Author Topic: Are we all pack rats?  (Read 8784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Half-Saint

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Are we all pack rats?
« on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 00:44:37 »
I will probably be moving in the next 2 months and I'm realising that I have too much stuff. I also find it hard to decide which stuff to get rid off. I'm currently hoarding computer keyboards but I also own a lot of computer games and that's not just PC games but also C64, Amstrad, Spectrum, Amiga, etc. I'm thinking I should get rid of most of the stuff I'm not actively using before we move.

Is anyone else having this problem? :)
IBM Model M (6) - Acer Alcatel 6312-KW - IBM Model M Space Saver - IBM Model M 122-key - Cherry G80-3000 (2) - IBM Model F AT - TG3 BL82A (2)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________________________
My geek blog: http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/

Offline sixty

  • Posts: 984
    • http://deskthority.net
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 01:05:57 »
Yes.

Solution: Rent a small garage or a storage place. Had to do this months ago. Too many goddamn keyboards.

Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 02:00:03 »
Quote from: sixty;284937
Yes.
Solution: Rent a small garage or a storage place. Had to do this months ago. Too many goddamn keyboards.

THIS! ^

Which reminds me, I just counted more keyboards that I had laying around. I really just need to sort though them and figure out just how many I have, perhaps even update my sig.  =)

To the op-
I would just try and consolodate as best you can if you are having a hard time deciding on something in particular. Why??? Well I think that feeling of regret is just nasty. However if you watch those organization shows, they basically always just tell people to ditch their stuff.

Wow, I was of no help. haahaa


=)
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 04:15:34 »
We can all throw away a lot of stuff. Currently I have 4, parallel printer cables I don't know why, I just think (just in case).
I even have an old usb scanner, but when i actually had to fax documents, i just took pics of the docs with my digi cam and free email fax'd the stuff.
Oh and i've never thrown away a hard drive, i must have 200mb ones to current (if we consider how many times we upgrade), I gotta get me one of those super magnets or just remove the platters.

I should do this b4 I move again! argh.

(I don't keep weird memorabilla around tho or like 10000000000 not as bad as the hoarder shows on tv).

Offline godly_music

  • Posts: 255
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 05:21:15 »
Force youself to sell all the stuff you can do without. Sure it's nice to have 4 different kinds of C64 in your basement, but do you actually use them?

Oh and also, all the older stuff has emulators nowadays that act just like the real thing. You could condense a dozen old machines and software into a 200 MB folder on your PC.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 January 2011, 05:27:07 by godly_music »

Offline Half-Saint

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 06:16:05 »
Actually I own six C64 breadbins, one C128, Amiga 500, two Atari ST, etc. :D
IBM Model M (6) - Acer Alcatel 6312-KW - IBM Model M Space Saver - IBM Model M 122-key - Cherry G80-3000 (2) - IBM Model F AT - TG3 BL82A (2)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________________________
My geek blog: http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 09:21:32 »
I'm not a pack rat at all. After all, I only have 16 computers and 9 CRT monitors.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 09:23:32 »
I am the opposite of a pack rat.  I try to have as few things as possible.  I hate clutter.


Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 09:40:27 »
Not me...although I now have some extra keyboards. Solution: buy moar computers?

Offline phillip

  • Posts: 199
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 09:58:12 »
I like to keep anything useful.

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 10:07:38 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;285127
Not me...although I now have some extra keyboards. Solution: buy moar computers?


This. Let's see, there's my main rig, my dad's computer, my Linux box... Let's add in a NAS, an HTPC, a webserver, a hardware firewall, a gaming rig for my mother, a gaming rig for my cat, and a few random computers from the thrift store...


Still too many goddamn keyboards. :(
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 12:18:56 »
Quote from: godly_music;285013
Force youself to sell all the stuff you can do without. Sure it's nice to have 4 different kinds of C64 in your basement, but do you actually use them?

Oh and also, all the older stuff has emulators nowadays that act just like the real thing. You could condense a dozen old machines and software into a 200 MB folder on your PC.


No, emulators fail miserably. And even if they COULD get everything right, it's still not the same experience without the old hardware.
People who say emulators are "good" don't use old equipment extensively or don't really have a real passion for it I suppose.

When I get too many computers or something, I just give them away to friends/family.
I always keep my room clean and organized though. I couldn't see the need for having so many keyboards that you need to rent a storage unit (that's crazy!). You can only use one at a time guys :)
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline firestorm

  • Posts: 126
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 14:06:14 »
I can be a pack rat, but I don't really hoard anything in particular.  I just get lazy and toss old junk in the basement, and I have a tendency to keep anything that I feel may have some value in the future.  The only exceptions may be items from my childhood, mostly things that hold no market value but hold too much value to simply discard.  This includes things like the old NES and Dreamcast.  It once included the ColecoVision, but I do believe that has *some* value on the used market now.

FWIW, I do tend to keep boxes.  I've resigned myself to throwing out boxes for most things, but I keep boxes for most electronics.  This includes the huge box for the plasma TV, for my speakers, my receiver, dvd and bluray players, etc...  For the bigger, more expensive stuff, it's more because there's nothing like the original box for transport.  For less expensive things like the blu-ray players that could be packed easily otherwise, the original boxes are so small that I figure I may as well keep 'em.

Offline Ekaros

  • Posts: 942
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 15:39:45 »
Pack Rating is poor thing to do, as you anyway end up getting new one... So I have to occasionaly clear some...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
Filco 105-key NKRO MX Browns Sw/Fi-layout|IBM Model M 1394545 Lexmark 102-key Finnish-layout 1994-03-22|Cherry G80-3000LQCDE-2 with MX CLEAR
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Dell AT102W(105-key SF) (Black ALPS)|Steelseries Steelkeys 6G(MX Black) ISO-FI-layout|Cherry G84-4400 G84-4700 Cherry MLs

Offline keyb_gr

  • Posts: 1384
  • Location: Germany
  • Cherrified user
    • My keyboard page (German)
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 15:40:17 »
'fraid I'm a pack rat, too, but so far space constraints have been preventing the worst. Not sure what I'd do with my retro PCs if I were moving, let alone all the old PC stuff that's accumulated.

Absolutely speaking, that still isn't a lot - some people on the 'tube have a whole BARN full of stuff... O_o
Hardware in signatures clutters Google search results. There should be a field in the profile for that (again).

This message was probably typed on a vintage G80-3000 with blues. Double-shots, baby. :D

Offline Findecanor

  • Posts: 5082
  • Location: Koriko
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 15:54:09 »
Hello everybody. My name is Johan and I am a pack rat.

I have a problem with starting too many projects and never completing them, because in almost each case I never seem to find that perfect part that is required to complete it. And that is just my Star Wars prop/costuming hobby. Not that the completed stuff does not take a lot of room...
I have also filled two boxes with keyboards and keyboard parts since I registered here, but most of that is supposed to be offered here or thrown away later on. I have yet a few keyboards to try out ...
🍉

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 15:55:41 »
I ain't a pack ratter! I'm a rack patter!


Offline HaaTa

  • Master Kiibohd Hunter
  • Posts: 794
  • Location: San Jose, CA, USA
  • Kiibohds!
    • http://kiibohd.com
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 16:26:32 »
I move every 4 months (usually), so yeah I feel your pain.

Typically I sort into 3 categories:
  • Must keep (awesome and/or will use in the future)
  • Interesting (might use and hard/really hard to get another one)
  • Crap (Even if I need it in the future, getting another one is cheap and easy; I just don't see the point of keeping it)


This lets me plan to take the "Must keep" and then any extra space can be devoted to the "Interesting" stuff (if there is space).

For example, I have a box of 18 or so keyboards that is getting dumped next time I move.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline MissileMike

  • Posts: 280
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 16:32:44 »
Hello.  My name is Mike and I am a Pack Rat.  I have 6 brand new space saving model Ms in my office sitting in boxes, just because I am afraid I wouldn't have the opportunity to get one in the future.
BS: 5 Space Savers  ||  9 42H  ||  10 1391401 or similar  ||  1x 1390131  || AT&T 305b  ||  Dell Model M
Cherry: Leopold FC200RC/AB  ||  3 Ducky 1087  ||  PLU ML87 ||  Cherry G80-8113LUVEU-2  browns
Alps: Filco Zero Tenkeyless (fukka)  ||  ABS M1  ||  3x Dell AT101w  ||  Ancer KF-191  ||  6 Vivanco Compact
Misc: NMB RT6855T+  ||  NMB RT101 Space Invader  ||  Dell Quietkey  ||  Ge Fanuc Industrial Metal

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
    • http://www.keyboardlover.com
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 16:52:58 »
Hello Mike!

Offline nanu

  • Posts: 290
    • http://T-T.be/portal
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 26 January 2011, 18:19:41 »
Quote from: phillip;285137
I like to keep anything useful.


That's the justification here. I regret it every time I throw out something and then wonder where it went a month later when I need it for a mod or something.

It's a good thing I kept toaster oven parts under the sofa for over a year and got around to making a ghetto strip heater for bending acrylic.


BTW I think this design is super unsafe. Electrical shock in addition to burns should one touch the heat elements

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 03:59:27 »
Quote from: HaaTa;285444
I move every 4 months (usually), so yeah I feel your pain.

On the run from the gov't?

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 09:54:43 »
Quote from: HaaTa;285444
For example, I have a box of 18 or so keyboards that is getting dumped next time I move.


Why not freebie on GeekHack? :p
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline 8_INCH_FLOPPY

  • Posts: 183
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 27 January 2011, 23:52:11 »
Quote from: HaaTa;285444

For example, I have a box of 18 or so keyboards that is getting dumped next time I move.


I'd rather be a pack-rat than be someone who throws away working keyboards.
Notable Switches I have tried:
black cherry, blue cherry, brown cherry, clear cherry, cherry M84, white alps, black alps, cream alps, Monterey blue alps, Fujitsu Peerless, Gateway2000 rubber dome, Keytronic rubber dome, Model M buckling spring, Model F buckling spring, futaba, black space invader

================================================
HAPPY HUNTING
================================================

Offline theferenc

  • Posts: 1327
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 29 January 2011, 10:03:11 »
I definitely know what you're going through. When I moved this last time, I was forced to get rid of an entire set of (working) colored iMacs, including an original Bondi. I tried and tried to find someone to buy them, and eventually just recycled them, as I couldn't keep them any longer.

I'm definitely a pack rat though. I keep anything that *might* be useful, and just like nanu, every time I throw something out, I end up needing/wanting it for something within a few weeks. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

So I just stopped throwing things out until I absolutely have to. As one of my friends said "You don't have a small apartment, you just have a ton of stuff".
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline Half-Saint

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 31 January 2011, 00:36:59 »
The late George Carlin explained this nicely.. "Your house is just a place for your stuff. If you didn't have so much goddamn stuff, you wouldn't need a house!" :)
IBM Model M (6) - Acer Alcatel 6312-KW - IBM Model M Space Saver - IBM Model M 122-key - Cherry G80-3000 (2) - IBM Model F AT - TG3 BL82A (2)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________________________
My geek blog: http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/

Offline shablaGOO

  • Posts: 6
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 02 February 2011, 08:39:45 »
Quote from: itlnstln;285121
I am the opposite of a pack rat.  I try to have as few things as possible.  I hate clutter.


This. Since my girlfriend moved into my apartment, its been a constant battle of her wanting more things and me wanted to throw everything away.

Offline RoboKrikit

  • Posts: 198
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 02 February 2011, 12:51:15 »
Quote from: shablaGOO;288764
This. Since my girlfriend moved into my apartment, its been a constant battle of her wanting more things and me wanted to throw everything away.


We need

We need

We need

We need

We need
Lovely day for a GUINNESS

Offline db_Iodine

  • Posts: 656
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 02 February 2011, 12:54:56 »
I really hate throwing useful, but unused things away. I can somehow deal with selling stuff but that doesn't make me particularly happy either. I'm still mourning about selling my Das Keyboard :(
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Offline JelinaNU

  • Posts: 46
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 02 February 2011, 17:54:25 »
I always initiate The Great Purge before moving. Anything that I haven't used or looked for in one year or more gets sacrificed to Goodwill, the SA, friends, or the garbage lords. It always surprises me to see exactly how many trash bags and boxes I fill with junk.
"On important topics it is better to be a good deal prolix than even a very little obscure." -EAP

Offline Half-Saint

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 03 February 2011, 00:44:39 »
Just finished filling up one one box with stuff for sale/giveaway:
- old Logitech Pilot mouse boxed
- Haicom CF GPS module w/ BT slipper
- HP 45 calculator
- italian Psion 5mx w/ broken touchscreen
- old Psion CardBus PCMCIA ethernet card
- another Logitech 3-button mouse
- PCChips socket 370 motherboard w/ Celeron 700/66
- PK-201 compact flash VGA-out for PDAs, boxed and unused
- 8GB IBM harddrive
- Pioneer 120S slot load DVD-ROM
- a bunch of IDE cables
- one warped model M shell
- one 5.25" HDD cooler

SainT
IBM Model M (6) - Acer Alcatel 6312-KW - IBM Model M Space Saver - IBM Model M 122-key - Cherry G80-3000 (2) - IBM Model F AT - TG3 BL82A (2)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________________________
My geek blog: http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 03 February 2011, 07:03:50 »
Quote from: Half-Saint;289167
Just finished filling up one one box with stuff for sale/giveaway:
- old Logitech Pilot mouse boxed
- Haicom CF GPS module w/ BT slipper
- HP 45 calculator
- italian Psion 5mx w/ broken touchscreen
- old Psion CardBus PCMCIA ethernet card
- another Logitech 3-button mouse
- PCChips socket 370 motherboard w/ Celeron 700/66
- PK-201 compact flash VGA-out for PDAs, boxed and unused
- 8GB IBM harddrive
- Pioneer 120S slot load DVD-ROM
- a bunch of IDE cables
- one warped model M shell
- one 5.25" HDD cooler

SainT


WANT... IBM... HARD DRIVE...
for free.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Half-Saint

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 371
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 04 February 2011, 01:44:56 »
You don't want it, it's defective :)
IBM Model M (6) - Acer Alcatel 6312-KW - IBM Model M Space Saver - IBM Model M 122-key - Cherry G80-3000 (2) - IBM Model F AT - TG3 BL82A (2)

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
_______________________________________________
My geek blog: http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_mayhem/

Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 04 February 2011, 10:19:52 »
Quote from: Half-Saint;289167
Just finished filling up one one box with stuff for sale/giveaway:
- HP 45 calculator

If that's in the 'giveaway' category, you're clinically insane. Or more than half saint, if there's a difference.

Offline Z Overlord

  • Posts: 47
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 18:56:03 »
I sorta am

Offline audioave10

  • Posts: 498
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 13 February 2011, 22:12:09 »
I'm bad about "collecting"...as in keyboards, PC's and Nascar autographs, books,die-casts etc.
DECK Legend "Toxic" - SOLD
96 IBM Model M 82G2383- 95 IBM Model M 92G7453 - SOLD
Cherry G80-3000/Blues
new: MechanicalEagle Z77 RGB/Blues

Offline bettablue

  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Nellis AFB
  • Geeks with a Grudge. Gotta Love'em
    • All Things DOS
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 28 February 2011, 22:21:46 »
Quote from: Half-Saint;284929
I will probably be moving in the next 2 months and I'm realising that I have too much stuff. I also find it hard to decide which stuff to get rid off. I'm currently hoarding computer keyboards but I also own a lot of computer games and that's not just PC games but also C64, Amstrad, Spectrum, Amiga, etc. I'm thinking I should get rid of most of the stuff I'm not actively using before we move.

Is anyone else having this problem? :)
My wife and I just bought a new home in October.  Believe it or not, we paid only $5500 for it.   Yes that is five thousand, five hungred.  The problem is that when we finally moved, we brought so much stuff with us that it took an additional 10 weeks to finally go theough everything and either put it away, or throw it out.  We ended up downsizing from 2 three bedroom homes into one two berdroom.  That was a lot of work.  We finally have it down to where everything left has it's place.  It wasn't easy!
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
Keyboards - IBM Model M X 2, IBM AT X 2, IBM KB8923, Apple IIe, and Mac SE boards. 

-----------------IBM Think!---------------------
.

Offline phillip

  • Posts: 199
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 28 February 2011, 22:22:56 »
$5500 for a house wtf

Offline bettablue

  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Nellis AFB
  • Geeks with a Grudge. Gotta Love'em
    • All Things DOS
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 07:52:08 »
Quote from: phillip;302549
$5500 for a house wtf
Yep!  Some of the benefits and pitfalls of the economy.  Our new place isn't a mansion but for my wife anf I the size is perfect.  We don't have children, mine are grown and have kids of their own, so we don't need the extra room.  It's a 1450 square foot single story with a small back yard and came with an attatched car port. The people who lived here before had to leave Las Vegas and just left the place.  We got it through auction.  There was quite a bit of work that we wanted done so we ended up putting some money into it before we moved in.  New carpet and flooring throughout, new paint inside, replacing counter tops, but now the place looks great.  All together we have a little over $12,000 in it, and no mortgage.  We got VERY lucky.
Vintage Computer user, and collector, specializing in the IBM 5150 Personal Computer, the World\'s first REAL PC!
Keyboards - IBM Model M X 2, IBM AT X 2, IBM KB8923, Apple IIe, and Mac SE boards. 

-----------------IBM Think!---------------------
.

Offline phillip

  • Posts: 199
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 01 March 2011, 09:59:18 »
Definitely.

Offline EdwardTeach

  • Posts: 6
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 17:11:10 »
Nobody use their parents house as spillover?

I own my own apartment, but there is not a lot of storage space. I still have a lot of stuff stored at my parents. Mostly very old things which in fairness I should throw away. For example I have about 100 cassettes from the days of the sony walkman.

It is not exactly secure storage though, occasional I will come home to find possessions have been donated to charity!

Offline phillip

  • Posts: 199
Are we all pack rats?
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 02 March 2011, 18:34:32 »
My parents have way too much stuff of their own.  The house I'm living in is theirs, and it's full of their ****...and they live in arizona in another house full of stuff :/