Author Topic: Looking for a keyboard with anti ghosting (Read 8973 times)

Biffleur · « **on:** Mon, 27 December 2010, 17:52:09 »

Hello

I've been searching a keyboard with antighosting for 40€ and I can't seem to find what i'm looking for. I had bought the Microsoft Sidewinder x4 and it's a piece of ****, bad response and most of the keys felt like plastic. Anyone has an idea?

Some details about what I am looking for: Robust (for gaming), good response, doesnt make much noise, no fancy keys, no keylock at all. Thank you

Pylon · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 27 December 2010, 18:03:27 »

Slightly more than your budget, but:

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=621

N-key rollover baby (over PS/2). Hold down all the keys you want.

Biffleur · « **Reply #2 on:** Mon, 27 December 2010, 18:15:30 »

Thank you but it seems it's not for sale in France. And btw, does NKEY rollover has something to do with response? Cuz Sidewinder had it, but it had bad response as I said

I have a Cherry right now and it has pretty good response, anyone knows a model with anti-ghosting?

Pylon · « **Reply #3 on:** Mon, 27 December 2010, 18:25:04 »

Response, as in key feel? That depends on the switch type used.

Read:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links

N-key rollover means that you can hold down all the keys and have them register.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Do+I+need+N-key+rollover

NKRO at your price range is rare. Ideally, you should be getting an N-key rollover model Filco with Cherry MX Blue switches for response, but those are expensive.

Biffleur · « **Reply #4 on:** Mon, 27 December 2010, 18:34:07 »

Response as...I'll give an exemple of the problem I had : for exemple if I tried to press the spacebar quickly it wouldn't register all the keystrokes... Hope you understand :S

I understand Nkey Rollover is about simultaneaous presses, was just wondering if it had something to do with this "delay"

Findecanor · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 03:24:40 »

Quote from: Biffleur;269553

I've been searching a keyboard with antighosting ...

Gah! The use of that word for gaming keyboards makes me cringe. If you are using correct terminology, then all modern keyboards have anti-ghosting!

Use the term "N-key rollover", please!

Azuremen · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 04:10:33 »

Quote from: ripster;269589

The spacebar delay is latency. I'm surprised you see it since the Sidewinder X4 is one of the few USB 2.0 keyboards out there. Most of the latency is introduced by Windows anyway.

But, but that gold plug drops at least 1ms.

AT LEAST.

Honestly, if you think latency is the issue, it is likely on the OS end of things like Ripster said, rather than the keyboard bit.

Biffleur · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 08:04:16 »

Yeh sorry if I don't use the right words, I'm not a specialist :S Actually only anti- ghosting on most used keys for gaming would be nice. (So it's not NKRO as it's not on all the keys right?)

Maybe the problem with the delay I had on xwinder comes from the USB and the driver... (but it wasnt the only problem anyway)

Maybe I should take a PS/2 Kb?

Ahh I miss the Keytronic, they're not for sale in Europe anymore

Biffleur · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 09:19:03 »

I stumbled across those keyboards while I searched but it's too expensive.

Anyone know a Cherry model with no keylock?

keyb_gr · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 14:03:04 »

The usual Cherry boards like G80s have an IBM-style matrix. Not bad, but no NKRO.

The only board with NKRO in the 40€ range that I know of is the Fujitsu-Siemens (now only Fujitsu) KBPC E, an adjustable ergo design. They have technology that allows them to use surface mount parts (including diodes) on plastic membrane sheets. The X4 uses another trick, IIRC, something involving resistors.

Otherwise old capacitive boards are inherently NKRO (but rarely very nice to type on as they are commonly foam and foil with rotted foam).

Mechanicals with NKRO exist (e.g. Raptor-Gaming K1 or Steelseries 6Gv2), with the 6Gv2 being the only one below the 100€ mark, starting around ~70€.

Biffleur · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 16:19:09 »

You all talk about full NKRO but all I need is anti-ghosting on arrows, space, wasd (like, all arrows + space at the same time, etc) For exemple on my old keytronic I had no problem, or even my very first kb, a basic Mircosoft one (which were Ps/2). So a basic, robust keyboard with this feature must exist no?

Sorry if I misunderstood something

Biffleur · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 18:23:23 »

I think i'll go for the KR 6220 G

It says "compatible with XP VISTA" But I have Seven, could it be a problem?

And it says High quality ABS keys, is it any good? Thanks for your help ripster

Pylon · « **Reply #12 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 18:33:26 »

Quote from: Biffleur;270006

It says "compatible with XP VISTA" But I have Seven, could it be a problem?

That's all junk. The Vista requirements involves little more than a domed Windows key. You have plenty of members here hooking up 1980s-era Model Ms to PCs running Windows 7.

Biffleur · « **Reply #13 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:15:09 »

Ok guys :-)

Quote from: ripster;270008

I don't know what plastic Xarmor and Steelseries uses but I'm reading daily reports of broken keys over at Overclock.net.

What do you mean?

Cyanide · « **Reply #14 on:** Tue, 28 December 2010, 19:58:09 »

Biffleur · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 03 January 2011, 14:40:31 »

Anyone knows a good ps/2 keyboard which has what i'm looking for (no ghosting, robust)?

keyb_gr · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 03 January 2011, 16:16:06 »

Something like this?

CodeChef · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 03 January 2011, 16:50:43 »

You won't find anything in that price range save for a used Model M off of eBay.

Biffleur · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 05 January 2011, 10:30:36 »

I used to own 2 keytronic and they were basic and with no ghosting (atleast on arrows + space), someone must know a kb similar to this? :S A Cherry ps/2 for exemple?

lowpoly · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 05 January 2011, 12:19:35 »

The Raptor K1 sale on ebay Germany is still going. Average price is Euro 35 to 45.

Biffleur · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 06:42:33 »

Has anyone tried the I-rocks KR-6220G?

I am wondering this because there seems to be 2 versions, which is weird

As you can see on the first one the spacebar is little and there are 2 keys next to both alt. So I'd like to know which one is in the box, if anyone tried it.

Biffleur · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 08:14:07 »

Sorry for the bad title but I actually refer to NKRO, someone explained me the difference and I finally understood

, and actually I just need to press space + wasd + arrows, so no need of full NKRO, some basic keyboard can do that.

Biffleur · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 10:38:22 »

Sorry but I don't understand

FrittenFett · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 13:28:17 »

But "Ghosting" refers to a dysfunction in the matrix (?) that makes windows register keys that are not pressed anymore. I can reproduce this thing with my G80-3000 LPCDE (2010) by hitting the keys like TEH angry kid.

Biffleur · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 15:56:52 »

Yeh I used to use the term ghosting as in the title, I didn't understand what was the problem since companies use it, and I finally understood that with this term they refer to key-rollover, and as FrittenFett pointed out ghosting is a different problem.

Btw ripster I think i'm going to buy the I-rocks KR-6220G-BK, but there are 2 images to illustrate the keyboard

This one is asian layout (2 keys next to alt), there is no chance I receive this one right?

FrittenFett · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 16:16:07 »

How bout: "StrangeAsianKeyboardLayoutWithExtraKeysThatNoOneKnowsWhatTheyCanBeUsedFor"? Shortened: SAKLWEKTNOKWTCABUF ?
:croc:

@Biffleur
A wrong term stays a wront even when its used by a company. That's one of the major problems with languages nowadays. Company calim to have the right to change the meaning of words with one product for what they need aggressive eyecatcher.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 16:39:09 »

Quote from: FrittenFett;276202

But "Ghosting" refers to a dysfunction in the matrix (?) that makes windows register keys that are not pressed anymore. I can reproduce this thing with my G80-3000 LPCDE (2010) by hitting the keys like TEH angry kid.

Try it on PS/2 and see whether it still does that.

If it really is ghosting, there'll be a specific key combo that triggers the "ghost keys". Always.

My bets would be more on USB transmission problems or the OS getting confused though. Sometimes you'll end up with a modifier like Ctrl stuck on in Windows. Haven't seen that problem in quite a while now... maybe since I went from M to G80?

Biffleur · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 10 January 2011, 17:15:53 »

ripster what are those keys for? change characters (asian/ european)?

Quote from: FrittenFett;276288

How bout:
@Biffleur
A wrong term stays a wront even when its used by a company. That's one of the major problems with languages nowadays. Company calim to have the right to change the meaning of words with one product for what they need aggressive eyecatcher.

I agree, maybe I didn't express myself welll enough, but I meant people were fussed when I used this term and I didn't know what was wrong, since companies use it and all. Didn't really know the difference between antighosting and NKRO.

Biffleur · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 17 January 2011, 14:16:49 »

Bumping my thread again... I'm sending the i-rocks back, I can press the gaming keys at the same time but the feeling of the keys is really akward.

Anyone knows a Cherry model which the matrix registers all the gaming keys (space wasd arrows) at the same time? Or some ps/2 keyboard

Biffleur · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 18 January 2011, 10:50:10 »

As I said I used to own some basic keyboards which had key rollover on the keys I mentionned, some of this must exist...

Should I make a new thread, because the title on this one is wrong?

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Author Topic: Looking for a keyboard with anti ghosting (Read 8973 times)