First Mech keyboard: Rosewill rk-9000 vs Razer BlackWidow

[ModusPwnens]

Hello all. First post here. I am building a desktop for starcraft 2 and TES:Skryim when it comes out later this year, so I have found myself in need of a keyboard.  For the longest time, I have been using typical membrane keyboards (although it turns out I am spoiled because my laptop keyboard is better than most laptop keyboards. Keep it up lenovo ) but I recently heard about these mechanical keyboards. At first I was shocked that people would pay so much for a keyboard, but I decided I would try it before I knock it. So I eventually went to my local frys to try out a bunch of keyboards. I tried all of them, and then I found this one that felt amazing. I looked around for the label, and sure enough, it was a mechanical keyboard (a Siig, if anyone is interested).

After more research, I narrowed down my choices to the rosewill rk-9000 and the razer black widow because they are both relatively cheap keyboards that are said to be pretty good. I don't want the Siig I mentioned in the first paragraph because it has a really small backspace key. Anyways, what are the key (pardon the pun) differences between the rosewill keyboard and the razer keyboard? Here's what I've noted:

Razer:

-only 2-key rollover. This is unimportant to me though because the wasd cluster has been optimized, and really, who is going to press ZXC or TNY or something similar at the same time?
-Cherry MX blue switches
-Lifetime is rated at 50 million keystrokes
-Macro Keys. Not sure if I need these as I don't play mmorpgs anymore...
-Fully programmable. This is sort of a nice feature to have.

Rosewill:
-full N-key rollover
-Cherry MX blue switches
-Lifetime is rated at 20 million keystrokes

The one thing that jumps out at me is the difference in lifetime between keyboards. I noticed the adesso and the scorpio keyboards also are stated for only 20 million keystrokes. Is that typical for lower-end mechanical keyboards? If so, is Razer blowing smoke with their 50 million+ keystroke lifetime claim or is their keyboard really that good? Other than that, they seem pretty similar, so I thought I would ask the geekhack community for opinions. =)

[ch_123]

Once upon a time, Blue Cherry switches were rated for 20 million presses. Then suddenly they were rated for 50 without any change in the design. I think the 50 million figure is for the Black Cherry, and the rest are lumped under that.

Another cheap yet good keyboard to consider is the Unicomp Customizer or Spacesaver, which are only $69.

[sixty]

Now the switch lifetime is a funny story. Both boards use the same switches, so their lifetime will be the same regardless. Originally Cherry (the company that makes the switches used in both boards) claimed that their MX Black will last 50 million strokes, while their MX Blue and MX Clear will last 20 million strokes. In a later catalog, some time in the late 90s, Cherry suddenly declared all switch types to last 50 million strokes. This might have been an error on their part, as a later catalog again rates them at 20 million strokes. Everyone is confused.

I mailed Cherry to ask which one is right:

Cherry Asia: 50 million is correct for all
Cherry Germany: 20 million is correct for all

So yeah, who is supposed to know if even Cherry is confused about their own product. Either way, it will be the same for both boards and can not be considered as a proper "pro point".

That aside, I suggest you to get the RK-9000. It is of slightly higher build quality and personally I prefer the looks of the RK over the BW.

[ch_123]

Given my experiences with the Blue Cherry switch, and the experiences of others on the net, and the life expectancy of similar switches, the 20 million figure is far, far more believable.

lol at the user name of the OP.

[sixty]

I'll take apart a switch from the Black Widow tomorrow and compare. Bet its entirely the same.

[stuiees]

Since you have a frys in your area, I would recomend trying out the SS 6gv2 also just so you can get a feel for the blacks.  They usually have them in stock.  Unless you're already set on the blue switch.  Personally I prefer the design of the Rosewill, but the Leopold is even better (that rosewill logo is ugly imo).

[Broncosoozie]

I personally would opt for the Rosewill, as I don't really like the shiny look of the BW and it's hard to keep it looking clean all the time, but looks are obviously up to you.  Also, just because the matrix is "gaming optimized" doesn't necessarily mean it will work for stuff you're used to.  It might never interfere with you, but if it does for that one combination you love to use, maybe an awkward "push to talk" key and some random keybind you set in SC2, it'll throw you off your game every time you try to use it.

I wouldn't really be concerned with lifetime of the keys, assuming no defects, that is. Here's a thread here referencing putting # of keystrokes into perspective: Link

Basically it boils down to this:

The numbers were calculated out here before and it was many years.

Trust me, you'll spill something on your keyboard first.

[elef]

I'll take apart a switch from the Black Widow tomorrow and compare. Bet its entirely the same.

I bet they will look the same, too. That doesn't mean this Jason character is lying.
I believe it is quite normal in manufacturing to have different quality classes of the exact same product. They may all look the same and in fact come from the exact same production line, but there could still be differences.

Let's take the actuation force of a keyswitch as an example. Cherry designs the blues to be 50cN. Now, they won't all be 50.000cN, obviously. So, Cherry does some quality control and measures each switch coming off the assembly line. Everything under 45cN and over 55 cN gets thrown out. Everything between 48 and 52cN is class A, and 45-48 and 52-55 is class B. Razer pays a premium to get class A switches only and gets a slightly higher quality product than others, who may get B only or a random mix of A and B.

AFAIK this is how computer processors are made, for instance. They measure whatever characteristics of the silicon matter, and the better bits of silicon become the high-end, high clock speed processors, while the poorer ones are clocked at a lower clock speed (because they couldn't take the high clock speed anyway). The upshot is that the mfgr can sell all they make at different price points, and everyone is happy.

This may be what is going on with the Cherries, or the guy may be making stuff up. You won't be able to tell without getting intimate with Cherry or using some mighty sophisticated equipment.

[itlnstln]

Nobody would put that level of effort of quality control into a keyswitch that costs a few cents in bulk.  CPUs are more complex and retail for much higher; thus the wide margin in spring force.  This guy is either making the whole thing up or he's over-playing a very minor QA process to make sure all the switches work when a keyboard is shipped.

[elef]

The actuation force was just an example, although when you already have a keyboard factory up and running, you probably have some QA already. Say, a machine that presses the key and checks if it works at all. Now, the cost of adding a force meter to the "finger" of that machine and a computerised sorting arm that drops the switches in one of two bins based on the result would be negligible in the grand scheme of things.
AFAIK the cost of the machinery isn't much of a consideration in general, as long as it's not astronomical and the machine doesn't require too much repair and maintenance. 1000 or even 10,000 or 50,000 euros is not a big deal for a factory if it's a one time cost. If it doesn't add to the time required for manufacturing, it shouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, the characteristic they sort by could be someting else, I'm just saying that post-production class ratings are entirely plausible.

[dish]

-only 2-key rollover. This is unimportant to me though because the wasd cluster has been optimized, and really, who is going to press ZXC or TNY or something similar at the same time?

2KRO is annoying if you type 130+ wpm.    It's also annoying in any situation where you will be hitting multiple keys in quick succession with possible overlap.  Like in RTS games.

One of the biggest things I noticed switching from 2kro to nkro was how suddenly I wasn't consistently making the same errors.  The errors I did make were actual errors.  My space finally registered properly and there were no random (or missed) characters.

 How anyone can make a "gaming", or premium, keyboard that's not nkro just blows my mind.

[LaneWeaver]

I have a BlackWidow and there are some reviews on Amazon claiming the shift key can get stiff. Well, the left shift button on mine was very shift from the start, and it turned out that the stabilizer was pressing against the actual switch. I swapped the stabilizer from the + key on the numpad and it's a lot less stiff now.

Other than that, I have no qualms about recommending this keyboard as a starter mech. It has a few features the Rosewill doesn't have, namely media keys and the macro functions. And yes, it's 2RKO, but only in the worst possible case. I type at 90-100+ WPM and it hasn't been a problem.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I own both and have no qualms recommending either. If I could only own one I'd axe the Razer.

Macro keys are nicer than people give them credit for, but no NKRO and total fingerprint magnet!

So, in the end, think of what you want. If macro keys do not appeal to you, and/or you hate the tron font, think Rosewill., Otherwise, the Blackwidow is a pretty solid choice!

(I DID get my Blackwidow for $56 though... and my RK-9000 for $72.)

[BlueRain]

If you do have a Fry's in your area, they carry the Blackwidow now too as well. So you can try both the SteelSeries 7G (black switch) and the Blackwidow (blue switch). The reps are generally nice enough to let you take them out of the boxes in my experience.

[ModusPwnens]

If you do have a Fry's in your area, they carry the Blackwidow now too as well. So you can try both the SteelSeries 7G (black switch) and the Blackwidow (blue switch). The reps are generally nice enough to let you take them out of the boxes in my experience.

Unfortunately, the frys near me only has the Siig mechanical and the BW. Regardless, I don't want the 7G because it has that stupid backspace key.

[ModusPwnens]

So, I was able to try out a steelseries 7G today. I had no interest in purchasing it anyways due to the lame backspace key, but it was a good opportunity to try out black switches.

I have to say, I was sorta disappointed. They felt very strange to me. I'm not sure what the deal was with them, maybe it's the whole linear factor...

[LaneWeaver]

Do you play TF2? I know I've seen that username somewhere else before. Had a good laugh when I read it.

Modus ponens, modus tollens.. frickin' logic.

[ModusPwnens]

Do you play TF2? I know I've seen that username somewhere else before. Had a good laugh when I read it.

Modus ponens, modus tollens.. frickin' logic.

Haha thanks. I really like this username. I'm always surprised at how often it's taken, but here it was free =). And I doubt it, the only other game you could have possible seen me in is Starcraft 2. I've never played TF2.

[duq]

+1 for the rosewill. Aesthetically looks more pleasing to me.

[polygon]

Have you ever had a glossy keyboard? It is SUCH a big hassle it's unbelievable. For me gloss = immediate deal breaker. Consider how annoying it will get, when you have to be touching it all day and every smallest thing makes it look like crap.

[kidchunks]

Hopefully newegg gets them keyboards back in stock, they've been changing the date a few times.