Introduction and buying advice

[heedpantsnow]

Hi, everyone, I'm a n00b here and would like to purchase my first mechanical keyboard in 25 years!

At my work I do ethnographic research, which requires a lot of typing.  I'm a computer engineer by education, and occasionally write a bit of code as well.

I'm also an American living in mainland China, so that affects my selection I guess.

My previous kb was a Logitech G15, which is okay but keys started to feel mushy and I never used the screen; in fact after I upgraded to windows 7 I never even installed the software.  I would prefer if my keyboard didn't need any software!

I work both at home and at an office, and in both places I need a keyboard that doesn't add too much noise to my fingers bottoming out the caps.  I wake up early and don't want to wake my kids, and at the office we have 3 of my employees all in the same office so I would prefer to not disturb them.

So, from my research and reading of wiki's, reviews, etc., it would seem to me that I need a kb that uses cherry brown switches.  Would you say that's right?

Here are some other thoughts:

I really love 'stuff' with a good feel of quality, so would love one that doesn't flex and creak.
I don't especially need a USB hub or gamer features.  I press at most 3 keys at a time.
I think I prefer sculpted over flat, but it's not a deal breaker.
There are many nice things to say about China, but it is not a clean place.  There is a lot of dust in the air, and your hands get real dirty doing just about anything.  So less glossy is better (both the key caps and kb body) and would love if it came with a roof/cover thingy.
Media keys…I really would only use volume controls and wouldn't miss them too much if it didn't have them.
I have a desktop and a laptop that I might be using it with, so it would be nice if it supported both ps2 and usb.

From a casual browse around the resident buy-everything-website, Taobao, there's at least a couple of models of all of these:   Filco, Dell, IBM Model M, Cherry, Steelseries, Ducky, Deck, DAS, PLU, HHKB, Jaki, Plum, Noppoo, I-rocks, Razer.

I'd like to not pay way too much for this; maybe there are even some models or brands that are cheaper here than most other places?  What do you guys think?

Here are some sample prices of what I saw (I mainly priced brown cherries, but if you guys think I'd be better with a different switch I bet the prices would be similar):

Decks are way expensive here (or maybe everywhere?)
Filco Majestouch (Brown Cherry, FKB104M/EB ) is about 680 RMB (US$102)
blackout Majestouch for 950 RMB (US$143)
DAS Model S Pro is about 950 RMB
Ducky 9000 (Brown) about 700 RMB (US$105)
Ducky 9008 (Brown) about 750 RMB (US$112, blackout for a bit more
Ducky 9008 (multi: blue, brown, black) for 850 RMB (US$127)
Cherry g80-3000 is about 650 RMB (US$98)
'Plum' and 'PLU' mechanical keyboards seem to be cheap, but never heard of them.
Noppoo - never heard of them but they have brn cherries, abs/laser keycaps, and look exactly like many of the others, but they are cheaper at around 450 RMB (US$67).  Anyone ever heard of them?

So, what do you guys think?  Are brown cherries the way for me to go?  What do you think about those brands and prices?

Lastly I did a search for mechanical keyboard (机械 键盘) and got random off-brand ones for less than US$10!  Is it even worth trying them?

Thank you so much for your help!

[elbowglue]

Welcome to geekhack!

For a quality keyboard that you won't dislike, consider the Filco keyboard.  Get tenkeyless if you prefer having your mouse more midline, get the normal 104 key if you use the numpad on a regular basis.

Ducky seems to be a good alternative to filco, although I have not used ducky personally so I cannot vouch for them.

If desk space is of concern, the layout of the Noppoo choc mini cannot be beat.  I have been lusting after this keyboard for some time (cannot obtain it in the united states without going through a broker)  The keyboard layout is very compact (almost HHKB, but with arrow keys).  If you decide to go with the Noppoo choc mini, you should buy 2 of them and I'll buy one from you

Best switch to try is the cherry blue if noise is of no concern (they can be loud), cherry brown if noise is of concern.

[Nadger]

Welcome to Geekhack.

The best switch to avoid the bottoming out noise is probably the topre switch due to its soft landing. They also have variable weight switches which makes them wonderful to touch type on.  But Topre switch boards are wtf expensive ($230+)

Browns are quiet, if you dont bottom out.  Not bottoming out requires time and a little effort.  You need to train yourself to stop pressing down as soon as you feel the tactile bump the brown switch gives off at the actuation point.  Though even if you do bottom out, they are not super loud.  Browns are also quieter on a plate mounted board, and even quieter with thicker keycaps, as they tend to have a more solid return sound instead of a slight vibration.

Leopolds/Archiss are plate mounted and have pretty thick keycaps.  We dont know the price for sure yet but we are guessing around $110.

Filcos are legendary for being excellent quality plate mounted boards and are very affordable.

A ducky with browns is another good plate mounted option if you want media keys.  However keep in mind you can use programs like Autohotkey to assign your own media keys to any keyboard.  The downside to that is, you are back to needing software installed to get that functionality.  But the duckys also seem to be aimed a bit more at gamers, so it would have features you wouldnt use.

Given what you said about china, id def go with a black keyboard, and i would stay away from razer and das.  Their glossy finish is horrible for dust/fingerprints/scratches

[laden3]

If you can understand Chinese pretty well, you can get more information out of
http://bbs.kbc-china.com/ (a lot of Ducky, Filco fans)
http://www.pcwaishe.cn/forum-2-1.html (a lot of Plu, Noppoo, Filco fans)
http://www.waishehome.cn/forum-4-1.html (on idea, not a frequent visitor)

Cherry and Filco (they usually swap the keycaps) are pretty popular there.
Ducky and Cherry have PBT keycaps (supposedly more durable).
Plu and Noppoo Choc Mini have POM keycaps and they are pretty cheap.
Steelseries and plum have large L-shaped enter.
Realforce... IDK, people seldom talked about it because it's pretty expensive (KBC is the official distributor in China)

[heedpantsnow]

Welcome to Geekhack!

Filco Cherry Brown  would be the safest choice.  Especially if the Ducky costs more than a Filco in China, which I find astounding.

edit: Oh, probably that price is the Non NKRO version.  Which is no biggie if you aren't a big gamer.

Thanks!

I was a little surprised about the price difference as well; are there such things as fake Filco keyboards?!

If that is the non-NKRO version, do you know how many simultaneous presses it will allow?  I use things like win+shift+N for OneNote, ctrl+shift+R for reply to all, etc.  Will it handle 3 at a time?

[heedpantsnow]

Welcome to geekhack!

For a quality keyboard that you won't dislike, consider the Filco keyboard.  Get tenkeyless if you prefer having your mouse more midline, get the normal 104 key if you use the numpad on a regular basis.

Ducky seems to be a good alternative to filco, although I have not used ducky personally so I cannot vouch for them.

If desk space is of concern, the layout of the Noppoo choc mini cannot be beat.  I have been lusting after this keyboard for some time (cannot obtain it in the united states without going through a broker)  The keyboard layout is very compact (almost HHKB, but with arrow keys).  If you decide to go with the Noppoo choc mini, you should buy 2 of them and I'll buy one from you

Best switch to try is the cherry blue if noise is of no concern (they can be loud), cherry brown if noise is of concern.

Thanks, and thank you for the advice.  I've looked quite a bit at the Choco Mini and despite the cheesy name and marketing, it actually looks pretty good.  Do you know anything about Noppoo as a company?  Are they legit?

Welcome to Geekhack.

The best switch to avoid the bottoming out noise is probably the topre switch due to its soft landing. They also have variable weight switches which makes them wonderful to touch type on.  But Topre switch boards are wtf expensive ($230+)

Browns are quiet, if you dont bottom out.  Not bottoming out requires time and a little effort.  You need to train yourself to stop pressing down as soon as you feel the tactile bump the brown switch gives off at the actuation point.  Though even if you do bottom out, they are not super loud.  Browns are also quieter on a plate mounted board, and even quieter with thicker keycaps, as they tend to have a more solid return sound instead of a slight vibration.

Leopolds/Archiss are plate mounted and have pretty thick keycaps.  We dont know the price for sure yet but we are guessing around $110.

Filcos are legendary for being excellent quality plate mounted boards and are very affordable.

A ducky with browns is another good plate mounted option if you want media keys.  However keep in mind you can use programs like Autohotkey to assign your own media keys to any keyboard.  The downside to that is, you are back to needing software installed to get that functionality.  But the duckys also seem to be aimed a bit more at gamers, so it would have features you wouldnt use.

Given what you said about china, id def go with a black keyboard, and i would stay away from razer and das.  Their glossy finish is horrible for dust/fingerprints/scratches

Thanks!  Yep, I think (and hope) that I will learn to type a little less violently (movie quote:  "I hope you don't screw like you type")!  I'm a little familiar with Autohotkey; I actually use Launchy for almost everything.  Good word about the Das and razer, I'll stay away from those for sure.

If you can understand Chinese pretty well, you can get more information out of
http://bbs.kbc-china.com/ (a lot of Ducky, Filco fans)
http://www.pcwaishe.cn/forum-2-1.html (a lot of Plu, Noppoo, Filco fans)
http://www.waishehome.cn/forum-4-1.html (on idea, not a frequent visitor)

Cherry and Filco (they usually swap the keycaps) are pretty popular there.
Ducky and Cherry have PBT keycaps (supposedly more durable).
Plu and Noppoo Choc Mini have POM keycaps and they are pretty cheap.
Steelseries and plum have large L-shaped enter.
Realforce... IDK, people seldom talked about it because it's pretty expensive (KBC is the official distributor in China)

Wow, great links!  My Chinese isn't amazing (~HSK 5) since I'm just a whitey but I can get around.  You seem familiar with a lot of the brands here that I haven't heard of; how would you rate the quality of Ducky, PLU, and Noppoo?

[BlueRain]

No idea about the quality of the Noppoo despite the amount of joke that GHers have thrown at it. I wanted to check it out personally, but not making any trips anytime soon.

In term of pricing in China, looking @ TaoBao, PLU/Noppoo would be the lowest price range (made in China), then Ducky (Taiwan), then Filco/Cherry.

[laden3]

IMO quality of a keyboard is a matter of personal preferences. Although looking at pictures and reading reviews help a lot, you won't know what you prefer until you try out the keyboards and switches physically (different people= different needs).
This will help
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Geekhack+WorldWide+Shopping+Links
It would be funny if you can call these guys too :biggrin:
http://bbs.kbc-china.com/thread-667-1-1.html

[heedpantsnow]

A quick update:
I went on taobao searching for Filco's, then filtered by city and found a couple of stores in locally with retail locations.  So I went to the nearby computer city and tested out several Duckys, Noppoo's, Cherrys, Filco's, and PLU's.  After twisting and shaking, typing, etc. on all of them, the Filco (and maybe Cherry) seemed far superior to the others.  The others were rattle-y and flimsy (with one exception, see below).  The Filco comes with a cover, so that broke the tie.  I'm VERY happy with my purchase (Majestouch brown).

The one 'cheaper' kb that I will be picking up very soon is the Noppoo Choc Mini.  It felt solid and stable.  I'll be ordering one in February after Spring Festival.  I'll just have to get past the name I guess.

Now it's on to replacement key caps and kb modding! :-)

Thank you all for your help!