Bought my first Model M~! 1391401

[nocturn4l3030]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=290524998007&si=9uUKqusZXJ6ZpSkKZuakib8W9z0%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT



if anyone remembers some older posts of mine.. i been buying tenkeyless boards because my keyboard tray is too small (glass desk too)... but i found a great solution by buying a matching color desk to put underneath the glass one, works perfect and i have a lot of space now.. i can even can pull it out some more for study room~!

anyway so that gave me the idea that i can buy a model m! (i was lookin for the spacesaver but was too expensive..)



I bought this because the guy listed this in the description:
"I have listed 10 IBM model M keyboards. They are all from the back office of a bank. All 10 are in excellent condition. It is rare that I find keyboards in this kind of condition. They are clean inside and out! The plastic is excellent. NO nics or Dins. No scrape marks. I cleaned off the dust, tested and listed them."

I was always hesitant to buy a Model M that wasn't new because i just don't like the idea of a used board.. but my budget can't afford a new one anymore.. but the description sold me.



also according to the IBM Wiki here, the 1391401 is:
"1391401 - often considered the quintessential Model M due to their ubiquity."


so both of those together convinced me.. -.-  i'm pretty sure I over payed.. but I didn't like the other auctions that had the standard "used" description and you didn't know if your kb will be messed up or not.



What do you model m collectors think of my purchase?  did i pay too much?  Did I get a good model/year? There's a few more from the seller too if anyone else was interested

and....

NO MORE F**** KEYBOARDS FOR ME, I'M DONE I SWEAR.  a topre realforce, blue switch, buckling spring...i swear i dont need anymore..

[kidchunks]

NO MORE F**** KEYBOARDS FOR ME, I'M DONE I SWEAR.  a topre realforce, blue switch, buckling spring...i swear i dont need anymore..

I call bluff! :biggrin:

[MissileMike]

You didn't really overpay.  Sure, you could pick up a deal on one for less, but that keyboard will last many, many years.

There really isn't a "bad" year of model M.  The 1391401 is the standard by which all other Ms are judged though, so it's a good place to start.

congrats!

[steeef]

Good luck, chief. I said that after two Model M's and a few different Cherry boards. I sold the ones I didn't want on the classifieds, but now I've got the itch to try out ALPS switches.

[nocturn4l3030]

I call bluff! :biggrin:

Good luck, chief. I said that after two Model M's and a few different Cherry boards. I sold the ones I didn't want on the classifieds, but now I've got the itch to try out ALPS switches.

no one believes me =[ i'm not sure i do either haha...

jus curious, did you buy another model m for any other reason besides for use on another computer?  yea i been selling the ones that i don't need or didn't like on classifieds too.

see i was thinking ALPS are the only switches i won't be trying.. and i gotta admit, youtubing the matias tactile keyboards for apple sounded pretty nice and got me very curious.. but i have yet to see a post here where someone claimed alps of any kind were their favorite switch.. and they didn't do too well in the favorite switch polls neither.  so i'm using that as motivation to not scratch my curiosity for alps -.-

[steeef]

no one believes me =[ i'm not sure i do either haha...

jus curious, did you buy another model m for any other reason besides for use on another computer?  yea i been selling the ones that i don't need or didn't like on classifieds too.

see i was thinking ALPS are the only switches i won't be trying.. and i gotta admit, youtubing the matias tactile keyboards for apple sounded pretty nice and got me very curious.. but i have yet to see a post here where someone claimed alps of any kind were their favorite switch.. and they didn't do too well in the favorite switch polls neither.  so i'm using that as motivation to not scratch my curiosity for alps -.-

I actually bought 3, hehe. I wanted to mod one of them to USB (work in progress. Got everything soldered, but there's a short somewhere when I put the case back on), and one of them I'd like to do a bolt mod on (missing quite a few rivets). The third one was dismantled and harvested for keycaps, springs, and barrels.

I really like Cherry blue switches for my main keyboards, but I'm still curious to try out the other types, especially some of the older, complicated ALPS.

[nocturn4l3030]

You didn't really overpay.  Sure, you could pick up a deal on one for less, but that keyboard will last many, many years.

There really isn't a "bad" year of model M.  The 1391401 is the standard by which all other Ms are judged though, so it's a good place to start.

congrats!

thanks for the info, i feel better about my purchase now.

the ibm wiki is kinda crazy but someone correct me if i'm wrong.. but the only difference between the different year models is either it's by lexington or ibm... the drainage holes..the heavier metal plate inside.. the different colored icons.. and the connection type correct? oh and build quality

only thing out of those that i care about is probably the plate inside because i think people tend to like the heavier plates from what i can tell from peoples posts... and im happy i got the heavier one.

one question i do have that i don't really see is, besides all that i mentioned above.. do any of the different models feel different in the keys? like stiffer or just feel better or anything like that?

[nocturn4l3030]

I actually bought 3, hehe. I wanted to mod one of them to USB (work in progress. Got everything soldered, but there's a short somewhere when I put the case back on), and one of them I'd like to do a bolt mod on (missing quite a few rivets). The third one was dismantled and harvested for keycaps, springs, and barrels.

I really like Cherry blue switches for my main keyboards, but I'm still curious to try out the other types, especially some of the older, complicated ALPS.

ah ic ic.. yea i think i gotta research this bolt mod i keep hearing everyone talkin about... no idea what it's about yet though

[Ghostpixel]

no one believes me =[ i'm not sure i do either haha...

jus curious, did you buy another model m for any other reason besides for use on another computer?  yea i been selling the ones that i don't need or didn't like on classifieds too.

see i was thinking ALPS are the only switches i won't be trying.. and i gotta admit, youtubing the matias tactile keyboards for apple sounded pretty nice and got me very curious.. but i have yet to see a post here where someone claimed alps of any kind were their favorite switch.. and they didn't do too well in the favorite switch polls neither.  so i'm using that as motivation to not scratch my curiosity for alps -.-

ALPS is my favorite switch I have tried cherry blues, browns, buckling and three kinds of alps. But everybody likes diffrent stuff. I took out the rubber dampers in my white (or cream) alps in my aek II, and now it types like a dream Clack clack! Love the sound when bottoming out now (which i almost always do since i suck at typing). I feel that having an extra click when going past the tactile point, like in the blues, just makes the keys feel weird, so "non clicky" alps and browns is my favs. I couldnt live without the clack when bottoming out though!

[ch_123]

thanks for the info, i feel better about my purchase now.

the ibm wiki is kinda crazy but someone correct me if i'm wrong.. but the only difference between the different year models is either it's by lexington or ibm... the drainage holes..the heavier metal plate inside.. the different colored icons.. and the connection type correct? oh and build quality

only thing out of those that i care about is probably the plate inside because i think people tend to like the heavier plates from what i can tell from peoples posts... and im happy i got the heavier one.

one question i do have that i don't really see is, besides all that i mentioned above.. do any of the different models feel different in the keys? like stiffer or just feel better or anything like that?

There's a section on this at the very bottom of the IBM wiki.

There is a sort of rough tendency that newer Model Ms are less stiff than older ones, but this is when comparing unused ones, wear is a far more important variable in key feel than vintage.

[theferenc]

There is also apparently a run of barrel plates made from lower melting point plastic. Both jpc and myself have encountered melty plastic when bolt modding.

But I have 4 IBM Model Ms, a Customizer from Unicomp, and a terminal board I dismembered for parts. I've also given as gifts 3 other Model Ms (2 Lexmark and 1 IBM).

For me, it was more an issue of keys and keyfeel. The ones I gave away all had 1 piece keys, and I do honestly prefer the feel of 2 piece keys. My Customizer was actually my first BS keyboard, and I bought the Model Ms after I saw ripster's "international" mod, so that I could modify them to my "correct" layout, and pay less than the cost of a customized Customizer (which is now nearly $100).

Plus, there's something undeniably awesome about the Model M. The feel that I could use it as a weapon to defend my home. The reaction of my office mates of "Oh! I want one of those!". The nostalgia factor.

And let us not forget the "you are using *that*?" reaction from the IT staff. Plus, properly maintained (bolt mod, swap bad springs, etc.), these things will last longer than we will. Especially since people have done controller swaps, in case the controller wears out. It definitely is the most fragile piece -- see M2 for examples.

In regards to the differences in years, I can say they are noticeably heavier the older mine are. I mean the physical mass of the board, not the key feel.

ch_123 is definitely correct. Wear and tear on the springs is really much more important to key feel than age or model number.

And if you ever decide you want a knew one, take a look at the Unicomps. Worth every penny, if you really want a new keyboard. Plus any idiosyncratic key layout desires can be dealt with if you buy new.

[nocturn4l3030]

There's a section on this at the very bottom of the IBM wiki.

There is a sort of rough tendency that newer Model Ms are less stiff than older ones, but this is when comparing unused ones, wear is a far more important variable in key feel than vintage.

ah, i didn't notice it down there -.-  thanks for pointing that out

now i have a question... both you and the wiki say "newer" Model M's are less stiff.. but there's no exact definition of "newer".  do you guys have a specific year of what's considered the new generation of model m's?  i don't see anything in the wiki.. the board i got is 1990 and i'm hoping it's one of the lesser stiff boards  

[nocturn4l3030]

ALPS is my favorite switch I have tried cherry blues, browns, buckling and three kinds of alps. But everybody likes diffrent stuff. I took out the rubber dampers in my white (or cream) alps in my aek II, and now it types like a dream Clack clack! Love the sound when bottoming out now (which i almost always do since i suck at typing). I feel that having an extra click when going past the tactile point, like in the blues, just makes the keys feel weird, so "non clicky" alps and browns is my favs. I couldnt live without the clack when bottoming out though!

you gotta be kidding me haha.... i'm so using will power right now...not doin it man not doin it....................

[nocturn4l3030]

There is also apparently a run of barrel plates made from lower melting point plastic. Both jpc and myself have encountered melty plastic when bolt modding.

But I have 4 IBM Model Ms, a Customizer from Unicomp, and a terminal board I dismembered for parts. I've also given as gifts 3 other Model Ms (2 Lexmark and 1 IBM).

For me, it was more an issue of keys and keyfeel. The ones I gave away all had 1 piece keys, and I do honestly prefer the feel of 2 piece keys. My Customizer was actually my first BS keyboard, and I bought the Model Ms after I saw ripster's "international" mod, so that I could modify them to my "correct" layout, and pay less than the cost of a customized Customizer (which is now nearly $100).

Plus, there's something undeniably awesome about the Model M. The feel that I could use it as a weapon to defend my home. The reaction of my office mates of "Oh! I want one of those!". The nostalgia factor.

And let us not forget the "you are using *that*?" reaction from the IT staff. Plus, properly maintained (bolt mod, swap bad springs, etc.), these things will last longer than we will. Especially since people have done controller swaps, in case the controller wears out. It definitely is the most fragile piece -- see M2 for examples.

In regards to the differences in years, I can say they are noticeably heavier the older mine are. I mean the physical mass of the board, not the key feel.

ch_123 is definitely correct. Wear and tear on the springs is really much more important to key feel than age or model number.

And if you ever decide you want a knew one, take a look at the Unicomps. Worth every penny, if you really want a new keyboard. Plus any idiosyncratic key layout desires can be dealt with if you buy new.

yea i was thinking of going the unicomp way but i read two reviews here that said they were disappointed in the way the unicomp was built.. which is disappointing considering the price.. so i couldn't go that way even though i wanted a new board.

hm i was thinking my board had the metal plate so i don't have to do the plate mod that i jus read about.. but the pictures look like it's plastic.. or it could be behind the plastic i'm seeing in the pic. i guess i'll find out when i get it.

and lol ... i think my mom and friends are going to give me the weirdest looks when they see that board.. i wonder if my mom will know what it is because she's been a programmer since the 80's.. but i think she's rather going to give me the dirty look and my friends are going to give me the wtf?? look (all gamers)

[theferenc]

ripster, you obviously missed the part in that discussion about it being a new bit, and it not happening on the SECOND keyboard I did, but rather the FIRST.

Suspect all you want, but you're still wrong.

[theferenc]

We're talking about the brown one. And I would grant you use error if I didn't test it several more times without hiccup, followed by jpc having the EXACT SAME ISSUE with a keyboard made within a month of the one it happened to me with.

And considering how many he's done, and only ONCE has he seen this...I would say it's a rare situation, possibly a short lived run of lower quality plastic.

But clearly, investigation and the scientific method mean nothing to you, so it isn't worth trying to explain this any further.

[keyb_gr]

hm i was thinking my board had the metal plate so i don't have to do the plate mod that i jus read about.. but the pictures look like it's plastic.. or it could be behind the plastic i'm seeing in the pic. i guess i'll find out when i get it.

What you see from the top is the (plastic) barrel plate. Under that there's the hammers, membrane sheets and finally the metal base plate. The whole sandwich is kept together with the infamous plastic rivets.

and lol ... i think my mom and friends are going to give me the weirdest looks when they see that board.. i wonder if my mom will know what it is because she's been a programmer since the 80's..

Quite likely so, at least if she worked with PCs or other IBM systems. At this opportunity, you may want to mention that it is still possible to buy just about the same kind of board brand new, made in the good ol' US of A no less; that should make for a surprise...

[ch_123]

There is also apparently a run of barrel plates made from lower melting point plastic. Both jpc and myself have encountered melty plastic when bolt modding.

This is interesting. There are different coloured plastics used for the upper assembly - some are white, some are black, some are brownish. What makes it even more odd is that Model Ms were being produced with different coloured upper assemblies at the same time, and there seems to be some sort of correlation between plastic colour and plant number (the white plastic ones seem to be particularly common from Plant F7). Of course, what exactly the Plant Number corresponds to is one of the great mysteries of the IBM keyboard world.

now i have a question... both you and the wiki

I am the wiki

say "newer" Model M's are less stiff.. but there's no exact definition of "newer". do you guys have a specific year of what's considered the new generation of model m's? i don't see anything in the wiki.. the board i got is 1990 and i'm hoping it's one of the lesser stiff boards

It's left deliberately vague because over time they loosened the tolerances for the springs (one of the guys at Unicomp told me this). I have a November 1985 Model M that is practically painful to type on, whereas ones from the later 1980/early 90s are less stiff, and the late 90s/Unicomp ones are probably less stiffer still.

As for the quality of Unicomp, they may not be up to the same standard as the older IBMs, but they're still better than most stuff that is being currently made.

[keyb_gr]

You know - sometimes the others get something right, too. Just sayin'...

[theferenc]

Out of curiosity, ripster, have you gone through a phd program? Also, my background is in physics, so I have a solid grounding in labratory science.

I definitely have the background necessary to tell when a conclusion is incorrect -- which yours is. Also, the tests you refer to are destructive. Which is essentially useless if I want to continue to use the keyboard.

Look, the fact of the matter is, even IBM turned out a bad batch of product here and there. And since they sourced the plastic from third parties (checked this with a former IBM VP from the 80s), you're adding another party in the product chain.

God forbid you be wrong about something though.

Edit: Oh, and ripster, you can stop making nasty comments about my abilities, intelligence, and general skill level. Implying that a phd program is easier today vs. some fond yesteryear...I think you can figure out where you can shove that.

[Ghostpixel]

you gotta be kidding me haha.... i'm so using will power right now...not doin it man not doin it....................

Lucky for me im used to being picked on :/ But ye, its the truth! Have to say though that i havnt tried the cherrys in a solid built case like filco, and i havnt tried topre, so i might change my mind then.

[ch_123]

Very clearly the plastic is at least somewhat different given that it's a different colour. Unlesss Ripster has taken a sample of each one and carried out tests on each one, I'm going to agree that theferenc's assessment is plausible.

[ch_123]

That's different because there's a very obvious aesthetic reason for it. With the inner assembly, you barely see it anyway, so why would they bother dying it different colours?