Mechanical kb for office

[yuriylsh]

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum and new to mechanical keyboards as well. Just recently (5 days ago) I bought Unicomp SpaceSaver and I am loving it. This is my first mechanical keyboard and I am really enjoy typing on it.

The first thing I noticed about the keyboard is how comfortable it feels. The first thing that my wife noticed about this keyboard, though, is that it is loud. This is not an issue as I use the keyboard in a separate room where my typing sessions do not bother anybody.

It is all good, but now I would like to use a mechanical keyboard where I spend most of my time typing - at work (I am a software developer). Unfortunately I do not have a privilege of sitting in a private office, so the loudness of the SpaceSaver rules out any possibilities of using it in my cubicle. So I have to find some alternative mechanical keyboard to use at work. I hope that you can help me with this.
As I said, I only have experience with a buckling springs keyboard, so I do not have any preferences with regard to others switches simply because I have not tried any of them. I do like the tactile feedback though, so probably Cherry blacks is not an option for me. So let me list what I am looking for and hopefully you can help me in my search and I really appreciate any help:

• Tactile - I will be using the keyboard only at work and therefore only for typing, no games whatsoever
• Relatively QUIET - by quiet I mean quiet enough to not bother people sitting in next cubicles. I understand that it probably will not be as quiet as my current MS Natural Ergo Keyboard 4000 (rubber dome), but still I need something that my co-workers will be able to tolerate (even better is they will not notice any change in ambient noise of the office :biggrin: ).
• Price - under $100. There are 2 options for me - to ask my employee to buy me a new keyboard and because of some procedural stuff it needs to be under $100. One the other hand I might want own the keyboard (haven't decided on it yet) and in this case I would prefer as cheapest option as possible (and I do not mind buying used keyboard on ebay - for example I saw Dell AT101W really cheap, but I have no idea how if it is too loud to use at work place or not even after watching youtube videos and listening to audio clip on this forum). So depending on my options I will buy it myself if it is under $50, or ask my employer to buy it if it is in $50-$100 range.

Thank you for any help!

[muchadoaboutnothing]

If you can bend the $100 barrier, you can get a Silent DAS keyboard after student discount (assuming you have family/friends that would use their student IDs to purchase it with the student discount) for $103.

Cherry Browns aren't silent like a rubber dome, but the sound difference isn't huge- and they're quieter than the MX Blues.

If you could put up with some clicking (Metadot allegedly claimed that everyone around the office uses DAS' - I BELIEVE I read that on a post here. Might have been when Phadreus got the review unit and was emailing back) I'd recommend the Rosewill RK-9000 for $82 after coupon on Chiefvalue. Blues click, but they're a lot quieter than buckling springs.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Sounds to me you need Tactile Non Clicky which is the Cherry MX Browns.

But if that is not quiet enough for you, then the only other choice i can think of is the Topre realforce or HHKB 2. And the Topre's are incredibly expensive.

[yuriylsh]

Thank you for quick reply! Any request for supplies over $100 (even $101) uses another rout which I really do not want to use because... well, many reasons that are not interesting to anybody (office policies), and I am not willing to spend this amount of money personally.

Does you suggestion mean that Cherry browns a quiet enough to use at office? Or is a Silent DAS quieter than average Cherry browns and thus should good for me?

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I used Cherry Browns at the office without issue.

DAS' Cherry brown implementation isn't quieter than other Cherry Brown implementations.

With the $100 price point so firm it's tough to make a recommendation. As far as office purchases go, must all purchases be made via company funding, or can you get recompensed? If you can buy it yourself and get reimbursed:

1) Buy it with student discount through friends/family
2) When you submit the bill for compensation, round it down to $99.99
3) Eat the remaining $3 yourself.

[yuriylsh]

Sounds to me you need Tactile Non Clicky which is the Cherry MX Browns.

But if that is not quiet enough for you, then the only other choice i can think of is the Topre realforce or HHKB 2. And the Topre's are incredibly expensive.

The problem is that I do not know if Cherry browns are quiet enough or not because I have never touched any keyboard with Cherry browns. This is why I am asking you, more experienced people to give me advice about it. I understand it will be somewhat subjective (the keyboard might be quiet enough for somebody's ear  to recommend it to me, but drive somebody's nuts at my office), but it is still much better than just randomly buy keyboards.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

The problem is that I do not know if Cherry browns are quiet enough or not because I have never touched any keyboard with Cherry browns. This is why I am asking you, more experienced people to give me advice about it. I understand it will be somewhat subjective (the keyboard might be quiet enough for somebody's ear  to recommend it to me, but drive somebody's nuts at my office), but it is still much better than just randomly buy keyboards.

Again, I use them fine in an office environment. They aren't that loud unless you're absolutely hammering the keys like crazy.

Perhaps you would consider getting an MX11800 with browns off of eBay. Used, but about $50 shipped.

[sixty]

I work from from home so I don't have to deal with this type of problem.

As previously suggested going with a MX Brown keyboard will probably be the best solution for your situations, though MX Blues might pass too.

On this topic: I am not a fan of Metadot, but their marketing is really great. I just checked out their website and the Accessories section gave me a good laugh:



Nice trolling, I like that.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

On this topic: I am not a fan of Metadot, but their marketing is really great. I just checked out their website and the Accessories section gave me a good laugh:

Nice trolling, I like that.

Effective, but it has also deterred some people I've talked to into purchasing a mechanical out of fear that the racket will be unbearable, or thinking that noise is the sole benefit of mechanicals.

[yuriylsh]

I used Cherry Browns at the office without issue.

Thank you, it is good to know!

As far as office purchases go, must all purchases be made via company funding, or can you get recompensed?

Hmm, actually, this is something I have to find out. I'll ask about it this Monday.

[KillerBee]

Is an northgate omnikey too loud?

[yuriylsh]

Perhaps you would consider getting an MX11800 with browns off of eBay. Used, but about $50 shipped.

This is interesting. Not sure if I'm a fan of the trackball, but it is still an option.

P.S. Why on the earth does the iRocks KR-6230 have such wiered placement of the '?/' key? Otherwise would be a solid candidate for purchase....

[Shawn Stanford]

I'm a coder and I use a Model M at work, and I have for years. Once upon a time (10 years ago), we all had IBM desktops. When they started replacing them with a series of Dells, I held on to my keyboard (I wish I'd held on to everyone else's keyboard as well). Now, I'm the only one in the place not typing on rubber mush.

Your coworkers will get over it...

Just tell them you're starting to get RSI and someone recommended that keyboard as a preventative.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

The problem is that I do not know if Cherry browns are quiet enough or not because I have never touched any keyboard with Cherry browns. This is why I am asking you, more experienced people to give me advice about it. I understand it will be somewhat subjective (the keyboard might be quiet enough for somebody's ear  to recommend it to me, but drive somebody's nuts at my office), but it is still much better than just randomly buy keyboards.

The best way to test via sound of keyboard is to use MrInterface's keyboard review site.

http://www.mrinterface.com/


He has demos, utube videos and a short review for pros and cons.

[Senor_Cartmenez]

Don't know how the availability is in the US.

A Cherry g80-3000 is available with cherry browns and costs around 50€ here.
I am currently trying to get one at work but they want to check on it first with the IT dude. Apparently I talked too much about how awesome and much better mechs are and now that I requested one, they are deliberating whether it's ok to get it because "everyone might want one" .............

facepalm

[MyNameIsDan]

Don't know how the availability is in the US.

A Cherry g80-3000 is available with cherry browns and costs around 50€ here.
I am currently trying to get one at work but they want to check on it first with the IT dude. Apparently I talked too much about how awesome and much better mechs are and now that I requested one, they are deliberating whether it's ok to get it because "everyone might want one" .............

facepalm

Company's gotta save monies.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

A Cherry g80-3000 is available with cherry browns and costs around 50€ here.
I am currently trying to get one at work but they want to check on it first with the IT dude. Apparently I talked too much about how awesome and much better mechs are and now that I requested one, they are deliberating whether it's ok to get it because "everyone might want one" .............

facepalm

Doctor's note saying that you need a mechanical for ergonomic reasons.
Bingo, your excuse for the IT guys to not buy everyone a new keyboard.

[steeef]

Here's another vote for the Compaq MX 11800. I'm using it in the office now. It's a good introduction to Cherry MX Browns, and it only set me back $40. The trackball doesn't get in the way, just ignore it.

My only gripe is the layout of the function and navigation keys. I don't think I'll keep it as my main keyboard, but it gave me a good reason to save for something better like a Filco with the same switches.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Don't know how the availability is in the US.

A Cherry g80-3000 is available with cherry browns and costs around 50€ here.
I am currently trying to get one at work but they want to check on it first with the IT dude. Apparently I talked too much about how awesome and much better mechs are and now that I requested one, they are deliberating whether it's ok to get it because "everyone might want one" .............

facepalm

Just tell them, you won't tell if they don't.

So only you and the IT guys get it. Screw everyone else :lalala:

[yuriylsh]

Thank you all for replies! It really helps.
So far based on your recommendations I think I will try to get my hands on a keyboard with Cherry brown switches. If I don't like browns, maybe I'll stick to Shawn Stanford's recommendation :biggrin:

P.S. I had a chance to spend more time with my mechanical keyboard this weekend and now when I'm back to my workplace with the rubber dome keyboard it feels just horribly mushy. I do not understand how I previously could think that it is a good keyboard!

[itlnstln]

I also throw in a vote for the Compaq MX-11800.  You may even be able to find some old POS 'boards with Cherry browns in a less-"exotic" layout.  I wouldn't expect to much of anything NIB under $100, though.  Sometimes, good stuff will pop up for cheap (MX SPOS), but it's pretty rare.  That said, I would save up for something that you will really like.  Remember, this is a well-used tool, here, not just something you going to crank out a couple of e-mails on a lazy Sunday afternoon with.

[CeeSA]

Don't know how the availability is in the US.

A Cherry g80-3000 is available with cherry browns and costs around 50€ here.
I am currently trying to get one at work but they want to check on it first with the IT dude. Apparently I talked too much about how awesome and much better mechs are and now that I requested one, they are deliberating whether it's ok to get it because "everyone might want one" .............

facepalm

which modell do you mean? which location?
in germany you got clear, black und blue.... but no brown

plz make me knowing
i think the cherry G80-3000 LQC is knowdays with cherry clears - am i right?

[Senor_Cartmenez]

on the german site of cherry corp the distinguish the g80-300 by the following three switch types:

linear --- clearly this is black switches
klick druckpunkt (click pressure point) --- clearly this is blue switches
soft druckpunkt (u get it) --- not so clearly this is brown switches

Now that you mention it the last one could be clear switches as well I guess. But then again that prolly wouldn't be "soft druckpunkt" but "hard druckpunkt" because cherry clears are supposedly taking more force to press (can't confirm never had one, mr interface's STB will correct hat hopefully ).

So the ones with "soft druckpunkt" should be cherry brown switches.

The model description on the cherry corp site would be:
Cherry G80 3000 LQCEU-0 (or -2 for the black version)

This would be the cherry g80 3000 with mx browns and US-English layout (with Euro symbol). Don't be irritated by the "EU" in the model description I guess that's because it comes with the € button. Probably just to stick it to the americans, just so they know who's boss (and what currency along with it)

/edit
if you want to know what color switch the LQCEU with "soft pressure point" uses, you could always just contact cherry, if you heard they use clears as well... sounds rather odd though, the only board I know using clears is the Deck Legend tactile. then again, my mech board knowledge is very limited. Some others here could probably cite 10 boards using clears off the top of their heads

[muchadoaboutnothing]

soft druckpunkt (u get it) --- not so clearly this is brown switches

So the ones with "soft druckpunkt" should be cherry brown switches.

Cherry US calls the MX Browns their "soft tactile" switches so I'd say that's a reasonable assumption.

[Wavey]

I really don't think there would be any issue with using the cherry browns. I actually used the browns as a stepping stone with my co-workers to go to the blues, which are much louder and people got used to really quickly.

[CeeSA]

thanks for the information, i go for the G80-3000 LQC

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Any of those doubleshots :/ ?

[yuriylsh]

Finally decided to buy browns on my own, even would step a little above $100 price range. Turned out Filco Tactile Touch are out of stock...
I do not have an access to anybody with student ID, so Silent DAS would be $135 for me which is not bad, but I do not like that it is glossy, so I will hold off on this one for some time.
iRocks KR-6230 seems almost perfect (compact and relatively cheap) except the weird placement of the ?/ key.
Is it about time to look at blues (seems like there are more options)? Are they much louder than browns (let's put it this way: are they closer to BS or browns)? Is there difference in tactile feedback between blues and browns?
Somebody who tried Cherry switches and buckling springs, where whould you put browns and blues on the loudness scale where rubber dome is 0% and BS is 100%?

Again, I appreciate your help!

[bilbo3000]

I bought a Cherry G80-3000 LQCDE-0 / 02 a few weeks ago at German amazon. It definitly has Cherry clears inside. It really is sad: No cheap browns for us poor Germans

I will probably give it to my dad as a christmas present because the clears are too stiff for my taste.

[yuriylsh]

Have you looked at the "Geekhack Mechanical Keyboard Guide" yet?

Yes, I have. Actually, maybe I looked at too much guides, reviews and videos because now I'm totally confused. Some reviewers say that blues are not really that loud (whereas the wiki gives an impression that they are actually louder than BS). At the same time Dell AT101W seems very loud to me based on videos and some reviewer says that it is indeed loud and just a little quieter than BS (whereas the wiki gives an impression that it should be much quieter).  So call me completely lost. Seems like you tried almost all of them, what is your take on it?

[woody]

Depends on mounting, keyboard case, desk under it, whether keyboard is on legs, etc.
________
Suzuki GSV-R

[yuriylsh]

Depends on mounting, keyboard case, desk under it, whether keyboard is on legs, etc.

This is what I thought. And that is why I resorted to asking people who have hands-on experience to bring some light on the topic.

[yuriylsh]

Really though you should listen to sound samples like this - ones that all have the same recording setups are best.

Yay! This looks helpful, thank you!

[itlnstln]

Any of those doubleshots :/ ?

Go check the Cherry wiki.  I think you should know the answer to that by now.

[Lanx]

blue's are pretty damn loud, especially if you hear them being typed and used like a regular keyboard. Browns are nice but will not be anywhere near the sound noise of a ergo4k. Still i don't think browns will be an issue, my room is relatively quite, my pc is a monster tower that is on silence, so really the only thing that makes lots of noise is the HEPA air filter. An office environment is louder than a HEPA air filter i'm sure.

[itlnstln]

My new office is pretty quiet.  Even my Realforce is pretty noticeable.  Nothing like a Model M, mind you, but you can hear it a cube away.

[Doober]

Get the cherry MX11800. I am also new to mechanical keyboards, but i went from my White ALPS to these cherry browns, and it does seem quieter also the feel is amazing. I picked up my KB for 30shipped off ebay about a week ago used but looked brand new. GL, and one of the biggest contributors to how loud you are when you type is how hard you bottom out, or if you bottom out at all.

-doober

[yuriylsh]

I finally pulled the trigger and ordered DAS Professional Model M Silent. Was going back and forth between DAS and Filco Majestouch. The main argument against Filco was that is not in stock and I hate to wait. The main argument against DAS was it's glossy finish. Both are minor issues, but "Usually ships in 1 to 2 days" keyboard won (so far...).

But what I did not think about is that Filco has tenkeyless option. So I wanted to ask (thanks for the metadot's return policy I still want to ask :smile:) if there is noticeable difference in comfort when you use a mouse with and without number pad? What is your opinion on this?

[Wogrim]

I finally pulled the trigger and ordered DAS Professional Model M Silent. Was going back and forth between DAS and Filco Majestouch. The main argument against Filco was that is not in stock and I hate to wait. The main argument against DAS was it's glossy finish. Both are minor issues, but "Usually ships in 1 to 2 days" keyboard won (so far...).

But what I did not think about is that Filco has tenkeyless option. So I wanted to ask (thanks for the metadot's return policy I still want to ask :smile:) if there is noticeable difference in comfort when you use a mouse with and without number pad? What is your opinion on this?

I don't care about the number pad when it's mouse and keyboard, but when you go from that to typing the keyboard then isn't centered on you so typing is semi awkward (or your mouse arm is pretty far out if you keep the keyboard centered on you).  Unfortunately I need the number pad for some applications so I'll never get a tenkeyless board.

[Fwiffo]

You could get a separate number pad that you can stow away when you're not using it. Elitekeyboards carries a Filco one that goes nicely with their tenkeyless boards. There's also a Ducky tenkeyless that has a number pad on a second layer activated by the Num Lock. My laptop keyboard works the same way, so I bet it's not an uncommon feature.

[keyb_gr]

But what I did not think about is that Filco has tenkeyless option. So I wanted to ask (thanks for the metadot's return policy I still want to ask :smile:) if there is noticeable difference in comfort when you use a mouse with and without number pad? What is your opinion on this?

Depends on how often you alternate between keyboard and mouse. Generally, however, keyboard-mouse alternation distance is a non-negligible factor in ergonomics and comfort, so I'd consider a "tenkeyless" board with separate numpad the best option for a pretty large target group (right-handed people with right-handed mouse usage, and it's not too far off for left-handed people with right-handed mouse usage).

If there were any tenkeyless board with, say, Cherry blues, a light-colored case and high-contrast dye sublimated / double-shot keycaps, I'd be all over that. (A tenkeyless version of the Unicomp Spacesaver would be very nice, too.)

[woody]

If there were any tenkeyless board with, say, Cherry blues, a light-colored case and high-contrast dye sublimated / double-shot keycaps, I'd be all over that. (A tenkeyless version of the Unicomp Spacesaver would be very nice, too.)

Amen.
________
Daihatsu Sirion

[Lanx]

But what I did not think about is that Filco has tenkeyless option. So I wanted to ask (thanks for the metadot's return policy I still want to ask :smile:) if there is noticeable difference in comfort when you use a mouse with and without number pad? What is your opinion on this?

Well in terms of ergonomics if i don't notice a change then that is actually better for me, i'd rather not notice anything than notice pain. When i hacked the keypad off my ergo4k and started using it the "travel" distance between my right hand was significantly shortened.

I went through a lot of "testing" i guess since i really didn't want to hack off the keypad! so much pain and i use it for data entry.

after a few months of useage i don't think i'd ever go back to a 104 keyboard option tho if that helps.
just like i'd never go back to a non negative slope ergo keyboard or sit on a wooden kitchen chair at the computer anymore.

[washuai]

The MSFT 4000 is longer than a Cherry G80-8200 (longer than regular full size 104 key).  If you don't have any problems using a mouse with your 4000, then you won't have any problems using it with a full size mechanical.

I personally cannot used a keyboard longer than a full sized Filco without mouse pain.  I even tried a mouse bridge, which totally helped, but it allowed me to get into other bad pain creating positions. However, ergonomics are very unique to each person.  Getting a number pad, is cheap, compared to buying a tenkeyless on top of a full sized board.  I'm with Lanx, I'm not going to buy a full size board (unless the number pad is detachable), ever again.

The MX11800 is short enough, but it sounds like you've decided to shell out more for what you really want (always the better solution, since you're going to be using this for many hours for years).

[yuriylsh]

The MSFT 4000 is longer than a Cherry G80-8200 (longer than regular full size 104 key).  If you don't have any problems using a mouse with your 4000, then you won't have any problems using it with a full size mechanical.

I would not say that I have big problem using 4000 with the mouse, but I've never used a keyboard without a numpad though, so I can not compare. I do notice that I feel a little more comfortable when I'm using the mouse with my laptops, at least with regard to hand's travel distance. But it is not really apple to apple comparison, so I decided to ask this question.

I personally cannot used a keyboard longer than a full sized Filco without mouse pain.  I even tried a mouse bridge, which totally helped, but it allowed me to get into other bad pain creating positions. However, ergonomics are very unique to each person.  Getting a number pad, is cheap, compared to buying a tenkeyless on top of a full sized board.  I'm with Lanx, I'm not going to buy a full size board (unless the number pad is detachable), ever again.

Seems like those who used a tenkeyless keyboards are not looking back to full sized keyboard... Hmm... Well, I'll get my DAS tomorrow, we'll see, maybe it makes sense to send it back and order tenkeyless Filco instead (backorder, to be more precise...)

The MX11800 is short enough, but it sounds like you've decided to shell out more for what you really want (always the better solution, since you're going to be using this for many hours for years).

One of the things that I made me perfer DAS over Filco is USB hub built into DAS, but unfortunately for whatever reason which I still cannot comprehend they put it on the right side. Why? What the reason? I hate when notebook manufacturer put USB ports only on the right side (ultraportables), but at least you have a touchpad there, so probably not that many consumers use a mouse. But with a desktop keyboard, which is used with a mouse on the right side by the majority of users, why put the USB ports on the same right side?..

[patrickgeekhack]

Your coworkers will get over it...

Just tell them you're starting to get RSI and someone recommended that keyboard as a preventative.

I totally agree that the colleagues will get over it. Let me describe my current office situation as well as past office situation.

I was using an ABS M1 for a while, which is pretty loud. I have also used a Dell AT-101W. It turned out that I was worried for nothing about making my coworkers going crazy. The Dell seemed loud to me until someone has to used my computer for a few minutes. I went into the other cubicle to listen to the relative loudness. The sound was actually not loud, but nice to the ears. Then I moved to blue Cherry G80-3000. No one said anything. Currently  I am using a Das Model S. I prefer blue Cherry over brown Cherry because they are much more tactile.

[zefrer]

What if there are no cubicles like most office spaces in Europe? I think the situation would be pretty different then. There are some particularly heavy handed typists at work and even on the rubber domes it is annoying.

[patrickgeekhack]

What if there are no cubicles like most office spaces in Europe? I think the situation would be pretty different then. There are some particularly heavy handed typists at work and even on the rubber domes it is annoying.

I think that even then, people will get used to the noise level, otherwise it will be hard to explain how people living close to railways manage to sleep at night. I've worked in such a situation and after a while, we just did not even notice each other's presence.

Some people will still notice the noise, but that's because they devote some attention to the source of the noise. Example: I am the only one who hear a particular noise coming from the glovebox area of my car, regardless if the radio was on or not. Once I have heard it, I just cannot go back not hearing it because I am always paying attention to it. Another example: I did not really notice the ringing noise every time a blue cherry switch is pressed and released until someone mentioned it. For quite some time, I just could not get passed it. Then I started to paying attention to it and it went away.