Question to HH owners.

[lam47]

Hey.
I'm wondering if there is a way to make a Happy Hacker feel like it did when new.
Have you noticed that the older they get the louder the top out of the keys are. Especially the space bar. On a new one it comes up with a lovely deep thunk. On older ones a plasticy clack. The bigger keys are worse but all seem a bit louder and perhaps looser.
Is it grease or what that makes a new one feel so good?
Anyone tried anything or am I being overly fussy
Kisses.

[TastesBetterOutdoors]

I don't know but on a similar note how durable is the membrane in the Topre switches?

Are we talking about a board that will last in great working order for 15 years or more, like I expect cherry switch boards to?

Sorry if this is a highjack but it seemed to be related.

[Arc'xer]

I don't know but on a similar note how durable is the membrane in the Topre switches?

I believe their lifespan is in the 25-30(+/-) million area; pretty much decades.

Technically speaking if topre ever decided to sell replacement mats they should last indefinitely as long as the components continue to work. Some have mentioned how topre services bank/airport topre keyboards and some are well worn with many years of use.

[lam47]

So do you think its the rubber?
A lot of them are separate too so its not just the one mat.
Dans fingers cant be as discerning as mine then

[patrickgeekhack]

So do you think its the rubber?

Could well be. If we stop and think about it, it's rubber which is put under stress. I can see why the feeling is going to be different after some time. I've noticed some difference between the first time I used my G80-3000 and now.

[didjamatic]

I definitely felt a difference in Topres after 3 weeks on a variable 87u.  It was less snappy and more rattly but not annoying.  I did not experience that on an all 55g with the same amount of time typing on it.  I type more than most people so my 3 weeks might be like someone elses 3 months or considerably longer.  Not bragging, just staying I type a lot.

The spring under it has so little resistance that I don't think it's much of a factor.  Ever felt them?  Your breath can partially compress the coils, really.  They are that light.  It's there for the capacitance in the switch, not for dome longevity IMO.

Hey Lam, you could try white lithium grease.  They use it from the factory on many of the keys that are stabilized, applied in the slider/stabilizer areas.

[chongyixiong]

To be honest, I've never really felt any huge difference in them either.. coming from a brand new HHKB Pro2 to a slightly used (3-5 months) HHKB Pro2.. but then again.. I don't type as much as you guys - maybe about 500-1000 keystrokes per day.

But lam, don't you enjoy that spacebar going kathunk, kathunk? It sorts of complements the sounds of the normal keys so it goes like thock, thock, kathunk thock thock thock.. what a harmonious melody.

As a matter of fact, if the typing surface where you place your keyboard is like solid wood, it tends to resound that typing sound louder than lets say, placed on soft fleshy parts like your lap (yes on your lap).

[ch_123]

o2dazone did a comparison of a new and used one. The old one was louder and felt different.

[woody]

Is the rubber mat in HHKB and Realforce the same? I can definitely expect slight change after break-in period, but change due use is more like rubber fatigue.

[patrickgeekhack]

o2dazone did a comparison of a new and used one. The old one was louder and felt different.

Speaking of o2dazone, he has not been active on the forums for a long time, has he?

[patrickgeekhack]

He's working on the next big thing.

Hasn't his site been on construction for a long time?

[lam47]

Grease might make the difference to the large keys. Would the yellowy lithium be ok? I don't have any white.
The difference is noticeable. My black one must be two years old. It does not get a huge amount of use as I tend to write on my typewriters. It has had more than an average PC board though.
The sound of the new ones is lovely. The sound on used ones is more rattle than thock.

[patrickgeekhack]

Grease might make the difference to the large keys. Would the yellowy lithium be ok? I don't have any white.

I don't know about lithium grease, but wouldn't silicone grease be a better option?

[lam47]

Silicone would be best but I don't have any. I will have a look tomorrow.
All I have is the yellow Lithium grease which I don't think is OK to use on plastic.

[patrickgeekhack]

Silicone would be best but I don't have any. I will have a look tomorrow.
All I have is the yellow Lithium grease which I don't think is OK to use on plastic.

Like Ripster said, I would not apply grease to a HHKB. However, if you have already decided that this is what you want to do, I would wait for until I can get my hands on silicone grease. Check out the car parts store. Silicone is sometimes used for the door rubber strip. You can also get silicone grease at diving equipment stores. Silicone grease is often applied onto the O-rings used in the regulators.

[lam47]

Yeah I wouldn't want to risk what I have. Just thinking it can't be rubber degradation as its the feel of the keys at the top of the stroke that is different. And the sound is the top out. It's louder and a more plastic sound than a new one. Got to be grease I would say. The downstroke and bottoming out of the keys feels the same.

[patrickgeekhack]

Yeah I wouldn't want to risk what I have. Just thinking it can't be rubber degradation as its the feel of the keys at the top of the stroke that is different. And the sound is the top out. It's louder and a more plastic sound than a new one. Got to be grease I would say. The downstroke and bottoming out of the keys feels the same.

I cannot recall if my Topre has always been like this or not, but the spacebar is indeed the noisiest of all the keys. This is a shame really, since everything else is pretty quiet. This makes for a very strange typing noise.

[itlnstln]

I think it might also be plastic wear.  I noticed on my last Filco that the key presses were a little frictiony.  After awhile, everything loosened up.  The plastic from the caps and the frame might wear a little, thus loosening the fit of the caps to the frame a little making a little noisier.  That said, I haven't noticed much change in my HHKB, but I also don't have a new one to compare it to.

[itlnstln]

Well said.

[jeyoung]

But lam, don't you enjoy that spacebar going kathunk, kathunk? It sorts of complements the sounds of the normal keys so it goes like thock, thock, kathunk thock thock thock.. what a harmonious melody.

While I am sure that a Chicony doesn't compare to a Topre, my new Chicony KU-8933 has the Topre sound sound at least So does my IBM KB-7953 (looks similar to the KB-9910).

Still eager to experience a Topre, though, even though if just to find out that it isn't my kind of thing.

[lam47]

I just opened it for to try a couple of things. grease is not the issue. lots still there in the right places and a good consistency. not the rubber either. I switched space for right alt. same sound difference compared to a new board. leaves us with plastic wear. no disable signs of degradation but what else could it be?