Info + Help Leading to Purchase

[TheStentch]

I'll start off like this.

First of all if you could be addicted to computers thats basically me. I use a computer 14+ hours a day (work + home + gaming, etc..) I have been interested in mechanical keyboards for over two years but I never gave it the time of day.

Today I have been reading the keyboard forums for i would say 8 hours while going back and forth and searching terms etc.

I know I am new and hey maybe I have to earn my right to own one of these bad boys tell me what I have to do and stop reading right now. If not thank you for helping and keep reading.

I have read your (when I say your I am speaking to all of you, any recent posts and also posts on a specific item) posts today for a looong time, I've come to understand your descriptions and what the difference in tactile to linear is, the different colors of mx switches and even the opinions of torpe vs cherry.

I almost even ordered one using taobao however I stopped myself, I am here tonight to ask all of you... any of you. If you would

A: Provide info as to what you use and why, and/or

B: read my description below of what features I want and my price point and help me out.

Either my brain is numb or I will have to buy 10 keyboards and hug them all in my sleep. To prevent this I need you! LOL

I thank you for all the articles and posts and discussions it has helped me learn all day today and I want to make this step. I must get away from the demon I am typing on right now I never realized how ugly and hard it was to type on until I read the beautiful descriptions of mechanical keyboards.

Now onto the details of what I think I want from what all of you have taught me.

Switch type - I do not want blacks, I hate going all the way down to the 'thud' point even on the crappy 10 dollar keyboard I am using now. In my mind a scissor switch is too 'light' and a crappy rubber cheap keyboard is too 'heavy' I would like it as light as possible without feeling like a scissor, (if this is possible at all?) I am leaning towards cherry over torpe.

Price point - I just want to be happy, 100-300 dollars before custom keysets etc.

Keys - Either the indented type ( i am sorry i forget the actual name they are called) where the letters are 'inset' or nothing at all. Also colors are cool I would like to experiment with purchasing different key sets in the future to find my perfect style.

Multiple Input / Rollover - At least 6, the more the merrier.

Aesthetics - I fancy old school / retro over led back lit logitech pieces of crap. I really like the following.

here http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se05c0 with the purple wasd and red esc

And as I said no print or 'inset' font on all keys, i like the minimalistic design of the filco the HH2boards etc

Sidenote - I heard Cherry is making 104 boards (blue i think?) coming for sale in america however they look super boring even if they do work well.

I can provide proof of pictures that I am real and will provide an update after both my transaction with you pizza/paypal and a update with a separate thread thanking all of you along with a detailed post of my thoughts on said item pictures included .

I am now driving home and will be able to read the thread in about an hour or so.

Thank you for reading and whoever provides me with info leading to a purchase of recommended item will receive 20 dollars via paypal.  if you are in the US I will have pizza delivered to your door etc etc just recommend something.

I hope as my relationship with you all progresses here at geekhack I will one day own a board and know how to repair it customize it etc etc.

--TheStentch

[TheStentch]

Thanks ripster, i figured ill wrap my hello post and a question in one

Ok so about that part.

I was reading on here for a few hours. Decided to start shopping around my lunch break just to get a view of my own. Most things that I don't like from opinion consensus and features about specific switchs turned me off. While browsing I noticed Newegg sold a few Cherry branded boards, I also noticed you guys never speak of actual cherry boards only other boards with their switches I sorta just assumed they were subpar but just for kicks I started a support IM with one of their guys his name was Ed.

This dude apparently gets alot of USA ppl contacting him saying where can we buy x or y and hes always like we dont even sell to the US.

So he decided to record each time this happened and finally convince them to look at his data and see there was a demand.

I was inquiring about the g84 minis i believe? i like the cut versions hehe.

He gave me the weights in ounces instead of grams so while i was doing conversions (im terrible at math and all that jive) he was like thats the blue no thats the brown weight blue is this. (i forget the numbers but they didnt even match up to what i have read on here so i was like hmmmm) anyway he said ML switches are in the minis at the moment i said no thanks from what i read here. he said they will be coming April 19th roughly and CDW will be the main seller and PC(somethign) PChouse??? i cant remember.

Anywho, he added me to this list that he personally will send out emails to about updates with the mx products coming to america that they sell. If there is an intrest I will totally update you guys.

I also then called my CDW contact and he put me on his list for once they get him in so i can buy one to try it out i also told him there is a demand to know the resistance in grams which they currently do not list on any product, he is goign to contact his Cherry rep and get the info for the new products coming.

Now these don't look to be gaming keyboards at all just good work machine type boards very plain the offwhite and lots of labeling all over the keys lol.

I doubt ed would lead me on he seemed like a nice dude, and i await his and CDW's emails

[keyboardlover]

Anywho, he added me to this list that he personally will send out emails to about updates with the mx products coming to america that they sell. If there is an intrest I will totally update you guys.

That's really cool...welcome to GeekHack and I'm definitely interested to get on the email list or whatever...

[TheStentch]

That's really cool...welcome to GeekHack and I'm definitely interested to get on the email list or whatever...

Cool thanks for the welcome

I can't get you on the list since it was just one of the IM support techs however you can go here.

http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/keyboards/index.htm

And keep connecting hoping you get Ed. Talk to him about the cherry keyboards switches etc basically show you love their product im sure if you befriend him and ask in a round about way about when you can buy mini's with MX switches etc he will tell you he can put you on a list.

Now don't get angry at me if he doesn't I didnt even know it would happen i was just sorta bsin with him and crap and he was like you know what ill put you ont he list what is your email.

/wave im glad to be here

and you all have instilled an insane intrest in keyboard types i am now home giving a lecture to my sister and a friend lol topre cherry crappy membrane aka the free to 10 dollar ones we use at the moment. and why these are better. my sister actually understands and is cool with me buying a 2-3 hundred dollar keyboard i figured she would call me crazy i guess she understands my nerdom.

[keyboardlover]

I would say G80-3XXX XXXX

Can't forget the 3494, 3464, etc.!

[TheStentch]

So the G80's are where its at with their boards? gotcha I will try if i develop further dialog. If the new ones in april receive good sales in the US im sure they will listen to him for their next business decision. I mean its not like they need to make us a special keyboard right? They just have to ship it to us? I mean yea i know the keys matter because of the language but why refuse to sell to another country?

also why is it so limited to get mechanical keyboards here in the US? to me it makes no sense..

[TheStentch]

I have an idea if I develop further dialog with Ed and/or CDW, I think it might be possible with enough arm turning if we put together a buy group for specific models I am wondering if Ed could pull some strings and make it happen?

i.e. we pool funds have whoever be elected to control it, it lands at said persons house, they redistribute it and mail them out to us? (wondering if they would rather forklift it to one location instead of mail 1 kb out to each of us?)

come up with a strat if that is a good idea and i will try to grease the wheels fr the 80s' i say pick 1 exact model we start with to see if they will bite then move bigger and more variety?

[manfaux]

Elitekeyboards should be stocking Leopoldz in mid-march, if you are not in a hurry I'd suggest waiting for that, they look quite promising

[manfaux]

Elitekeyboards should be stocking Leopoldz in mid-march, if you are not in a hurry I'd suggest waiting for that, they look quite promising

Oh if you want black on black key caps or just blank key caps you'll have to get them separately. Leopolds are fully compatible with all those cherry mx key caps out there(except for the space bar, we'll all waiting for a solution on that), the purple WASD cluster and red ESC keys are readily available too, I heard you like them.

[TheStentch]

Oh if you want black on black key caps or just blank key caps you'll have to get them separately. Leopolds are fully compatible with all those cherry mx key caps out there(except for the space bar, we'll all waiting for a solution on that), the purple WASD cluster and red ESC keys are readily available too, I heard you like them.

Elitekeyboards should be stocking Leopoldz in mid-march, if you are not in a hurry I'd suggest waiting for that, they look quite promising

Hey thanks for responding and the hello

Ive heard they are close to a Filco I remember seeing a thread comparing them?

The other thing is I always hate buying the first line of anything. I have plenty of time on hand but I do want to get away from this pos HP keyboard that came free with a desktop (we have hundreds at work).

I currently struggling deciding between cherry and topre... a starter cherry DAS thinking (brown those are the more sensitive aka lighter feel) are easy to get my hands on and it is cheaper than the other choice and it seems there are more custom caps? The
realforce 86u, im guessing the king of the topre? but what about customization the purple and red i totally like on a dark keyboard totally.... /drools

I think what I will end up doing is this weekend get a Realforce 86u white with 5 red keys unless I can find other places to get small qty of colors of topre caps. Or get the dark with red esc and purple wasd then ill be set. then wait for the above lol.... /sigh its a back and forth with me

[theferenc]

You really can't go wrong with the Realforce keyboards. If you get the white, you can always dye the keys, as well.

While I love my HHKB, it's layout is just different enough that it merits a warning for most people. If you are very attached to ANSI and/or a touch typist, the HHKB may be a poor choice. If you're a UNIX person, it's the perfect choice.

It is unlikely that you would dislike the Realforce, but even if you did, they tend to sell well here, so you wouldn't be out much. Plus, it has that nice light feel you want, without feeling too light.

There are definitely more customization options with a Cherry board (especially here at geekhack), but those white topre keycaps take dye super well, as do the IBM key caps (if you want to go buckling spring at all, look in to Unicomp).

Hope that helps!

[TheStentch]

You really can't go wrong with the Realforce keyboards. If you get the white, you can always dye the keys, as well.

While I love my HHKB, it's layout is just different enough that it merits a warning for most people. If you are very attached to ANSI and/or a touch typist, the HHKB may be a poor choice. If you're a UNIX person, it's the perfect choice.

It is unlikely that you would dislike the Realforce, but even if you did, they tend to sell well here, so you wouldn't be out much. Plus, it has that nice light feel you want, without feeling too light.

There are definitely more customization options with a Cherry board (especially here at geekhack), but those white topre keycaps take dye super well, as do the IBM key caps (if you want to go buckling spring at all, look in to Unicomp).

Hope that helps!

Thanks that does help I will look into buckling spring however from how the other two technologies were touted on here I doubt i will like its feel any better BUTTTT they are pretty cheap for one day i go out and scoop one up just to try it.

I am leaning toward a white one now with 5 red blanks until i do anything else with it.

Dying plastics that is something you can do 'homebrew' in a sense lol? I did like the minimalisticness of the hhk but i didnt like its layout.

eta till realforce 24:00 hours

[theferenc]

Yeah, around here Cherry is definitely the preferred switch type. I'm mostly a buckling spring and topre guy, with a bit of alps tossed in for good measure.

But I just really don't like the feel of the Cherry switches. Even the blues feel mushier than I would like. I'm in the minority though, so for a first board, Cherry is a good choice if you want to save money, a realforce if you want awesomeness at any price.

But there's a reason the Model M is still so revered. Buckling springs just feel so damn nice. And I love when I'm on the phone and people ask if I'm using an "old typewriter". Dorky, I admit, but that's just how I am.

As for the dye, you can definitely do it at home. Get some Rit dye (I use the liquid, others use the powder), add it to hot water, and toss in the keys. Just be careful with temperatures, especially on the larger keys. Takes about 15-20 minutes total time to dye a batch of keys, then just wait for them to dry completely. Take a look at turbocharged's (that's really awkward to say...) mod on the topic for the IBM keys, if you want to see how an example of how it turns out.

[bugfix]

[Buckling springs] doubt i will like its feel any better

Pah! I'd pick buckling springs over a Cherry switch any given day.

Topre is a good choice btw. though they might not feel dramatically different from a rubber dome at first.

[pm_]

IMO, you can't go wrong with Cherry blues or browns.  I'd say the same for Topre, but I have no experience with them yet, save to say that I guarantee I will eventually try one, even if it means spending $250 on one.

Regarding blues and browns:
Feel:
Browns take less force to actuate, about 45g, vs 55g on the blues.  The blues seem to have a tighter and bouncier feel, whereas the browns are smoother, lighter and have a more subtle bump to them.  What's kind of odd, is that when I use the browns, I just fly along the keys without regards as to whether I bottom them out or not. When I use the blues, at least while "learning" them, I'm making an almost subconscious effort to not bottom them out, and it's slowing me down as I'm definitely making more errors on them as a result.

Sound:
I think they both put out a similar level of noise, where the browns are more thwack thwack thwack, the the blues are a higher pitched click click click.  The browns are probably less intrusive when typing on an every day basis, may be more annoying to co-workers or a spouse, but I think they may actually be a bit louder overall, as the spacebar on my browns activates my MIC while gaming a lot more than the spacebar on my blues.  However, that might be due more to the design of the spacebar on the brown board. The distinctly different sound of either board doesn't bother me at all though.

Gaming:
I've put both switches through 1 night of FPS gaming (Quake Live), and am still trying to make up my mind here.  Its easier to hear/feel the actuation point on the blues than it is the browns.  Where this matters to me is that I have +attack bound to my space bar, and with the blues, it's easier to tell precisely when I activate it.  Part of this may be due to the spacebar on this Cherry POS board that has the browns, as the key feels a little loose and not as well stabilized as it should.  With brown switches, I expect a better feeling spacebar out of a Filco/Ducky/Leopold.  Beyond the spacebar, I don't think it really matters if you game with one vs. the other, and it would just come down to adjusting a little bit.

All that being said, both my boards are borrowed, and I kind of love both.  There's a very real chance I end up with boards using both switches, and eventually a Topre, so no matter what switch you choose, I think you'll end up happy with it.  

A few questions for you:
Are you set on a tenkeyless?

How soon must you make this purchase?

Do you require that the purchase be made from a US vendor, or would you buy from overseas?

Depending on your answers to those 3 questions, excluding a HHKB, a Realforce may be your only option...

[TheStentch]

Yeah, around here Cherry is definitely the preferred switch type. I'm mostly a buckling spring and topre guy, with a bit of alps tossed in for good measure.

But I just really don't like the feel of the Cherry switches. Even the blues feel mushier than I would like. I'm in the minority though, so for a first board, Cherry is a good choice if you want to save money, a realforce if you want awesomeness at any price.

But there's a reason the Model M is still so revered. Buckling springs just feel so damn nice. And I love when I'm on the phone and people ask if I'm using an "old typewriter". Dorky, I admit, but that's just how I am.

As for the dye, you can definitely do it at home. Get some Rit dye (I use the liquid, others use the powder), add it to hot water, and toss in the keys. Just be careful with temperatures, especially on the larger keys. Takes about 15-20 minutes total time to dye a batch of keys, then just wait for them to dry completely. Take a look at turbocharged's (that's really awkward to say...) mod on the topic for the IBM keys, if you want to see how an example of how it turns out.

Wow very interesting about the dyes tyvm for the name drop

So thast what buckling spring is I HAVE USED IT before hahah I was wondering. No I don't liek that, the noise is wonderful and you do get nerd points for it sounding like that but unless the ibm m model i used was just that old (i know they are all old but its relative) here is what happened when i touched them.

If I lay a finger gently on it and goin in parrallel with the floor? up down left right without pressing vertically down it would always sorta move around, for gaming I would hate this.

For typing it would be a wondrous sound to the ears and make it sound like you are working four times as hard than the next person lol.

So far my reasoning is try the best of a topre maybe you will be suprised, and if nothing else like you guys said I could sell it back or hell just keep it im sure i wont 'hate' it.

Then wait for a better consensus to come out on the new leos ? or try to get a noppoo choc mini.

again thank you this back and forth with you all has been much enlightening.

[TheStentch]

Pah! I'd pick buckling springs over a Cherry switch any given day.

Topre is a good choice btw. though they might not feel dramatically different from a rubber dome at first.

IMO, you can't go wrong with Cherry blues or browns. I'd say the same for Topre, but I have no experience with them yet, save to say that I guarantee I will eventually try one, even if it means spending $250 on one. ...

ive heard you and others now say its close to a rubber dome which isnt nearly as costly so what is so amazing abotu the realforce is it that hard to explain that i just must try one, sort of like explaining sex to a child? lol? (sorry i figured it was a good reference of the unknown)

and pm_ is swaying me back towards a cherry blue das since its pretty accessible here, his comment about the browns almost bottoming out which i dont really want makes me go towards blues esp with the idea that you can listen for them to actuate before they bottom out while playing a game, this would add a layer of responsiveness to my gaming which my ears could monitor so I know i pressed spacebar already etc. very interesting.

is the DAS a decent blue for the price? or should i look into another model?

Remember I mainly want to use my first keyboard i get for gaming, id have to say im pretty aware and in my prime have gone to regional and national level so im observant as to everything you guys are explaining about when they activate etc

and also just like alot of you guys it seems i too will end up owning more than one just so i can try them all out hhahaha

[TheStentch]

A few questions for you:
Are you set on a tenkeyless?

No but I am so indecisive and both sound so great ill never make a decision, in life atleast with myself personally, if i dont push and just pick something ill never make a move.

How soon must you make this purchase?

As soon as possible really im very eager to try either switch type.

Do you require that the purchase be made from a US vendor, or would you buy from overseas?

I will buy from anywhere even a single person overseas, i tried using fsszz(i hope i didnt spell it wrong) his guide to using that one website to purchase but every mixture of characters on google translate nothing looked like north america, united states etc so i gave up. But they had filcos... for some reason i still want that.

Depending on your answers to those 3 questions, excluding a HHKB, a Realforce may be your only option...


it will probably be a realforce if nothing else, but if possible i would like tips / walkthrough on how to purchase from non usa, and actually if i dont like a filco a choc mini or a realforce (my top 3 pics from reading opinion posts on here and also reviews of keyboards) i can always post them on here just incase right?

Also thank you for your input and nice meeting you

[bugfix]

is the DAS a decent blue for the price? or should i look into another model?

Yes, I had one myself. The only real downside is that it is glossy.

If you are a student, they offer $25(?) discount btw.

[TheStentch]

Yes, I had one myself. The only real downside is that it is glossy.

If you are a student, they offer $25(?) discount btw.

Interesting tyvm for the input

[pm_]

Also thank you for your input and nice meeting you

BTW, welcome to Geekhack!  I'm pretty new here too, and have been reading the forums since December.

If you buy one of the more exclusive (Realforce), or hard to get in the states keyboards (Filco, Noppoo Choc Mini), you'd probably get within 20% of your purchase price if you resold it, if not 10%...kind of in line with a restocking fee.

Regarding the Realforce keyboards, I read they are somewhat similar to, but better than the "higher" end Keytronic keyboards...perhaps a smoother keystroke requiring less force.  I have the Keytronic Designer P2, and it's decent for typing, and good for gaming, so I'd expect the Realforce is good at typing and gaming.  Not to mention better build quality and tenkeyless. I'm not sure if I'd prefer variable weight keys (35g - 55g) or an all 55g board.  I think a few people have said they notice the difference in the weights when gaming and would prefer they all be the same weight.

One other comment on the browns, while I do tend to bottom them out, it's not like I'm pounding them.  It does feel harder to not bottom out the browns then the blues, but I don't feel it makes much of a difference, except the thwack thwack is louder.

[TheStentch]

Ok so UPDATE!!

I just got a Filco tenkeyless green from AG.

I decided to bear the language barrier and figure out how the hell to translate the dropdown boxes (everything else was translating..) i finally figured it out and bought one! whooooo hooooooo.

Thank you all of you

Also about the 20 dollars that is real, I do not know how to choose a winner all of you have wonderful opinions and I will probably own atleast one of each switch type down the road. My goal is to have a leo a filco a noppo and a realforce by the end of the year

(no life, no gf, and tons of over time at work = toys for me hahahah!)

If the community would like to choose a 'winner' I wouldnt mind giving it to whomever. I can donate it to the geekhack beer and pizza fund? or a charity of all of your choices?

please let me know what to do i am also going to create a its in the mail post for congruency.

Again thank you all, nice meeting all of you and I hope to learn enough about all of this down the road so i can be a more valid part of the community

~peace and love~
-TheStentch

[manfaux]

Ok so UPDATE!!

I just got a Filco tenkeyless green from AG.

I decided to bear the language barrier and figure out how the hell to translate the dropdown boxes (everything else was translating..) i finally figured it out and bought one! whooooo hooooooo.

Thank you all of you

Also about the 20 dollars that is real, I do not know how to choose a winner all of you have wonderful opinions and I will probably own atleast one of each switch type down the road. My goal is to have a leo a filco a noppo and a realforce by the end of the year

(no life, no gf, and tons of over time at work = toys for me hahahah!)

If the community would like to choose a 'winner' I wouldnt mind giving it to whomever. I can donate it to the geekhack beer and pizza fund? or a charity of all of your choices?

please let me know what to do i am also going to create a its in the mail post for congruency.

Again thank you all, nice meeting all of you and I hope to learn enough about all of this down the road so i can be a more valid part of the community

~peace and love~
-TheStentch

great! you will definitely enjoy your Filco. Can never really go wrong with them.

As for the $20, give it to iMav!

[TheStentch]

great! you will definitely enjoy your Filco. Can never really go wrong with them.

As for the $20, give it to iMav!

I figured it was less expensive and a way to taste both the filco name and the blue switches all in one.

Don't beat me but who is iMav ? is that someones nick i dont see them here?

[TheStentch]

I see I went further down the rabbit hole. Site Admin. Sure Def that is a good choice how do i do that? heh

[theferenc]

iMav is the guy who runs the forum. And I second this. Get in touch with him, see if you can contribute the $20 to help defray the cost of the site.

Or buy a geekhack key for $20 or something.

Without him, none of us would be here to give you answers.

You know, the funny thing is I totally missed the mention of the $20. I just like to help people find a keyboard they will like :-).

[TheStentch]

iMav is the guy who runs the forum. And I second this. Get in touch with him, see if you can contribute the $20 to help defray the cost of the site.

Or buy a geekhack key for $20 or something.

Without him, none of us would be here to give you answers.

You know, the funny thing is I totally missed the mention of the $20. I just like to help people find a keyboard they will like :-).

Hehe well thanks for helping

that is a great idea i will try to contact imav via pm (are newbies allowed to pm uppers?) if not maybe someone else let him know in passing by?

To be honest i havent browsed the rest of the site much so what is a geek key and the sounds of it we have some sort of shop?

[3one5]

I see you bought from AG, what exactly is AG?  I'm new here myself and trying to absorb as much as I can.  I finally decided on a Rosewill RK-9000 for my first board because they were fairly inexpensive, readily available and used the Cherry Blue switches.  It was delivered on Thursday and I fell in love.  Since then I've picked up a Cherry ML-4100 and a Noppoo Choc Cherry Mini.  Still need 1 more for home and one for work.

[pm_]

great! you will definitely enjoy your Filco. Can never really go wrong with them.

As for the $20, give it to iMav!

Seconded!

Enjoy your cherry blues!  The next question is, how long till you buy another mech?

[3one5]

I forgot to mention that I have a good contact at CDW as the company I work for does a lot of business with them.  I'll give him a call when I get back into the office to see what I can find out.

[manfaux]

Hehe well thanks for helping

that is a great idea i will try to contact imav via pm (are newbies allowed to pm uppers?) if not maybe someone else let him know in passing by?

To be honest i havent browsed the rest of the site much so what is a geek key and the sounds of it we have some sort of shop?

the Geekhack key is just a custom double-shot key cap that says "Geek Hack" on it, just for geekhacker pride, y'know. (look @ my avatar)

iMav mass orders them and we buy from him, he does a color rotation every month, we had white lettering on red, orange lettering on black, etc. they look like this:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10153

There is a ongoing thread  for ordering them in the group buy section, maybe he's still has some extras left for this month that you can buy.

[TheStentch]

I see you bought from AG, what exactly is AG?  I'm new here myself and trying to absorb as much as I can.  I finally decided on a Rosewill RK-9000 for my first board because they were fairly inexpensive, readily available and used the Cherry Blue switches.  It was delivered on Thursday and I fell in love.  Since then I've picked up a Cherry ML-4100 and a Noppoo Choc Cherry Mini.  Still need 1 more for home and one for work.

AG is armygroup i didnt know geekhacks policy on posting other websites so i just called it that.

others have big threads on how to navigate the site use translator etc to purchase. i want a choc mini blue badly...

i got a filco blue so we will see how i like that one then ill either go laterally to a diff switch or up to a diff board with cherrys

basically just read through all of the popular thread in the keyboard forum everything you ened to know is there to get a basic understanding the members here have great descriptive opinions of the fine interworkings of how they feel together it helps you decide which to purchase the rest is up to you. and hello friend

[TheStentch]

Seconded!

Enjoy your cherry blues!  The next question is, how long till you buy another mech?

totally going to enjoy, ill be buying another in i would say 2-4 months I want to have a good run with this one coming but I am already addicted i want more more more!! either a realforce or a leo and a bs and/or choc mini we will see, at first i would rather try variety over roughly the same switch then branch out to sub varieties of the same switch? if that makes any sense but def soon.