Author Topic: [Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf  (Read 10380 times)

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Offline Tony

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 06:10:17 »




Since there's a lot of typists here, this book of Dr. Pascarelli about RSI - Repetitive Strain Injury is quite helpful and food for thought.

The faster you type, the higher risk you will be suffer from RSI.
(quoted from this book)

Download RSI - The Complete Guide.


Some excerpts

Computer keyboards

No other piece of computer equipment has had more design research and gone through more style changes than the computer keyboard. Research has focused on key placement, size, adjustability, touch, key pressure, and technical design. Still, the keyboard that suits everyone has not yet appeared.

What kind of keyboard should you buy? Choosing a keyboard can be confusing, as there are so many available at a wide range of prices. When you buy a new computer, it comes with a standard keyboard, and if it is not comfortable or is causing you pain, you will want to get one that suits your needs better. As mentioned in chapter 2, the elbow carrying angle, which varies from person to person, will affect the way you place your handsas you hit the keys. The greater your carrying angle, the greater the likelihood that you will need a split keyboard. In any case, I believe a split keyboard is generally a good choice for everyone.



Virtually all keyboards now on the market have the cheaper-to-manufacture membrane cushioning for keys, rather than the more desirable individual spring loading for each key, which is best for good touch feedback. Basically, three types of keyboards are available: traditional, fixed split, and adjustable split.

The traditional keyboard is supplied with most home computers and is usually what you will find at your workstation. Some are available with a number pad on the right side, while others are alphanumeric or have a separate number keyboard.

The fixed split keyboard has a split at an angle of about twenty-four degrees and a slight downward taper on each end, which takes the hand slightly out of the palms-down position. The number pad, on the right side, is flat. The palm apron along the front edge of these keyboards is not ergonomically sound—don’t rely on it to support your palms. Small legs that prop up the far end of the keyboard should not be used, since they encourage extending your wrist, as when pushing a door open, a harmful posture. If you purchase this type of keyboard, make sure you have the right size of pullout tray.



There are several varieties of adjustable keyboards. These keyboards can be placed in the traditional position, angled, and even tented so the hands are no longer in the palms-down position but are held somewhere between palms up and palms down.

According to Dr. Alan Hedge, an ergonomics researcher at Cornell University, keying with the palms in a vertical position, as in playing an accordion, allows the forearm tendons, which move the fingers, to work more easily. Since you cannot see the keys in this position, it is difficult or impossible for a nontouch typist to use one, so vertical mirrors are installed on each side.

Many of the people who feel uncomfortable in the palms-down position at the keyboard have tight forearm pronator and supinator muscles, which need to be stretched. By placing the adjustable keyboard at a tented angle of approximately thirty degrees they might feel more comfortable during their retraining. See chapter 6 for details on exercises.
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 January 2011, 06:31:44 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline Tony

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 06:58:38 »
This paragraph mentions the mechanical keyboards, with the tactile feedback.


Touch and Tactile Feedback

Dr. David Rempel at UCLA and Dr. Thomas Armstrong at the University of Michigan have done extensive research on the amount of work spent in activating keys. Basically, this research has shown that most of us press the keys with far greater force than we need to. Most keyboards no longer have spring-loaded keys, which are more costly to manufacture. Now a plastic or rubber membrane cushions the keys, so that the sense of contact is lost, as is the “click” that told you that you made contact. The effort required to be sure you’ve struck the key increases your workload and potential for injury.



Wrist Rests
The use of wrist rests is controversial. I prefer to call them wrist guides and ask my patients to use them only as guides, because resting the forearms on a wrist support while keying can be harmful for several reasons. First, they take the upper arms out of the process of keying, so you are overloading the forearm and hand muscles and increasing your chances of injury.

Moreover, the wrist support tends to encourage potentially harmful positioning, particularly wrist extension (bending your wrist up, as in pushing a door open). With the wrist fixed on the wrist rest, there is a tendency to use a windshield-wiperlike wrist motion, which is extra work and harmful. Finally, the wrist rest places pressure over the carpal tunnel area, which is not a good idea.
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 January 2011, 07:03:36 by Tony »
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 10:15:02 »
Indeed :-)

I think it is hard to find a reliable cause to RSI and carpal tunnel Sd

As a doctor, typing quite a lot every day, i changed for a flat apple scissors keyboard with my wrists on the desk. Six months later i experienced a beginning of a carpal tunnel syndrom.

I switched to a mecanical keyboard a learnt to touchtype (still learning ...) and i feel better. But my experience is not worth a penny, Only a good and serious scientifical study can raise some beginning of a proof.

I haven't seen one yet.
________________
Sorry for my english
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline iMav

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 10:16:58 »
Bottom line...if what you are doing hurts...change.

Offline 7bit

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 10:51:10 »
My opinion is that RSI is caused by a virus!

The only way to avoid that virus, is to buy Dr. M. Petersen's Anti-Virus Double Shot Key Caps!!!
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 January 2011, 11:31:17 by 7bit »
Buy key caps here: Round 5
Buy switches here: CherryMX

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 11:12:35 »
;-)

My muscles hurt at the beginning (change of position i think)
and i type slower than before, maybe it is why it doesn't hurt anymore.

People told me i switched back for a good old keyboard...
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline Johannes

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 11:12:48 »
The Mindbody Prescription makes an interesting contrast..

Offline raeb

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 11:25:17 »
Quote from: iMav;283896
Bottom line...if what you are doing hurts...change.


Quoted for truth.  At work (programmer) I switched to a Kinesis Freestyle from the gel wristpad + crappy HP keyboard (quite literally the worst keyboard I have ever typed on, you know which one I mean).  Now, I know I know, the freestyle keys aren't much better.  But the layout, adjustability are just... great, for me.  Puts the MS Natural 4k to shame.  If this thing had some Cherry blue or browns, I'd be one happy camper.  And oh yea, my wrists and forearms don't hurt anymore.  Everyone is different.

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 12:13:41 »
i have seen the u tron with topre switches

quite expensive though
does anybody has that one ?
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline keyboardlover

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 12:19:33 »
HaaTa has one.

Offline urlwolf

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 12:28:19 »
what I don't see (not that I've tried that hard to find it) is a paper that compares long-term use of mech boards against rubber domes. The effect should be large. If I had an interest in selling mech boards, I'd sponsor this study. But we all know marketing is not the strong point of most manufacturers (at least not cherry's) :)

Has anybody found such a paper?
keyboards: Cherry G80-3494- cherry reds | filco majestytouch - cherry browns | kinesis contour - cherry browns | cherry G80 - 1800 cherry blacks.
mice: filco touchpad | logitech G9x | wowpen joy | kensington orbit trackball | zalman fpsgun | intellimouse v1 | logitech rx1500

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 13:29:02 »
If you have enough time when it's cold outside

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed

search terms
Repetitive strain injury keyboard

94 articles or abstracts

not so much ;-)

just be careful being published does not mean you've written a good article or avery scientific one ...
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline Muhi

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 24 January 2011, 16:25:16 »
Quote from: urlwolf;283960
what I don't see (not that I've tried that hard to find it) is a paper that compares long-term use of mech boards against rubber domes. The effect should be large. If I had an interest in selling mech boards, I'd sponsor this study. But we all know marketing is not the strong point of most manufacturers (at least not cherry's) :)

Has anybody found such a paper?


The sample would be too small and the variance per typist too high.
Rule No. 2 - Double Tap: You think it’s dead (technically it was before you shot it), one more makes 100% sure.

Offline conley

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 13:46:30 »
Quote from: Muhi;284102
The sample would be too small and the variance per typist too high.


Not if a large enough sample was used. What do you mean by the variance being too high? A stratified random sample should work just fine.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #14 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 15:44:08 »
If you do, be sure you update your sig in a NOTICEABLE fashion.

Offline gilgam

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 17:04:36 »
Quote from: conley;285294
Not if a large enough sample was used. What do you mean by the variance being too high? A stratified random sample should work just fine.


Yes but there a major problem  the biases.
there is so many other related problems giving CTS (carpal tunnel etc.) and tendinopathies that i believe one must have a huge sample to be significant.

I've read the book by the way. It's a good one.
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline Tony

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 28 January 2011, 20:53:29 »
After reaching 60-65wpm occasionally my hands feel hurt a bit. I slow down to 50-55wpm and now the pain goes away.

I realize that there is a comfortable speed for me. Faster than that and my hands are overloaded.
Keyboard: Filco MJ1 104 brown, Filco MJ2 87 brown, Compaq MX11800, Noppoo Choc Brown/Blue/Red, IBM Model M 1996, CMStorm Quickfire Rapid Black
Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline conley

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 10:35:21 »
Quote from: gilgam;285461
Yes but there a major problem  the biases.
there is so many other related problems giving CTS (carpal tunnel etc.) and tendinopathies that i believe one must have a huge sample to be significant.

I've read the book by the way. It's a good one.


Thus, if mechanical keyboards aren't shown to help in the study, it can be concluded that there isn't much advantage to using one, ergonomically. That's what random sampling is for.

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 14:03:26 »
yes but one can never have a perfect random sampling, unless having  huge numbers of testers.

Moreover you have to test on the same looking keyboard, for months, being sure nobody knows if this is a mechanical or a rubber dome for example, being sure that people's opinion on different technology is neutral (imagine trying to test with GH members, in 5 minutes they drop the caps off, and in ten minutes they tell you they are feeling more strain with this damn Fu..ing sh.t of rubber dome keyboard than their lovely mechanical one) etc.

In theory it's simple
In true life with enough money i can make  you a very solid study, published in Lancet, telling whatever you want (Mechanical is th best / Rubber dome is the best etc.)

-There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics... -  churchill i believe
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline conley

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 15:40:46 »
Quote from: gilgam;287846
yes but one can never have a perfect random sampling, unless having  huge numbers of testers.

Moreover you have to test on the same looking keyboard, for months, being sure nobody knows if this is a mechanical or a rubber dome for example, being sure that people's opinion on different technology is neutral (imagine trying to test with GH members, in 5 minutes they drop the caps off, and in ten minutes they tell you they are feeling more strain with this damn Fu..ing sh.t of rubber dome keyboard than their lovely mechanical one) etc.

In theory it's simple
In true life with enough money i can make  you a very solid study, published in Lancet, telling whatever you want (Mechanical is th best / Rubber dome is the best etc.)

-There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics... -  churchill i believe


You couldn't have a perfect sample, period. There's no such thing. See sampling error, confidence levels.

None of the things listed are issues. There have been experiments that have gone on for years. Double blinding would resolve the neutrality issue (for control groups, presumably).

A solid study wouldn't necessarily show me what I wanted. It would only show the people felt (in this instance).

So now you're trying to discount the entire field of statistics with a quote you almost surely don't understand? When properly administered, statistics don't lie. People, however, can manipulate results or perform experiments incorrectly, whether for nefarious purposes or by mistake.

Offline gilgam

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[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 16:16:07 »
well
You don't really have to be so aggresive

Let's talk about background, i work as an epidemiologist/pharmacologist which is the science of ordering health data and evalutation of drugs... I think i can understand the Churchill's quote quite a bit "mon cher ami".

And this is undoubtly true

Give me a set of numbers and i can tell one thing and the opposite without notice for 99,99% of the population.

Example : a percentage rises from 1% to 2% in a year
- We have a small increase of 1%
- We have a huge augmentation of 100%

Both are true.
This is quite "kindergarten" example but it still works fine for my students.


I don't talk about Hard Science, but health sciences as it is the case here about RSI. And considering  the time needed to have enough events that you can evaluate (carpal tunnel for example), pain is not enough accurate, there will  be a lot of interfering biases.

I doin"t think it's impossible, i believe it'll be very hard to have enough power to eliminate the biases.

Stay cool man, we're just talking, right ?

____________
Forgive my poor english
Realforce 105 FR, HHKB Pro 2 black, 1 Raptor K1 Black Cherry and 1 Raptor K1 Red Cherry , Compag MX 11800  tBrown Cherry, G80-3000 Clear Cherry , G80-1000 Blue Cherry / Ghetto red, Lexmark 1992 SSK Buckling spring, Unicomp 2011 Customizer 102 Buckling spring
and a few rubber dome/scissors keyboards from Apple/Logitech

Offline conley

  • Posts: 8
[Book] RSI - The Complete Guide.pdf
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 17:39:29 »
Quote from: gilgam;287909
well
You don't really have to be so aggresive

Let's talk about background, i work as an epidemiologist/pharmacologist which is the science of ordering health data and evalutation of drugs... I think i can understand the Churchill's quote quite a bit "mon cher ami".

And this is undoubtly true

Give me a set of numbers and i can tell one thing and the opposite without notice for 99,99% of the population.

Example : a percentage rises from 1% to 2% in a year
- We have a small increase of 1%
- We have a huge augmentation of 100%

Both are true.
This is quite "kindergarten" example but it still works fine for my students.


I don't talk about Hard Science, but health sciences as it is the case here about RSI. And considering  the time needed to have enough events that you can evaluate (carpal tunnel for example), pain is not enough accurate, there will  be a lot of interfering biases.

I doin"t think it's impossible, i believe it'll be very hard to have enough power to eliminate the biases.

Stay cool man, we're just talking, right ?

____________
Forgive my poor english


I apologize. Suffice to say that I live in an area that encourages a cynical demeanor.

Anyways, though pain is indeed subjective, medical cases are some of the most popular statistical cases that I know of, because they can presumably account for that discrepancy. Time shouldn't be an issue either; some medical studies last upwards of twenty years.