Looking for a Cherry keyboard with MX switches

[mondalaci]

Hey guys,

I was earlier looking for a similar keyboard with more specific features but I'm willing to make a compromise regarding cost vs features so this time I'm only looking for a Cherry keyboard with MX switches.

Again, the closer the keyboard is to Hungary the better it is regarding shipping costs.

Your answers are much appreciated.

Thanks,
Laci

[itlnstln]

Good luck!


But in all seriousness, good luck!

[mondalaci]

itlnstln: Thanks, but is it that hard to find Cherries nowadays?  If so, why?

Thanks!

[itlnstln]

If you are looking for Cherry-made keyboards, they are hard to find (maybe not as much so in Europe), because Cherry, for whatever reason, doesn't cater to consumers.  You may want to check out PCHome (see PCHome thread) as they are more readily available in Asia.  I have a G80-3000 with browns that I got from company here in the US called DataCal, but they no longer sell them.  I also have a G80-1863 with browns, but it was used and came from a guy who bought it in Asia.  Keyboardco.com in the UK has some Cherry 'boards, too, but I don't know what layouts they have.

OTOH, if you are looking for 'board from another manufacturer with Cherry switches, there are plenty of those.  Keyboardco.com would be a great place to start as they specialize in European versions of Filco 'boards.  PCHome stocks Ducky, but I think they only have ANSI layouts.

[mondalaci]

I wonder whether these keyboards have MX switches:

* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=196
* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=197
* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=575

I don't have a clue.

[Lanx]

cherry keyboards just happened to be the donor boards for my mod projects, i find their casings to be sub par.
like itln said maybe look for other makers who use cherry keyswitches?

[mondalaci]

Lanx: I won't use the keyboard that I will order.  We're designing a high-end mechanical keyboard and I wanna see the difference between Cherry and Costar keycap stabilizers.  (The former is said to be better.)

That's why I want a Cherry board.

[CeeSA]

unfortunately these superblooking boards have no MX but ML switches.

I wonder whether these keyboards have MX switches:

* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=196
* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=197
* http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=575

I don't have a clue.

[woody]

G84-4100 have ML switches. These should be the same.

[itlnstln]

Hell, if you just want something to tear apart, grab something like a Compaq MX11800 or a Cherry MX11900 off of eBay (or equivalent).  Look for part numbers starting with MX-xxxxx or G80-xxxxx.

[mondalaci]

Thanks guys!

I think I'll rather go with a G80-3000.  There are some distributors not far away from my country.

[mondalaci]

itlnstln: Hm, I may take your advice.  If anyone got a link from ebay.de, don't hesitate to let me know.  Thanks!

[Lanx]

i've torn apart two cherry g80-8200 for my mods. you can see my current mod if you like in the mod section for the ripping apart. I've never had anything other than cherry stabilizers but they're pretty awesome.

[mondalaci]

Lanx: And I've never had anything other than Costar stabilizers which are told to be inferior to Cherry stabiliers.  Could you please link your mods?  I cannot seem to find them.

[mondalaci]

Ripster: I *am* open to new stabilizers.  That's why I'm interested in Cherry stabilizers besides the Costar stabilizers (and I don't know about any other stabilizers for MX switches).  

I think you misunderstood me.

[mondalaci]

Ripster: Maybe I don't understand your analogy, but what's your experience with Costar vs Cherry stabilizers?

[itlnstln]

I would use whatever is easier to implement.  In typing, I really don't feel a difference.

[mondalaci]

itlnstln: Ok, thanks for the input.  Sturdiness is yet another quality I'm interested in regarding stabilizers besides user experience.

[mondalaci]

Ripster: Thanks for your opinion about Cherry stabilizers.  I'm pretty confident we'll choose them over Costar ones, even though I only saw them on pictures, but I'll see them in person shortly.

We have something other than double-shots or laser etched keycaps which is way more interesting I believe.

By the way, I plan to send you the first prototype as soon as we'll be ready because I couldn't find a more knowledgable person than you about keyboards, especially mechanical ones.

[itlnstln]

I have a bad habit of pulling Cherry stabilizers off the PCB.  Fortunately, they just clip right in.  I never had a problem with the Filco stabilizers.  YMMV, though.

[mondalaci]

itlnstln: Off the PCB?  I though they're plate mounted.  Maybe they can be be either plate mounted or PCB mounted.

[itlnstln]

Cherry does not use plate mounting for MX switches in their own keyboards.  Pretty much everyone else does.  I think Ducky has Cherry-like stabilizers, but they're not quite the same from what I understand.  To be honest, I don't think you could plate-mount the stabilizers if you use exact replicas.  There is a stabilizing bar, but it works the opposite of how a typical one would.  It's kinda hard to explain, but the way everything is mounted, I don't think you can use a plate.

EDIT: Yeah, what ripster said.

[mondalaci]

Thanks for explaining the mounting in detail, guys.

My ultimate question is: Are Cherry stabilizers only usable for PCB mouting?  If so, I'm really not interested in them because I consider plate mounting superior to PCB mounting.

[mondalaci]

Sorry Ripster, now I totally understand what you meant.

Using Cherry stabilizers for plate mounting scenarios seem unnecessarily cumbersome to me and it sucks big time from a repair point of view.  I really think they're better suited for PCB mounting.

It's probably also a bad design regarding water resistance.

I think that nothing should mount to the PCB if not necessary because it's much weaker than the plate.

[JBert]

So the downside is if you break  something on a plate mounted one you are royally screwed.  You can't replace them with a Filco style (different cutouts and spacing) and you can't get pull the stabilizer because the wire is underneath the plate  and the only way to remove the plate would be to unsolder every switch (it's not fun - I did that for a Kinesis keypad).

I've been pulling keys on a recent G80-3000. Quite frankly, I had almost damaged the stabilized switches rather than the stabilizers themselves (somehow the plunger would stick to the cap, meaning that I'd wiggle of the top cover of the switch).

So for the record: if you break a switch you are also SOL with a plate-mounted keyboard - this doesn't just apply for the stabilizer (but I guess you know this).

[keyb_gr]

The only additional difficulty with switches on plate-mounted boards is that they need to be unsoldered to access the internals in any case, while plate-mounted ones can be popped open in situ with the right kind of tools.

Is plate mounting superior to PCB mounting? Well, yes and no. Obviously mechanical stability is better for plate mounting, but the metal plate and the PCB will always have different thermal expansion coefficients, which means thermal cycling may lead to fractured solder joints in the long run. PCB-mounted Cherry switches seem to be anchored very well.

Speaking of solder joints, do not under any circumstances cut corners with the solder in this lead-free age. The cheapest stuff is very susceptible to fractures, which is not what you want in an environment with non-negligible vibration (user hitting keys). That, and mixing lead and lead-free components is a problem.
Soldering problems have always contributed to device failures, but things have become noticeably worse with RoHS, with bad soldering quality being more problematic than ever. Issues might surface after 1, 2 or 3 years where it would have been 10 or 20 in the olden days. Definitely a problem for inexpensive but relatively complex consumer electronics like cheap DVD players, where a repair usually is in no way economically feasible.

[mondalaci]

keyb_gr: Thanks for your deep insights!  The experience and knowledge of people around here really humbles me.

I can confirm the accessibility problem with plate mounted keyboards.  The plate must be removed to get access to the PCB, indeed.

Did any of you ever experienced any keyboard problems caused by the thermal coefficient difference between the PCB and plate materials?  It may be wise to choose a plate material whose thermal coefficient is close to PCB.

I'm not sure what you mean by "cutting corners" with the solder.  Could you explain it please?

Are you an electrical engineer by the way?

Thanks in advance!