Mechanical Keyboard German Layout, please help me

[nodq]

Hi,

reading geehack.org for some Weeks now. Im searching for a Mechanical Keyboard with German Layout, BUT.

My first Choice would be a Filco, but the only Source for Filcos with German Layout sells the 104 Key Versions ( http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards#majestouch_104key )

I really wanna have the tenkeyless Version ( http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key )

So my Questions are, what would be a good alternative to the Filco? I looked at the Steelseries 7G but it has black switches, right? I need the Keyboard for SC2, WoW and some other Games. I don't care about typing, i can type with every Keyboard.

So is the 7G good or bad?

The Razer BlackWidow seems Bull****, its so ****ing loud with the Blue Switches.

What about using a US Layout on a German Windows 7? Is it ****ty, or okay? Because of the "öäüß" etc. i could imagine it sucks.

Another point is, the Filco for example is sooooooo expensive as a German Layout Version (like 160 EUR)( http://www.amazon.de/Filco-Majestouch-Profi-Tastatur-Switches/dp/B003Y3S72I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289906969&sr=8-1 )
as much as i want a good Keyboard, but thats really really expensive!


So has anyone a good advice for me?
A very good rubberdome Keyboard would also be okay for me actually. But a a Mechanical would be better.


Thanks for the cool Board, greetings from Germany.

[godly_music]

The Steelseries 6G v2 is cheaper than the 7G, without extra USB plugs and the wrist rest, and otherwise just the same. I've been thinking about getting that one since it is great overall with no unnecessary extras. The only thing that they could do better is make them with thicker keycaps. Don't shy away from using a board with black MX switches, they are actually rather nice.

If you're in Germany, why not get a G80-3000? They are only about 45€ and NKRO is not really a must-have even for a gamer. You get the choice between black, blue and clear MX switches. Cherry's keyboards are not as heavy and sturdy as the more expensive ones, but I don't think that means they'll break.

[nodq]

The Steelseries 6G v2 is cheaper than the 7G, without extra USB plugs and the wrist rest, and otherwise just the same. I've been thinking about getting that one since it is great overall with no unnecessary extras. The only thing that they could do better is make them with thicker keycaps. Don't shy away from using a board with black MX switches, they are actually rather nice.

If you're in Germany, why not get a G80-3000? They are only about 45€ and NKRO is not really a must-have even for a gamer. You get the choice between black, blue and clear MX switches. Cherry's keyboards are not as heavy and sturdy as the more expensive ones, but I don't think that means they'll break.

Unfortunately there is no German Layout Version for the 6gv2. I asked Steelseries on Twitter for that, Answer was:
 
SteelSeries SteelSeries
@ As far as I know we don't have plans for a German 6Gv2, sorry  
SteelSeries SteelSeries
@ Sure it is - but we didn't really get any interest from that market on this one particular product.


Otherwise i would of course look for a 6gv2.

About the G80-3000, man really, i hate the look of this Keyboard, its so big and ugly.

But you say, black switches are okay? I saw so much People raging about black switches for Gaming, especially for RTS Games. Hmm i never touched a Mechanical Keyboard, so i can not compare.


greets

[godly_music]

You see the same pattern over at head-fi.org with the audiophiles. Differences, advantages, disadvantages, are often grossly exagerrated so they don't have to feel bad about shovelling thousands of dollars into their hobby. Consider that any mechanical keyboard will be superior to a rubber dome and that lots of gamers use rubber domes. Black MXes are fine.

The only other affordable alternative I can think of is the Raptor Gaming K1. That's just a G80-1800 variant with NKRO, some self-glowing keys and (possibly) a sturdier construction. Also black MXes.

[thcyash]

My first Choice would be a Filco, but the only Source for Filcos with German Layout sells the 104 Key Versions ( http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards#majestouch_104key )

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=751

[Rhaullan]

If you live in Germany, need a good keyboard for gaming (black cherries), small enough to fit on a normal desk, and is a good bargain:  Sixty is your man.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time before he jumps in this thread with some good advice...

Geduld haben.

[nodq]

You see the same pattern over at head-fi.org with the audiophiles. Differences, advantages, disadvantages, are often grossly exagerrated so they don't have to feel bad about shovelling thousands of dollars into their hobby. Consider that any mechanical keyboard will be superior to a rubber dome and that lots of gamers use rubber domes. Black MXes are fine.

The only other affordable alternative I can think of is the Raptor Gaming K1. That's just a G80-1800 variant with NKRO, some self-glowing keys and (possibly) a sturdier construction. Also black MXes.

Yeah right, i don't care much about NKRO, i don't need to press 20 keys at once. I never did and i never will. :=)

I just search for quality Keyboard which is good in feeling and looking, like Filco, but not THAT expensive. The SS 7G is at Amazon.de for around 90 EUR at the moment, thats why i consider buying this Keyboard. AFAIK the 6gv2 is just 10 EUR less expensive at the moment.

Hmm, 160 EUR for a Filco is crazy. maybe i will wait for the BlackWidow and compare the 7G and BlackWidow in a Store here. In Videos, the Blue switches were extremely loud imho.

And Razer with a good Keyboard? That would be new. haha

[nodq]

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=751

Yes thats the 105 Key Version, i know that Shop. It comes down to the same Price actually, around 150-160 EUR. I also prefer the tenkeyless Filcos. But they would also be very expensive... damn the shipping is as expensive as a whole Keyboard here at my Stores. Thats crazy.

But, thanks mate.

[godly_music]

You get the 6Gv2 for 62€, that's using geizhals.at (which you should either way).

[Senor_Cartmenez]

@OP

Filco Tenkeyless with GER layout is scheduled to be available at the beginning of next year from keyboardco.com

You can check out their sub-section on this forum for more details. No guarantees though, could be later.
Otherwise keyboardco.com is the best-priced source for a GER layout Filco Majestouch that I know of.

I think the alternative for you will be the Das Model S Silent.

http://www.getdigital.de

Costs you around 120€. Is on par with the Filco in terms of quality.
The "Silent" model uses Cherry Browns. The normal model uses blues. Since you were annoyed by the noise and play RTS, the browns are probably the right switch for you.

/Edit

If a good rubber dome is also fine for you, I can suggest the Sidewinder X4. You could use it until the start of next year and get that Filco Tenkeyless from keyboardco when it comes out. But the Das is just as good as the Filco, plus it has a USB hub and (the ones from getdigital.de have) media keys. On the downside it has that shiny surface which can get annoying but it's ok imo.

[2084]

I use a US Layout since I started programming, since it's far superior to the German Layout. Keys such as [] {} /\ <> are much more easier to type on the US Layout since you don't have to use the ALT-modifier.

Whenever I want to type german Umlauts I just quickly tap ALT+SHIF - it's really no big problem öäü

But you might not like the short enter key, but you can try the UK layout, which has a 'normal' shaped enter

[woody]

But you might not like the short enter key, but you can try the UK layout, which has a 'normal' shaped enter

I'd say the former one is the 'normal' enter.

[2084]

That's why I added the apostrophes

[woody]

Fair enough.

[nodq]

You get the 6Gv2 for 62€, that's using geizhals.at (which you should either way).

As i said, there is no 6gv2 with German Layout. And Steelseries said they are not planning on releasing one. (twitter quote)

And, the next trustable Shop at Geizhals.at/de is Mindfactory, and a 6gv2 there costs 69 EUR + 11 + 2 EUR Shipping = 82 EUR. As i said, 93 EUR for a 7G at Amazon without Shipping Costs. Imho its worth 11 EUR for the extras of the 7G?

Filco should really expand to EU Countrys HAHA

Anyways, thanks for the help so far guys. Hopefully someone will come up with a good Idea to get a Filco for like 50% less Money. =)


greets

[nodq]

I use a US Layout since I started programming, since it's far superior to the German Layout. Keys such as [] {} /\ <> are much more easier to type on the US Layout since you don't have to use the ALT-modifier.

Whenever I want to type german Umlauts I just quickly tap ALT+SHIF - it's really no big problem öäü

But you might not like the short enter key, but you can try the UK layout, which has a 'normal' shaped enter

Ah right, ALT+Shift, how does that work exactly, im asking because US Layouts have small Enter Key etc. Keys are little bit different as Germans, right? You sure you can use all German specific Keys? Sorry, i just don't know, never used US Keyboard.

[FoxSpirit]

For Starcraft you don't really want blacks. Too bad Blues are too noisy for ya, a Blue MX G80-3000 from Cherry can be gotten for below €50 and works mighty fine. Also good because it's an inexpensive first step to mechas to see if you can actually appreciate it before you spend more.

That said, as Senor_Cartmenez already mentioned, German FILCO tenkeyless are on their way and will likely find their way to us sometime in February :smile:

I am waiting.

[nodq]

For Starcraft you don't really want blacks. Too bad Blues are too noisy for ya, a Blue MX G80-3000 from Cherry can be gotten for below €50 and works mighty fine. Also good because it's an inexpensive first step to mechas to see if you can actually appreciate it before you spend more.

That said, as Senor_Cartmenez already mentioned, German FILCO tenkeyless are on their way and will likely find their way to us sometime in February :smile:

I am waiting.

You see, thats what i meant, first guys says, blacks are good/okay, mechs are always better than rubberdomes doesnt matter which switches.

Now you, saying blacks suck for SC2. But i also heard people saying, blues are bull**** for SC2 also. So, i really guess it depends on personal liking? Or are there special things which makes black unusable for RTS Games? Compared to a robberdome of course.

Ah btw. i need a Keyboard in the next days, i really can not wait until February, my old Keyboard is ****ed up.

[2084]

Ah right, ALT+Shift, how does that work exactly, im asking because US Layouts have small Enter Key etc. Keys are little bit different as Germans, right? You sure you can use all German specific Keys? Sorry, i just don't know, never used US Keyboard.

Those are about all the differences between the layouts. Red is the german layout.
Oh and ^ and ° on the top left instead of ` and ~

[Rajagra]

• Buy a U.S. or U.K. tenkeyless board. (Get the latter only if you really want the 7-shaped Enter and the extra key next to Left Shift.)
• If you got the U.S. board, use Keytweak or Sharpkeys to remap an unwanted key to act as the missing key next to shift. Suitable choices would be Right Windows, the 'Menu' key, Scroll Lock, or even Caps Lock.
• Leave Windows set to use the German layout. You now have a German keyboard, despite what is written on the key caps.
• Put stickers on any keys where the legends are wrong. Better yet, print out an image of the German layout and refer to it as needed, you will learn it off by heart soon enough.

Don't let a few silly key markings deprive you of the joy of tenkeyless.

[nodq]

• Buy a U.S. or U.K. tenkeyless board. (Get the latter only if you really want the 7-shaped Enter and the extra key next to Left Shift.)
• If you got the U.S. board, use Keytweak or Sharpkeys to remap an unwanted key to act as the missing key next to shift. Suitable choices would be Right Windows, the 'Menu' key, Scroll Lock, or even Caps Lock.
• Leave Windows set to use the German layout. You now have a German keyboard, despite what is written on the key caps.
• Put stickers on any keys where the legends are wrong. Better yet, print out an image of the German layout and refer to it as needed, you will learn it off by heart soon enough.

Don't let a few silly key markings deprive you of the joy of tenkeyless.

Yeah that sounds very good to me. Thank you very much Sir. I guess i will watch out for a great Filco then (us). Thanks for the Advice.


Edit: ****... elitekb does not have filco browns in stock. and i calculated again, even without German layout its just 20 EUR less... i still have to pay around 135-140 EUR. Sigh so much Money. I can not afford that. So i guess i am back to the SS 7G or maybe 6gv2 US layout.

[woody]

Show Image

those are about all the differences between the layouts. Red is the german layout

y <--> z?

[2084]

Yea, guess I already got so used to the layout I forgot the most obvious key.

[FoxSpirit]

You see, thats what i meant, first guys says, blacks are good/okay, mechs are always better than rubberdomes doesnt matter which switches.

Now you, saying blacks suck for SC2. But i also heard people saying, blues are bull**** for SC2 also. So, i really guess it depends on personal liking? Or are there special things which makes black unusable for RTS Games? Compared to a robberdome of course.

Ah btw. i need a Keyboard in the next days, i really can not wait until February, my old Keyboard is ****ed up.

There is nothing that makes blacks unusable for anything but since they compare to the Clears, they are pretty heavy. I had a Cherry Clear and sold it just about a week later.

For Starcraft the light action of Cherry Blue/Browns is awesome, you can doubletap so speedily, it feels great. Never had any double/mutlitapping issues with my blues, always hit it without a problem. But since you are going for browns, this is nonvalid anyway since their reset point is right where the actuation point is.

You could get a G80-3000 with blues, a tad noisy but inexpensive and feels great. Also well resellable in case you decide to go for a brown FILCO later.

[Zen]

If you ignore the "Y"-"Z" issue,
Danish ("Nordic") and German layouts are reasonably similar ..





That is how I have chosen to "solve" the key-cap compatibility-issue

(Incredibly, we have harmonized cucumbers, tomatoes and potatoes but KEYBOARDS ??)

[nodq]

There is nothing that makes blacks unusable for anything but since they compare to the Clears, they are pretty heavy. I had a Cherry Clear and sold it just about a week later.

For Starcraft the light action of Cherry Blue/Browns is awesome, you can doubletap so speedily, it feels great. Never had any double/mutlitapping issues with my blues, always hit it without a problem. But since you are going for browns, this is nonvalid anyway since their reset point is right where the actuation point is.

You could get a G80-3000 with blues, a tad noisy but inexpensive and feels great. Also well resellable in case you decide to go for a brown FILCO later.

Actually i ordered a Steelseries 7g Yesterday, 90 EUR Amazon without shipping cost. I will return it if Black Switches suck in SC2. Of course i will compare to default robberdome Keyboards, so my guess is, that i will like the Blacks. If they suck completly, i will return and buy a 20 EUR Keyboard again until Filco has tenkeyless with German Layout in Feb. Until that Date i can save some Money so that i have these 150 EUR for that Keyboard.

I think a US Layout is not the way i will go, really thought about that some hours, but don't like to have a US Layout.

But much Thanks for all Advices so far, and help of you guys, great Forum.
I will report back after some Sessions with the SS 7G and my Opinion on Black switches compared to robberdome and how it works in SC2. :=)

[lowpoly]

I like black Cherrys.

Also, check out the U.S. international layout on Wikipedia. I'm happy with that. Alt-Shift didn't work for me, I hit it accidentally all the time.

Otherwise, ANSI > ISO layout for many reasons.

[Rajagra]

Don't forget U.S. International without dead keys.

[Ekaros]

As i said, there is no 6gv2 with German Layout. And Steelseries said they are not planning on releasing one. (twitter quote)

And, the next trustable Shop at Geizhals.at/de is Mindfactory, and a 6gv2 there costs 69 EUR + 11 + 2 EUR Shipping = 82 EUR. As i said, 93 EUR for a 7G at Amazon without Shipping Costs. Imho its worth 11 EUR for the extras of the 7G?

Filco should really expand to EU Countrys HAHA

Anyways, thanks for the help so far guys. Hopefully someone will come up with a good Idea to get a Filco for like 50% less Money. =)


greets

German-layouts are still easy compared to some like Finnish-one... There is non-ISO Steelseries and now sold-out Filcos, also Topres, but that is it...

Hmm, if only Cherry made some too for real layouts

[Ekaros]

If you ignore the "Y"-"Z" issue,
Danish ("Nordic") and German layouts are reasonably similar ..

Show Image

That is how I have chosen to "solve" the key-cap compatibility-issue

(Incredibly, we have harmonized cucumbers, tomatoes and potatoes but KEYBOARDS ??)

Even, North-Europe can't agree on keyboard layout...

Regional letters I can understand, but why do "Nordic" and "Nordic" have to be different on other than ÖÄÅ...

[nodq]

Got my SS 7G today. First Typing Session i must say, wonderful feeling, really nice, i was using flat keys since years, notebook keys etc. first KB without flat keys since dunno... 8 years? but it feels really great. short backspace key sucks... but okay who cares.

Black switches do not seem crappy in gaming (WoW and SC2) but as is said already, i cant compare to brown or blue. but even blacks are "loud" so im sure it would annoy me heavy with blues.

But now i am addicted to mech KBs and i wann test cherry browns!

ah btw. one Question. Is it normal that the Keys can be taken off really easy? with just 2 Fingers?`I guess yes? Kinda have the feeling that its to easy ^^

So SS 7G = top
black switches are great maybe not better than browns etc. but they re by FAR better than every normal Keyboard, so.

greets

[Zen]

Even, North-Europe can't agree on keyboard layout...

Regional letters I can understand, but why do "Nordic" and "Nordic" have to be different on other than ÖÄÅ...

Yeah, it's pretty far out considering the EU is perfectly capable of harmonizing license-plates,cucumbers,potatoes and tomatoes ..
But strangely we still have like 1500 different bags for vacuum-cleaners and 40+
European layouts .. I'm glad not to be a keyboard-producer for that reason!