harass units
3 Scout
4 Command Center (all of them)
5 All Production facilities (Barracks, Factories, Starports)

6-0 rarely used, maybe if it get's really late game and I want my battlecruisers in a seperate group

I really like the thing with all production facilities in one control group. Many people tend to think it gets messed up if they have their barracks and factories in the same group and they won't know what to produce. But if I hit "5" it automatically selects all my barracks first, so if I hit "A" it produces marines. If I want to produce I siege tank, I just hit "Tab" while I have my control group "5" selected and it will automatically switch to the next type of production facility. Then I can produce ma tankz easily.

Found this very helpful.

Offline vicariouscheese

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 09:58:34 »
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;242880
With constantly build workers: I am not sure on that. I have heard that a lot as well but I also read that once you have 3 workers on 1 mineral patch every next worker is over saturated and doesn't help anymore. So once you have 3 on each patch you should go with an expansion.

when youre in the middle of a game, youre not going to count out 24 workers and then stop then expand; its a waste of time.  

it has also been proven (seriously proven, like people have way too much time on their hands :P) that you have a better economy by constantly building workers, then when you expand you transfer your extra workers over.  thus you have 2 bases almost saturated, instead of one saturated and one slowly building harvesters.

basically dont stop making workers until youre top diamond and know when its smart to cut one or two to put down 3 gateways at once or something along those lines.

edit: i guess if youre playing a one base all-in, then you do stop at 30 workers.  but i always play with a macro/expanding mindset so i always forget alot of people just one-base all day long

Offline Fwiffo

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 10:19:18 »
I find 1a awkward to hit. I hit 1 with my ring finger because it's hard to reach with my pinky, but that makes hitting A really awkward. So I don't have attacking units on 1.

1 forward pylon for warping in reenforcements
2 main army
3-4 other unit group, situation dependent (colossus, casters, air units, drops, etc.)
5 all nexuses
6 all robotics facilities
7 all stargates
8 all tech/upgrade buildings
9-0 observers, probe scouts, etc.

Early in the game before I get warpgate research done I have my gateways on 6. I use W to access them after they've been morphed. Most of the time that doesn't cause a conflict because I usually don't have a robo out that long before warpgate is done.
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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 10:24:56 »
The "constantly build workers" rule is absolute. I wish I could find the thread on team liquid where they discuss it... but it has been very rigorously proven, and you should do it. No exceptions (unless you're Zerg, which has a different worker/economy paradigm).

Of course, with this comes the assumption that you are expanding. Which, really, you should be. Starcraft is an economy game more than anything else.

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 22 November 2010, 17:43:16 »
Yeah, keeping the food limit, keeping gold spent and using hotkeys. And maybe scouting. The rest is far less relevant. Compulsive micro-managers can generally be offset because they can't focus on everything at once, not to mention they can get tired (bigger strain on them than on you) or impatient. As someone with a fine motorics impairment in my dominant hand, I tend to rely on ranged units and/or buffing more heavily, as well as doing upgrades (which is a different way from micro of losing fewer units and it's passive) and having stuff properly hotkeyed (including sometimes the upgrades building of which I sometimes build two when I have good enough economy). Although, say, after years of playing Warcraft 3, I sometimes beat better macro/economy managers by sheer micro, but putting the same amount of time in it, a typical Korean kid would end up 10 times better than I am.

Generally, I've discovered that it pays to play stupid and try to deny the other player any advantage he might have or offset it (and the longer he underestimates you the better, e.g. for using low tier units and little variety) rather than trying to beat him at his own game. For example, don't prevent what he's doing to you, just do something nastier to him. If he's putting up a challenging micro match, just allow him his little show but prepare a strategic surprise. If he always manages to spam more units than you, then get some buffing/debuffing or, better still, make sure he's stuck with crappy units at a more advanced stage of the game.

Generally, don't try to match him in whatever he's doing, try something else. Even if you simply disorient him and change the situation for him, you will be foiling his plans and possibly making his cash investments go to waste. Sometimes it also pays to be decisive, even if randomly, just as long as you don't waste time picking targets, inflicting pure economic loss is still better than sitting around (although hitting strategic buildings to send him back to stone age is better still).

Hard to say more without having played SC2 yet. I'll have to get it finally, I'd just flunk a degree if I got it now.

Offline WhiteRice

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 22 November 2010, 17:47:07 »
I pretty much quit sc ii. Just finished Fallout 3. Probably going to start Assassin's Creed Brotherhood next.

Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 23 November 2010, 07:00:27 »
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood sounds interesting for a month or two.

If it only wasn't a Ubisoft game. Can't stand those *******s...

Offline guilleguillaume

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Getting my butt handed in SCII
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 23 November 2010, 09:15:42 »
When playing AC 2 they just erased my hole savegames from their servers and stole my ilussions. I just lost a lot of hours played with the most perfeccionist attitude... I couldn't play anymore to their game just because I feel hurt from this action, I didn't receive any asnwer to my questions or my support, well done guys.

Since then I hate Ubisoft.
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 November 2010, 09:18:34 by guilleguillaume »