Author Topic: A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple  (Read 4840 times)

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Offline hruvulum

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« on: Sat, 22 January 2011, 11:49:52 »
The vast majority of computer keyboard made in the last 30 years and all the mechanical keyboards I have seen follow the standard set by IBM in which one row of keys is 3/4 inch from the next row (which I will call the "vertical spacing") and (in each row) one key is 3/4 inch from its neighbor (which I will call the "horizontal spacing").

All the keyboards sold by Apple in the last 4 years deviate from the IBM standard by having a "vertical spacing" of only 9/16 (edit: wrong: 23/32 is more like it) inches or so (except that the bottom row, which contains the space bar, is "taller" than the other rows except on the new 11-inch Macbook Air).  I.e., on a recent Apple keyboard, the "vertical" component of the distance between the center of the Q key and the center of the A key is significantly less than it is on most keyboards made in the last 30 years.

I used to be annoyed at Apple for deviating from the standard, but then I noticed that it might be time for a new standard (and as far as I have been able to tell by measuring a few keyboards and looking at a lot of pictures of keyboards, all Apple keyboards of the last 4 years are "standardized" in the sense of being the same in their spacing except for the very minor difference in the new 11-inch Macbook Air noted above) because the old, IBM standard vertical spacing of .75 inches is a problem on netbooks and computers like the 11-inch Macbook Air.

So my question to the group is, can I buy or build a mechanical keyboard (external keyboard, of course) that has the same vertical spacing between rows of keys as an Apple keyboard?

That way, it will be easier every time I switch between using my Macbook's internal keyboard and the mechanical keyboard.
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 February 2011, 15:00:07 by hruvulum »

Offline Findecanor

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 22 January 2011, 12:39:05 »
Interesting. I have not noticed this before. I will certainly take another look at the Macintoshes at work on Monday.

Mechanical switches are mounted on either a metal plate or a PCB or both.  Commissioning only one or a few PCBs or  CNC-cut or stamped metal plates can be quite costly per item.
Instead of commissioning a CNC'ed switch mounting plate, I have been considering getting a plate and case made as one piece by a 3D printer at Shapeways, but I am unsure about the tolerance and shrinking of the materials.

You could perhaps get a Cherry keyboard with PCB-mounted switches, cut up the PCB, glue it together again and then reroute everything, but that would be a lot of work .. not to mention a lot of opportunity to screw up.

Then there are the key caps ...
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 January 2011, 14:43:16 by Findecanor »
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Offline hruvulum

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 22 January 2011, 12:54:50 »
OK OK I do not need more info about building a keyboard.

Thanks for the replies.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 January 2011, 13:01:13 by hruvulum »

Offline msiegel

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 22 January 2011, 13:11:47 »
Quote from: hruvulum;282881
on a recent Apple keyboard, the "vertical" component of the distance between the center of the Q key and the center of the A key is significantly less than it is on most keyboards made in the last 30 years

WTH.

That is all.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 January 2011, 13:20:04 by msiegel »

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Offline Findecanor

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 22 January 2011, 14:50:59 »
Quote from: hruvulum;282881
... a "vertical spacing" of only 9/16 inches or so ...
BTW, I think that you are exaggerating a little bit. I don't have a chiclet Apple keyboard right now (at home), but I have been downloading several pictures and taken measurements in those. The difference between width and height is very small.

I would speculate that the lower height is a way to retain the finger distance from the home row to other keys in the new flat keyboards vs. the previous desktop keyboard, which had a curved back plane.
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 January 2011, 14:55:06 by Findecanor »
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Offline Minskleip

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 23 January 2011, 14:14:47 »
You cannot kill that which never lived.
What\'s in the back of my car? A cdr lol

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Offline Findecanor

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 05:50:17 »
I have measured on the recent Apple keyboards at work. Both stand-alone small and wide and on a laptops.
4 keys measured horizontally are 3" = 76 mm, but 4 keys measured vertically are 74 mm. (76 - 74)/4 = ~1/2 mm smaller height per key. Not measured at sub-mm accuracy, though.
Winnie The Poo ruler.
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 February 2011, 15:44:07 by Findecanor »
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Offline keyb_gr

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 08:08:37 »
It would make sense to vertical reduce key spacing on entirely flat keyboards a bit. Curvature on a regular one has about the same effect.
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Offline hruvulum

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 01 February 2011, 15:15:10 »
Thanks for the replies.

In my original post, I used a bad number because I was too lazy to redo the measurement or find my notes on my old measurement.  (Sorry.  I have edited the OP to add a correction.)

According to my measurement with a ruler, the distance between the top of the space key and the top of the 7 key or the top of the control key and the top of the backquote key (that is, 4 rows of keys and the space between keys) is about 3.2 mm or 1/8 inch less on a first-generation Macbook than on a standard keyboard.  A new-looking Apple keyboard at a local museum had the same measurement as the Macbook's keyboard up to the limits of the measurement technique I was using (a pencil mark on an index card).
« Last Edit: Tue, 01 February 2011, 15:15:40 by hruvulum »

Offline keyboardlover

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A mechanical keyboard with keyrow spacing same as Apple
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 01 February 2011, 20:10:48 »
Quote from: ripster
Now I can call my DealExtreme the Macbook Killer too.  It's off by only a 1/16".


It's also a Noppoo and IBM Space-saving industrial killer! And every other space-saving mechanical keyboard ever!