Realforce Ergonomic Advantage (Over Filco Brown)

[notenoughkb]

Hey guys,

I currently have a Filco with brown cherries. I also have one with blue cherries that I'm in the process of selling because I prefer the lesser effort required to type on brown switches. The blue switches are definitely very fun to type on, but I find them a bit too much after prolonged typing (the sound and increased resistance gets to me after a while).

So long story short, I prefer brown switches to blue. Now, my question is, would I see a significant improvement in ergonomics and typing feel if I switch to a Realforce (or any topre-based keyboard for that matter)? Keep in mind, when I say "typing feel" I'm referring to the smooth, effortless feel of the browns; not the tactile, clicky feel of the blue switches.

Thanks .

[iMav]

If you love the browns (which are great, BTW), stick with them.  I personally like the Cherry browns better then the Topre switches...but use Topre switches every day because, even more so, I prefer the HHKB key layout.  

(if I was to go with a "regular" layout keyboard, I'd go with a Filco "mini" every time)

[notenoughkb]

Oh really? Hmm, wow thanks for the info. It was more just curiosity; I can't get enough of the browns but some people seem to give topre switches a god-like status so I've been wondering if it's worth the price premium lol .

Btw, how many posts did you have to make to get that "Site Admin" title?? O_o
(sorry, that was a joke >.>)

gnite.

[iMav]

Btw, how many posts did you have to make to get that "Site Admin" title?? O_o
(sorry, that was a joke >.>)

Maybe I'm just still really tired this morning, but I actually laughed audibly when I read that.  

[woody]

The recent posts of people describing the Topre's lack of tactile bump lessened my curiosity to a good degree. In other words, I got marginally richer.

EDIT: How's that for a surprising anti-GH effect?

[SirClickAlot]

Richer maybe, but at the cost of ease of mind ;-)

Because, you know, what keyboards to like and dislike is very much a subjective thing. In other words, what others might like, you might not and vice versa.
The few people stating they would buy cherry brown over topre should be set against the many others who don't. :-)

Regards.

[woody]

It's my own preference for tactile bump, not the subjective opinions Topre vs brownies.

[Azuremen]

If you love the browns (which are great, BTW), stick with them.  I personally like the Cherry browns better then the Topre switches...but use Topre switches every day because, even more so, I prefer the HHKB key layout.

Sounds like there needs to be a Cherry option in those kind of layouts. Perhaps an effort to attempt to revive the Miniguru is in order?

The lack of a tactile bump is what is keeping me from investigating a Topre board. I've come to love my Blues and Buckle Springs a great deal, and the "bump" in the Browns is almost invisible but still there to the discerning user. Perhaps a bit too soft for me though.

[woody]

The lack of a tactile bump is what is keeping me from investigating a Topre board. I've come to love my Blues and Buckle Springs a great deal, and the "bump" in the Browns is almost invisible but still there to the discerning user. Perhaps a bit too soft for me though.

Same boat.

[SirClickAlot]

I don't understand : ' Lack of tactile bump' . The Topre boards sure have a tactile bump..... *puzzle*

[woody]

Do they? I read on GH they don't. Looking at the curves I see a bump that is so wide in travelling distance and so small in force delta, that it seems hard to impossible to feel.

[SirClickAlot]

Do they? I read on GH they don't. Looking at the curves I see a bump that is so wide in travelling distance and so small in force delta, that it seems hard to impossible to feel.

Erm, I own 3 topre keyboards. They all have a bump all the way on top. Much heavier than a cherry brown..... The cherry brown hardly has a bump.

Are we having the same definition for a 'tactile bump'?


Regards.

[itlnstln]

Topres have a tactile bump, but IMO, it's in the wrong place.  I like the Cherry force curve better where the stroke builds to the tactile bump, and the bump is where the activation occurs.

[woody]

A bump is the obstacle that requires you to build up force to proceed further, then you get a decrease in required force (downfall), wishfully near switch activation. After that you go kinda linearly (or whatever) again up in force to bottoming out.

It serves you to know you have (nearly) actuated the switch and at the same time prevent unwanted effect from light touch.

MX brownies have a well recognizable bump, but you can miss it with heavy strokes.

[woody]

Are we having the same definition for a 'tactile bump'?

Perhaps not. "Bump" as in the force/travel curve. It's your tactile feedback on or about actuation. Added sound as in MX blues is the auditory kind of feedback.

itlnstln has the right bump. Or so his GF said.

[keyboardlover]

In short, it might feel better for you and it might not. Unfortunately the only way to find out is to buy one. If you don't like it, I'm sure you won't have a difficult time reselling it.

[itlnstln]

It might not really feel like a bump, but it usually looks like one on force curve charts.

[ironman31]

lol, This is why I like all enthusiast forums. In the end the only answer is: "I don't know, you'll have to just buy one"

[woody]

It might not really feel like a bump, but it usually looks like one on force curve charts.

Like I said, it's too wide and kinda short (as in height) visually, so could be beyond perception. And by your words, I get the feeling it precedes the actuation by far too much travel.

[itlnstln]

The Topre's "bump" is right at the top of the stroke, so you would be correct as the switch activates a little further down.  In the case of the Cherrys, the bump is roughly the activation point.

[patrickgeekhack]

Everything we say here about a particular keyboard or even a comparison between two keyboards is subjective. Like ironman31 has said, in the end, you'll have to try one to know for sure.

This is how I compare the brown and the Topre:

Topre
Most of the force required to get the keys moving are needed right from the beginning. After that, the keys are very light.

Brown Cherry
Less force is required than the Topre to get the keys moving. The force needed gradually increased until the tactile bump, the they keys become light.

Although brown Cherry is not my absolute favourite, I can say that it's the switch that cause th e less fatigue over a long period of typing.  Very springy and very nice to type on certain days.

[keyboardlover]

Big advantage of the Topre is it's quiet, has variable weighting (if you get the RealForce 87U), and has the best keys in the biz.

The 103U and 86U have variable weighting too...

[iMav]

Bottom line, if you love the Brown's and the layout of your Filco, it all a matter of whether you want to indulge your curiosity.

[patrickgeekhack]

Big advantage of the Topre is it's quiet...

I just wish the spacebar were a bit less noisy.

Bottom line, if you love the Brown's and the layout of your Filco, it all a matter of whether you want to indulge your curiosity.

Good point.

[woody]

Big advantage of the Topre is ... the best keys in the biz.

Ahem, careful with that. Best as in?

[kidchunks]

Bottom line, if you love the Brown's and the layout of your Filco, it all a matter of whether you want to indulge your curiosity.

The curiosity grows bigger with each purchase of a keyboard.
Looking to order one in the middle of next year. Should be enough time for me to try out a few diff boards. Don't know how I'll explain that purchase to people. They laugh when I told them I spent $111 on my GHSS hehe.

[woody]

Keycap, ok.

[elbowglue]

Big advantage of the Topre is it's quiet, has variable weighting (if you get the RealForce 87U), and has the best keys in the biz.

If you're not interested in any of that save your money and buy a couple of Filcos.

Topres are quiet (so are all domes), variable weighting is a detractor in my opinion.  Keys, yeah they are very nice feeling and looking however very hard to read black on black unless you're in a very bright room.  (oh my aging 35 year old eyes)

There is a diff also in plate mounted cherry browns and pcb mounted cherry browns, although no PCB mounted cherry browns are easily available for purchase.  PCB mounted cherry browns are much nicer esp. when you bottom out.

[itlnstln]

The variable weighting is so subtle, you don't even notice it when typing.  I think variable weighting gets a little over-played on GH, IMO.  You can feel it if you press keys in isolation, but in typing, you don't even notice it.

[elbowglue]

Actually I wish the whole topre was 45grams cause I love the snap of the 45gram switches.  The lighter ones don't snap as much.  My wife had the aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa problem, I never ran into that.

[kite]

I already plan on purchasing a Realforce Tenkeyless, just to see if i'd like it, as my second mech keyboard.. and i have not even purchased my first one!! Damn you all!

(Hope i didn't offend anyone Driving carefully, being a new member and not knowing what it takes to be hunted down with pitchforkes and very heavy, burning keyboards )

[keyboardlover]

(Hope i didn't offend anyone Driving carefully, being a new member and not knowing what it takes to be hunted down with pitchforkes and very heavy, burning keyboards )

That sounds like it would make a really cool scene in a movie.

[kite]

And i really need something for my bachelor of arts thesis

[patrickgeekhack]

And i really need something for my bachelor of arts thesis

You're writing a paper on keyboards?

[kite]

Heh no ^^ but i'm thinking about making a 2D or 3D animated short.

[patrickgeekhack]

Heh no ^^ but i'm thinking about making a 2D or 3D animated short.

Haha...I knew you were not writing on keyboards.

[ironman31]

I just wish the spacebar were a bit less noisy.

It's far less noisy than the filco's spacebar

[patrickgeekhack]

It's far less noisy than the filco's spacebar

We must have a different styping style for mine seems to be noisier than my Filco with brown.

[ironman31]

I might be hitting too hard

The Realforce's is much deeper though

[patrickgeekhack]

I might be hitting too hard

The Realforce's is much deeper though

I am also under the impression that the spacebar on the Topre requires more force than the spacebar on the Filco. The Filco spacebar has a brown switch just like the other keys on the keyboard. Because of this, I too tend to press a bit harder on the spacebar when I'm using my Topre.

[keyboardlover]

Ripster - what's the best way to remove a Topre spacebar without causing damage?

[itlnstln]

I gently lift one edge of the spacebar until it releases, then the other.  After both supports have released, I pull up in the center.  No muss, no fuss.   I think the Topre spacebar is much quieter than the Filco.  I still like the Filco spacebar the best.  Ka-chunk.