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Author Topic: Keyboard advice  (Read 5425 times)

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Offline baggiez

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Keyboard advice
« on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 17:39:55 »
Gamer of 6 years, got a gaming setup on the go.

Good PC, mx518, puretrak mousepad, 120hz LCD and a stock keyboard. I've had this keyboard for the best part of 6 years and it still works fine.

However, I recently got into Starcraft II and I feel like it's holding me back. I'm getting frequent beeping from holding down too many keys and the keys are really quite heavy.

I'm looking for a keyboard:
- preferably mechanical
- scissor-switch (laptop-esque ideally)
- able to press multiple keys simultaneously (key rollover I think?)
- reasonably priced (£50 or less)
- don't care for flashing lights or gimmicks

Any suggestions?
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Offline baggiez

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 18:02:19 »
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Offline didjamatic

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 19:42:16 »
I worked on one on an afternoon that was connected to a Zeiss eyeball medical machine and I really liked it. I had no issues with switches binding.

If you like scissors, you'd probably like the ML switches in the G84.  I might even have a black G84 in my garage, I can't remember if I sold it or not.
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IBM F :: IBM M :: Northgate :: Cherry G80 :: Realforce :: DAS 4

Offline Rajagra

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 19:44:06 »
Quote from: baggiez;239644
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/cherry-g84-4100lcmgb-2-ultra-low-profile-%28slim-line%29-wired-keyboard-ps2-usb-11-20-black

Thoughts on this?


Too cramped - keys are 18mm apart instead of 19mm and the plain rectangle-of-keys layout isn't good for gaming IMO.

If you want N-Key-Rollover at under £50 this may be the only option:
Filco ZERO Tenkeyless, NKR USA Keyboard

The switches it uses aren't the best of the best for typing, but I reckon these are probably a million times better than the average gaming keyboards that can cost a lot more.
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Offline laden3

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 19:56:16 »
IMO ALPS switches suck for gaming, they actuate even when ur fingers r resting on the keycaps and u need to fully release the switch to prevent unwanted keys registering. Probably just happen to me -.-
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I rrrove brrracks.

Offline celery

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 19:56:58 »
Just curious--what are you doing in SCII that is causing the computer to beep? SCII doesn't seem to require much in the way of key rollover. The beeping also might be caused by the keyboard buffer overflowing or triggering something like StickyKeys.

There aren't that many reviews of scissor switches here, but they're readily available on display at many retailers.
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Offline keyboardlover

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 20:26:56 »
Quote from: ripster;239655

I'd take a look at the Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide first and then maybe look at Das, Filco or Cherry Corp G80-3000 reviews.


The G80-3000 doesn't have NKey Rollover, so it won't do you much good for gaming. Realforce is another good choice (although more expensive than Filco and Das). They're not expected to be available in the UK until November though.
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Offline Lanx

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 27 October 2010, 23:58:06 »
i have the m84 (second mech i got) and it's a nice little keyboard it's the same exact size as a netbook. I have 2, one for my media pc cuz it's nice and small and the other i put for my fiancee cuz i changed her desk and the keyboard tray is smaller.

I have also modded a cherry brown keyboard and wow the g84 is a BIG difference, the switches aren't bad, better than membrane, about the same force as a cherry blue, but they feel mechanical mushy lol.

I was using it for a while until i needed my ergonomic option back,  but once i tried cherry browns, the 84ml was ugh (but still better than the mushy membrane, and better than abs1).

idk if you'd want to game on it, it is ps2, i have no idea on nkro on it who knows, but it just doesn't feel like a keyboard for daily useage.
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Offline baggiez

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 05:44:13 »
Quote from: Rajagra;239668
Too cramped - keys are 18mm apart instead of 19mm and the plain rectangle-of-keys layout isn't good for gaming IMO.

If you want N-Key-Rollover at under £50 this may be the only option:
Filco ZERO Tenkeyless, NKR USA Keyboard


This keyboard looks very similar to one a friend recently bought but they paid over £100 for it. What justification is there for double the price?
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Offline Kairxa

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 05:52:50 »
Maybe your friend bought the other version of Filco, which using Cherry switches. That keyboard use White Alps switches.
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Offline keyb_gr

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:02:22 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;239681
The G80-3000 doesn't have NKey Rollover, so it won't do you much good for gaming.

Gaming != gaming. From what one reads here, a FPS may benefit from it but many other types of games (including RTS) wouldn't.

That aside, a G80-3000 has an IBM-style matrix, and there's much worse out there.
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Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Shuki

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:39:57 »
Quote from: baggiez;239737
This keyboard looks very similar to one a friend recently bought but they paid over £100 for it. What justification is there for double the price?


The difference will indeed be the keyswitch.

I think the cheap version has very heavy switches (85g) which is very much on the stiff side.

By comparison my Filco keyboard has cherry brown switches which have a 45g actuation.
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Offline Kblavkalash

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:51:23 »
I am wondering how good are blue cherry switch keyboard in Starcraft?
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:56:20 »
Since no one else bothered to suggest it:
The MS Sidewinder X4 meets all your requirements. But it isn't mechanical. It does however have the scissor-like switches, 11KRO and costs beloe 50 bucks.

It also has a bunch of gimmicks like backlighting, media keys and macro keys that you don't care for :)

Unfortunately, there is no mech board below 50 bucks. Particularly not one with 6KRO or NKRO.

If you want to dip into this area of keyboard excellence you should have a look at the aforementioned Filco and/or Das keyboard. Price will be clearly over/around 100 pounds though.

The probably best thing for you from reading your desires would be a topre/hhkb but those are way out of your price range and you might be just as happy with a Das or Filco.
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woody

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:57:10 »
Quote from: ripster;239655
The G84 has problems with off center keypresses. Not really recommended around here - nobody has even reviewed it.
G84-4100 is not a bad keyboard at all. I posted few pictures and overall opinion, but no review because I suck at writing.

Initially I bought it as a second keyboard, and it was sitting on a far end of the desk, but it gradually replaced the diNovo Edge I was using (because of the integrated touchpad with scroll). Once it became my main keyboard, I started some search what's currently offered and found GH and got the Filco blues - I blame Ripster and his sig for this.

The off-center problem of G84 I probably hadn't experienced before I read it up on GH. Could be my way of using it. I did some FPS gaming on G84, and can't complain at all, but I am gaming for recreational purposes, not competitive.

EDIT: I can't remember what KRO the G84 had.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 October 2010, 07:01:19 by woody »
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 06:57:21 »
Quote from: Kblavkalash;239750
I am wondering how good are blue cherry switch keyboard in Starcraft?


excellent

I tried blues and blacks. Blacks were kind of a disaster for RTS. Blues are excellent, plain and simple excellent. Probably the best switch type for RTS (brown of course as well, might even be better if you play on LANs or are annoyed by the clickyness).
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Offline baggiez

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 07:10:18 »
Quote from: Kblavkalash;239750
I am wondering how good are blue cherry switch keyboard in Starcraft?


Why would the extra noise help?
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Offline itlnstln

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 07:17:30 »
Quote from: ripster;239655
The G84 has problems with off center keypresses. Not really recommended around here - nobody has even reviewed it.

Watchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

One of my early reviews.  I have a different opinion of them now.*

Oh, and you forgot Manyak's, too



*I would almost recommend writing reviews after you have tried all the switches.  It gives you a better frame of reference.  Everything is awesome compared to rubber domes.
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woody

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 07:31:56 »
Quote from: itlnstln;239762
One of my early reviews.  I have a different opinion of them now.*

Care to share? You're definitely right that one's subjective opinion changes with the sample bin increase.
________
Iron Duke engine
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 February 2011, 14:08:11 by woody »
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Offline itlnstln

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 07:42:54 »
They're (MLs) OK for short-throw switches, but, as mentioned, they don't take off-center presses well.  They're a little stiffer than I would like, but not bad.  The 4100 series layout is a little weird to get used to, but it makes for a great laptop external 'board if the HHKB is little out of reach.  They're also cool to have for a backup, beater 'board when you need one since they don't take up much space.
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woody

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 09:00:07 »
Hell, I used the 4100 full-time for some good period and kinda liked it. The thing I couldn't get accustomed to was the funny DEL and ~ position. I have to get it out of the cupboard and try it again now that I'm fine with the Filco.
________
Kahuna
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 February 2011, 14:09:00 by woody »
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Offline Arc'xer

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 14:34:32 »
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;239753
excellent

I tried blues and blacks. Blacks were kind of a disaster for RTS. Blues are excellent, plain and simple excellent. Probably the best switch type for RTS (brown of course as well, might even be better if you play on LANs or are annoyed by the clickyness).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETT6IHqR5D4

This guy's finger must be ready to fall off using the mx black.
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Offline Azuremen

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Keyboard advice
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 28 October 2010, 22:08:03 »
Quote from: Kblavkalash;239750
I am wondering how good are blue cherry switch keyboard in Starcraft?


100+ APM here and I play on Blues with no issues. Certainly an improvement from my old membrane keyboard as well. Just feels good to type and gameon, but I know some people have some qualms with gaming on Blues.
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