Author Topic: First Mechanical Keyboard  (Read 9220 times)

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Offline vorter

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First Mechanical Keyboard
« on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 21:49:40 »
So for the past couple days i have been researching mech boards.
Here is my situation, I play FPS games (Counter Strike, Call Of Duty) almost my entire time of computer usage (90%) and I type the other 10% of the time.
I have never tried a mechanical keyboard before, and I am deciding of getting a board with Cherry MX Blues, browns, or blacks. Im leaning towards the Razer BlackWidow with its blue switches. I press keys down moderately hard and i don't mind any clicky sounds. (But I am worried that it will get annoying)

EDIT: I am also considering the Majestouch Brown or the Das Keyboard Brown.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 November 2010, 22:49:16 by vorter »

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #1 on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 22:56:02 »
Hey vorter, welcome to Geekhack! You seem to have some good choices there. Since you game, make sure whatever you get has at least 6 key rollover.

Offline vorter

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« Reply #2 on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 23:06:22 »
Thanks, I have narrowed it down to 3 boards. Each with a different switch and 6+ NKRO.

Das Keboard Model S Professional Silent ----- Browns
Razer Black Widow               ----- Blues
SteelSeries 7g/6gv2               ----- Blacks

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #3 on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 23:12:03 »
Welcome to Geekhack.

I've been comparing my Rosewill keyboard (Cherry MX Blues) to my SteelSeries 6Gv2 (MX Blacks) for FPS games, mostly UT2k3 and UT3 at the moment, and I'm starting to realize I prefer the Black switches a bit more for FPS games. Not entirely sure the reason yet; I think it has to do with how quickly I can dodge on them with a bit less lift.

Not to say the Blues aren't great though, I've done plenty of gaming on the Blues as well. Both feel amazing compared to a membrane keyboard so you'll have no complaints regardless.

And Ripster is correct on the Razer board being "Gamer Optimized" by basically have some roll over optimization in the WASD cluster.
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Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #4 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 01:43:19 »
Quote from: vorter;243634
But I am worried that it will get annoying


I thought this at first, so I was aiming for something with brown switches.  Then I found an old clicky mechanical keyboard or 3 in my parent's storage and built one solid one out of the 3.  The click doesn't get annoying at all, it just gets more awesome.  I'd like to try browns someday, but I'm set on getting blues now.
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline tonyklo

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« Reply #5 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 04:01:26 »
I can't really game on a mechanical so i had to go with the Microsoft X4 ...which is pretty damn great for its price...

otherwise, i would probably pick SteelSeries 6Gv2.... or Filco black :P

Offline Dobbs2010

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« Reply #6 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 04:45:10 »
Das

Offline fuzzybyte

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« Reply #7 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 06:06:43 »
just dont get blues switches for gaming. very bad. very clunky.
it is very hard to push down repeatedly a button with blues (think of a fire button or such).
blues only good for normal typing and such.

browns are a good compromise even tough it has too light weight keys IMO, very easy to push down buttons accidentally.
i dont have any experience with blacks.


filco majestouch brown (or maybe black) tenkeyless GO
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 06:14:03 by fuzzybyte »

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #8 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 06:55:12 »
Quote from: fuzzybyte;243728
just dont get blues switches for gaming. very bad. very clunky.
it is very hard to push down repeatedly a button with blues (think of a fire button or such).
blues only good for normal typing and such.

browns are a good compromise even tough it has too light weight keys IMO, very easy to push down buttons accidentally.
i dont have any experience with blacks.


filco majestouch brown (or maybe black) tenkeyless GO


Keyboard... for firing? Wut games are you playing?

Like I said above, the blues work fine for the most part. I find the slightly faster double tap you can get with them nice in UT because of dodging, but that is about it. For StarCraft, I actually prefer the Blues because of the tactile response when they actuate.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline fuzzybyte

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« Reply #9 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 07:33:04 »
Quote from: Azuremen;243737
Keyboard... for firing? Wut games are you playing?

Like I said above, the blues work fine for the most part. I find the slightly faster double tap you can get with them nice in UT because of dodging, but that is about it. For StarCraft, I actually prefer the Blues because of the tactile response when they actuate.


the problem is that reset point is way higher than the actuation point, so you have to let the key all the way up before hitting it again, which makes repeating feel like ASS.

see these pics



Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #10 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 07:44:37 »
Quote from: vorter
Thanks, I have narrowed it down to 3 boards. Each with a different switch and 6+ NKRO.

Das Keboard Model S Professional Silent ----- Browns


Browns are the best compromise for both typing and gaming...if you do both in any large capacity I'd go with browns. I would reccomend topre if you could afford it, but prices have gone sky high recently.

Offline vorter

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« Reply #11 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 07:46:22 »
Okay, so the Black Widow doesn't seem that good anymore. (I'm still open to blues)
I am planning to go for the Das Keyboard, but im wondering if there are any other browns that are illuminated.

Offline fuzzybyte

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« Reply #12 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 07:52:13 »
Quote from: vorter;243751
Okay, so the Black Widow doesn't seem that good anymore. (I'm still open to blues)
I am planning to go for the Das Keyboard, but im wondering if there are any other browns that are illuminated.




Deck has too
http://www.deckkeyboards.com/

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #13 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 08:06:46 »
I've always been curious about the Deck with cherry clears, since they're 55g like 2 of my Topre's...but they cost nearly as much as my Topres so I just couldn't justify it. Plus I would never use the backlighting.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #14 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 08:11:25 »
If someone gets the Deck with clears, a thorough review would be nice!

Offline vorter

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« Reply #15 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:07:19 »
Is anything known about the Das Silent? Im probably going to buy that one as a middle ground.

Offline Kairxa

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« Reply #16 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:23:19 »
I hate when people says that blues are bad for double tapping AND they only provide theoretical images instead of their experience :/

Hey vorter, if you hate to clean your boards, forget about Das or Blackwidow. Browns are very light, blues are clicky, blacks are super heavy but unique. I think, for 90% gaming, just buy the blacks. If you can try the three of them before you actually buy them, that will be great.

Offline RickyJ

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« Reply #17 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:25:07 »
Quote from: vorter;243991
Is anything known about the Das Silent? Im probably going to buy that one as a middle ground.

Lots, what do you want to know?

NKRO via PS/2, 6-KRO via USB
Cherry Brown switches, plate-mounted as usual
Laser-etched keys
Same manufacturing supplier as Filco
Glossy keyboard case finish, fingerprint magnet
Currently GMMK Pro: lubed 68g U4T, FR4 plate, extra gaskets, etc

Offline vorter

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« Reply #18 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:44:59 »
Quote from: Kairxa;243999
I hate when people says that blues are bad for double tapping AND they only provide theoretical images instead of their experience :/

Hey vorter, if you hate to clean your boards, forget about Das or Blackwidow. Browns are very light, blues are clicky, blacks are super heavy but unique. I think, for 90% gaming, just buy the blacks. If you can try the three of them before you actually buy them, that will be great.


Anywhere I can test out mech boards except Frys (too far away)?

I may get the steelseries but would you say that the black keyed 6gv2 or 7g is good as a starter/first mechanical board? That I won't try it and say "Oh, mechanical boards suck."

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #19 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:45:35 »
Quote from: fuzzybyte;243745
the problem is that reset point is way higher than the actuation point, so you have to let the key all the way up before hitting it again, which makes repeating feel like ASS.

see these pics


Holy crap, I never read the wiki, EVER, when I was researching what keyboard to get. Good thing you linked me to these pictures I've never seen.

/sarcasm
 
I own Blues. I own Blacks. I understand the different you are talking about first hand. Please stop using pictures to tell I don't know what I am talking about. Thank you.

Quote from: Kairxa;243999
I hate when people says that blues are bad for double tapping AND they only provide theoretical images instead of their experience :/


Basically.

Like I've said, I game on both Blues and Blacks and they both work great. Dodging is SLIGHTLY easier on Blacks, but I do in on accident because there is no tactile response or variance in the actuation and release points. It took me some time to reduce my frequency of accidentally double tapping.

Honestly, this notion that "Blues are bad/terrible/impossible for gaming" needs to stop. Even people on OCN have very few issues with it, and they still think the G15 is a nice keyboard....
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
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Offline Kairxa

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« Reply #20 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 19:56:56 »
Quote from: vorter;244010
Anywhere I can test out mech boards except Frys (too far away)?

I may get the steelseries but would you say that the black keyed 6gv2 or 7g is good as a starter/first mechanical board? That I won't try it and say "Oh, mechanical boards suck."


Err, wish I know about the place :D I live far far away from you :(

My friend had a 6Gv2 and so far, he's impressed with it. For gaming and a lil bit typing.

Or maybe you can apply for the STN Project ;)

Quote from: Azuremen;244011
Honestly, this notion that "Blues are bad/terrible/impossible for gaming" needs to stop. Even people on OCN have very few issues with it, and they still think the G15 is a nice keyboard....


It means that OCN's mech keyboard guide has successfully trolled thousands of people.

Offline vorter

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« Reply #21 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:17:49 »
Quote
Or maybe you can apply for the STN Project ;)
STN project?

Okay, so right now im torn between the Brown Das, and the Black Steelseries.
Which one would give me the best experience or feel of what a mechanical keyboard is?

Offline Fwiffo

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« Reply #22 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:24:22 »
They're both pretty good quality mechanical keyboards. Filco is probably the most popular brand around here (among keyboards you can still get new).
You can call me... Keyboard Otaku... or not quite...

Offline Kairxa

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« Reply #23 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:24:36 »
STN Project

Actually, for me, the best experience of what a mech keyboard is what blues gave me. Both of them has their own uniqueness ;)

Offline fuzzybyte

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« Reply #24 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:33:23 »
I don't know what this OCN guide is. This is how I feel after using both blues and browns side to side for about 2 years now.
I could see blues being decent for strategy games like Starcraft, but only average for any fast paced game requiring to press and release the same buttons on quick succession. I have experienced this problem mainly in Shmups and 2d platformers.

Just please try quickly pressing and releasing keys repeatedly on any blue switch kbd and you'll see how you have to bring your finger all the way up to be certain that it will actually click as you press it again. You can get used to this by adjusting your style of releasing a key, but still, having to bring your finger all the way up from each key press takes more time than is necessary on for example browns.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 20:43:56 by fuzzybyte »

Offline vorter

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« Reply #25 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:05:16 »
Filco Majestouch or Steelseries 6gv2?
Ugh, I can't decide on anything.

Offline aegrotatio

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« Reply #26 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:06:46 »
I own the Das Pro Silent and I highly recommend it.
Daily Drivers: Ducky DK1087XM || DSI ASK-6600 || Rosewill RK-9000 BL, BR, BL, and RE || ABS M1 || Das Keyboard Silent || HHKB Lite and Lite 2 || DSI Big Font (kids love it)
Yearning for: Any ALPS keyboard || Any tenkeyless mechanical keyboard
Permanent collection: Poker Blue and Brown || Adesso MKB-125B || SIIG MiniTouch Geek Hack Space Saver || Chicony 5181 Monterey Blue || Chicony 5191 Clone Cherry Blues || Key Tronic 3600 || Unicomp Endurapro & SmarTrex || A crate of IBM Model M and Model M Space Saving boards || NeXTstation Slab || Amiga 3000 || BTC-5100C black and beige || SIIG MiniTouch Plus black and beige
Retired collection: SIIG MiniTouch Monterey Blue || Razer BlackWidow

Offline vorter

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« Reply #27 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:17:10 »
Okay, so now its either
Das S Silent Brown or Majestouch Brown/Black
soo much to decide on....

Im not to sure if I should use brown or black
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:21:43 by vorter »

Offline Fwiffo

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« Reply #28 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:23:32 »
I think that most people here would suggest that, if in doubt, brown is a safer choice.
You can call me... Keyboard Otaku... or not quite...

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #29 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:42:08 »
Quote from: fuzzybyte;244032

Just please try quickly pressing and releasing keys repeatedly on any blue switch kbd and you'll see how you have to bring your finger all the way up to be certain that it will actually click as you press it again. You can get used to this by adjusting your style of releasing a key, but still, having to bring your finger all the way up from each key press takes more time than is necessary on for example browns.


Yes, I am aware of this. It seems like you still haven't read that I use a Blues board all the time and I am aware of this. I just don't think its any where near as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. You talk of Blues in the tune of Doom and Gloom for gaming that requires rapid keystrokes. You still have double tapping in SC2, to jump to locations etc. Again, I've had no issues.

The 1mm of travel you have to raise your finger isn't life changing, like you are making it out to be.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline vorter

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« Reply #30 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:44:17 »
Thanks for the tips everyone.
I have decided to preorder the Das Model S Professional Silent.
I can cancel before the 22nd if I change my mind.
There is a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so if I don't like the keyswitch I can get a board with blacks and if I don't like the board itself, I can get the Filco Majestouch in browns.
Now im just wondering if the Das Model S is reliable. How often does it break down?
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 November 2010, 21:55:40 by vorter »

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #31 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 09:27:35 »
Think of it like a car. so long as you clean and recalibrate the switches every 5,000 keypresses, you should be fine.

Just kidding. I actually have no idea regarding the Das build quality =)

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #32 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 09:44:09 »
Cherry blues suck for gaming and typing.
  • I die in L4D on blues because blues don't release where they activate.
  • I scroll too far in browsers because blues don't release where they activate.
Anyone who thinks differently is obviously a fetid chunk of lard who never tried Cherry blues, because I'm the only human being ever to try Cherry blues for gaming and typing.

That being said, I love my XArmor U9BL. I'm also a part-time masochist.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #33 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 10:08:17 »
Quote from: ripster
My kid PWNs in LFD on his Buckling Spring.
But he's good.  Goooood.


Leet skills. Makes a father proud eh?

Offline vorter

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« Reply #34 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 21:35:23 »
After reading reviews about browns, im concerned ill accidentally press buttons. I rest my fingers on wasd but not too hard. What is the average actuation force of membrane keyboards they ship with computers?

Also, if I switch from membrane to the browns, is it probable that my typing speed will go down? (my avg is around 70 WPM)


BTW i hate TF2. CSS for the win!

Offline Azuremen

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« Reply #35 on: Mon, 08 November 2010, 23:48:02 »
Quote from: vorter;244493


BTW i hate TF2. CSS for the win!


More like CS 1.6 FTW.
Filco Tenkeyless Tactile Click ~ Kinesis Professional ~ White label Model M ~ DX HHKB Killer
Mionix Naos 5000 ~ Logitech Mx518
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Offline zefrer

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« Reply #36 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 09:22:55 »
Quote from: vorter;244493
After reading reviews about browns, im concerned ill accidentally press buttons. I rest my fingers on wasd but not too hard. What is the average actuation force of membrane keyboards they ship with computers?

Also, if I switch from membrane to the browns, is it probable that my typing speed will go down? (my avg is around 70 WPM)


BTW i hate TF2. CSS for the win!


Concerns about accidental button presses are overstated in my opinion, I've never had that problem and my fingers are not exactly nimble and elf like in manner.

Nor will your speed go down, it should increase as you get more used to the switch (true for any switch type really).

Offline phate408

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« Reply #37 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 13:40:23 »
Quote from: vorter;244493
After reading reviews about browns, im concerned ill accidentally press buttons. I rest my fingers on wasd but not too hard. What is the average actuation force of membrane keyboards they ship with computers?

Also, if I switch from membrane to the browns, is it probable that my typing speed will go down? (my avg is around 70 WPM)


BTW i hate TF2. CSS for the win!

My typing speed went up a little.

And, it's ok. You're allowed to be wrong. TF2 is obviously a far superior game to CS (Source or 1.6).
« Last Edit: Tue, 09 November 2010, 14:45:34 by phate408 »
-Das Keyboard Model S Professional Silent
-IBM Model M 82G2383 (Lexmark 1996)
-Compaq MX 11800

Offline Lanx

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« Reply #38 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 13:52:13 »
Quote from: vorter;244493
After reading reviews about browns, im concerned ill accidentally press buttons. I rest my fingers on wasd but not too hard. What is the average actuation force of membrane keyboards they ship with computers?

Also, if I switch from membrane to the browns, is it probable that my typing speed will go down? (my avg is around 70 WPM)


BTW i hate TF2. CSS for the win!


like others have said, accidentally pressing browns must be ppl who are asleep at their keyboard cuz it is literally impossible to press browns if your just using normal resting positions, which is what basically everyone does anyway on the home row.
If this were true i'd see
asdf
jkl;
all the time and backspace, backspace till i went nuts, this has NEVER happened.

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #39 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 13:59:49 »
Well that changes everything! >.>

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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« Reply #40 on: Tue, 09 November 2010, 16:22:20 »
Quote from: zefrer;244601
Concerns about accidental button presses are overstated in my opinion, I've never had that problem and my fingers are not exactly nimble and elf like in manner.

Nor will your speed go down, it should increase as you get more used to the switch (true for any switch type really).


My guess is that accidental presses occur more often from muscle stiffness or trying to type faster than one really can than for any reason connected with the keyboard. I get them when the switch's "personality" doesn't agree with mine (most recent example: black alps... all's fine when I'm focused and keen and hit squarely, much less fun when I'm tired and distracted).

I suppose the best way to remove the problem of accidental hits is to get some real touch-typing training to improve one's accuracy instead of dealing with the whole ooops -> backspace routine. For example, I generally almost always know when I hit wrong and then I backspace all the way back and type again, which slows me down and frustrates me. If I could find the time and willingness to spend a full week learning to type better, I'd probably do away with most of it and acquire a +10 wpm bump or so. Some time I will simply have to because I'm paid by the amount of text and not by the hour in my current job (which is translation and in which a constant >400 chars per minute is profitable but >500 would mean roughly +25% income if not more due to being able to take some fast-paced jobs at all, as opposed to merely being able to process more pages in the same time).

For the record, I did notice a tendency to spam more chars per minute with the browns but with reduced accuracy than, say, blacks, that were also quite fast, although relatively taxing at some high speeds (e.g. at the highest speed blacks are probably better than Model M, but Model M is probably better than blacks at realistically sustainable speeds, from my point of view). Then again, switching to a compact layout keyboard from a normal one, you're bound to have accuracy problems.

Offline zefrer

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« Reply #41 on: Wed, 10 November 2010, 05:15:47 »
Was talking about accidental presses when just resting your hands on the home row, not when typing.