Leopold at EK up for realz

[Armando Penblade]

It's odd that the email is worded that way, because Bruce of EliteKeyboards recently said in what I thought were pretty clear terms that the price was set very specifically at $99:

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=303876&postcount=51

No idea, though.

[Suchadropper]

It wasn't really a pre-order in the Amazon sense (i.e., order now, it'll ship on X date, pay when it ships). This was more of an order now, pay now, sit around and wait until it ships on a date TBD.

Call me cynical, but I wonder if EK has even ordered the boards yet, or if our pre-orders are fronting the capital for that.

That could be true. I might cancel one today.

[iMav]

I really couldn't care less whether the preorders are funding the initial order or not.  Whatever he has to do to get rolling with the new 'boards is fine with me.

[Brummell]

Anyone get a confirmation email from EK yet?  (

Last night at around 3AM.

[ThoughtThief]

Also got my confirmation last night around 3am EST.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

I'm tempted to pick up my first tenkeyless, but strictly speaking, I don't need it.

I have the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch "Otaku" NKRO (in @ EK for warranty service), ABS M1 (stolen by my father), a Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch (stolen by my brother), a Rosewill RK-9000 (currently using), and a BlackWidow (currently in the living room).

So mentally (a.k.a., me tricking myself) I only have two keyboards (since that's all that I have in front of me). However if I want an experimental board I might was well pick up a Topre tenkeyless, but then I'm making two changes at once (Torpe switches/form factor). I could hate the tenkeyless or the topre switch and then hate the board as a whole.

Ah, choices...

Also, the budget only permits one, and the Topre would be a stretch, so don't recommend both.

[nvarsj]

I ordered one as well. I've regretted selling my Filco - and after hearing some blue cherries in action recently, I can't help myself. I need a click!

[3one5]

Also got my confirmation last night around 3am EST.

Me 3 but mine came in at 12:53am which means I'll probably get mine first

[Chobopants]

Ok I waffled a lot on the tenkeyless thing but after some thought I decided that this was the best way for me to have a cherry blue board (and support one of our own as well):

FC200RC/AB Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Click Keyboard
Item# 460   $99.00 USD   1   $99.00 USD
CF5F-SKU-1BLU Blue Skull Keycap (Row 5+6, CherryMX)
Item# 3002   $9.50 USD   2   $19.00 USD

[manfaux]

It wasn't really a pre-order in the Amazon sense (i.e., order now, it'll ship on X date, pay when it ships). This was more of an order now, pay now, sit around and wait until it ships on a date TBD.

That's how pre-ordering works son, you have to pay first. What's the last time you pre ordered something and they didn't take your money first?

[mjacob]

What's the last time you pre ordered something and they didn't take your money first?

Uhhh... every time I've pre-ordered something from Amazon.

[manfaux]

Uhhh... every time I've pre-ordered something from Amazon.

and guess what, EK isn't a multi-billion-dollar enterprise like Amazon, and Amazon never guarantees the actual shipment date, you can pre order diablo 3 right now ffs.

[EZjiji]

Does a Red esc key and a key puller come with the keyboard? The EK confirmation email says something about being allowed to separately ship items.

[hansmuff]

Does a Red esc key and a key puller come with the keyboard? The EK confirmation email says something about being allowed to separately ship items.

Actually, the product page states in detail what comes with the package. A red Esc key and/or puller aren't part of it.

[duckyduck]

and guess what, EK isn't a multi-billion-dollar enterprise like Amazon, and Amazon never guarantees the actual shipment date, you can pre order diablo 3 right now ffs.

Being a small business does not make you exempt from agreements with credit card companies. Of the big 3 at least Mastercard does not allow the card to be charged before the product is shipped.

[phillip]

and guess what, EK isn't a multi-billion-dollar enterprise like Amazon, and Amazon never guarantees the actual shipment date, you can pre order diablo 3 right now ffs.

Well, you did ask the question.  I've preordered from other places that haven't charged me until the item ships (store.nisamerica.com is an example).  I don't care if EK charges and ships later, provided the boards actually ship at the end of march.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Being a small business does not make you exempt from agreements with credit card companies. Of the big 3 at least Mastercard does not allow the card to be charged before the product is shipped.

What part of the Mastercard Merchant agreement prevents charging stuff before shipping? It is a more common practice to do an authorization hold which merely falls off after a period of time if it is not turned into a formal charge (guaranteeing the availability of funds forgiving the account getting suspended, etc.), but can go to a formal charge if it ships. That's more common, but I don't know if it is explicitly against the rules to charge people before an item ships.

Also, Paypal is the payment facilitator and holds the payment in escrow - they charge the card, then fund the money to EK. If there's a dispute PayPal gets involved. So as a payment facilitator PayPal operates under different rules.

(if you have a dispute with Paypal, you can dispute with your credit card company...but if you have a dispute with the seller, and you just go to the card company, they'll freeze your paypal account)

[neo]

Many businesses will only charge your credit card when they are ready to ship. EliteKeyboards apparently charges immediately even though the shipment date is still at least three weeks away and isn't known precisely. It is an inconvenience no doubt, but only a minor one assuming boards actually ship when promised.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Many businesses will only charge your credit card when they are ready to ship. EliteKeyboards apparently charges immediately even though the shipment date is still at least three weeks away and isn't known precisely. It is an inconvenience no doubt, but only a minor one assuming boards actually ship when promised.

Again, most businesses do not use Paypal, EK does. I don't think Paypal allows such a behavior.

Any merchant with brains does an authorization hold at the time of the order being placed if they don't charge immediately. That immediately impacts the available balance but does not formally hit the card. That authorization hold is why it can be easy to overdraft a debit card when you go to a gas station - it typically tries to place an authorization hold of $50 or more. Once you have an actual amount, the actual charge goes through for the authorization hold amount or less.

[Chobopants]

Again, most businesses do not use Paypal, EK does. I don't think Paypal allows such a behavior.

Any merchant with brains does an authorization hold at the time of the order being placed if they don't charge immediately. That immediately impacts the available balance but does not formally hit the card. That authorization hold is why it can be easy to overdraft a debit card when you go to a gas station - it typically tries to place an authorization hold of $50 or more. Once you have an actual amount, the actual charge goes through for the authorization hold amount or less.

This is quite true. Back when I was a college kid with my first real debit card I got hit with a number of overdrafts due to this. I quickly learned to keep a few hundred $ buffer in my checking account.

[manfaux]

Well, you did ask the question.  I've preordered from other places that haven't charged me until the item ships (store.nisamerica.com is an example).  

Great stores, good for you, and I can name 2000 other stores that charge you for pre-orders, but I'm not going to right now am I.

[phillip]

What's the last time you pre ordered something and they didn't take your money first?

You're the one who asked the ****ing question.  You didn't specify that amazon or other major business was exempt from being an answer.

[neo]

Again, most businesses do not use Paypal, EK does.

There is your problem.

[manfaux]

You're the one who asked the ****ing question.  You didn't specify that amazon or other major business was exempt from being an answer.

Easy dude, there is no need to rage here, we are just buying some keyboards.

[manfaux]

What part of the Mastercard Merchant agreement prevents charging stuff before shipping? It is a more common practice to do an authorization hold which merely falls off after a period of time if it is not turned into a formal charge (guaranteeing the availability of funds forgiving the account getting suspended, etc.), but can go to a formal charge if it ships. That's more common, but I don't know if it is explicitly against the rules to charge people before an item ships.

Also, Paypal is the payment facilitator and holds the payment in escrow - they charge the card, then fund the money to EK. If there's a dispute PayPal gets involved. So as a payment facilitator PayPal operates under different rules.

(if you have a dispute with Paypal, you can dispute with your credit card company...but if you have a dispute with the seller, and you just go to the card company, they'll freeze your paypal account)

this.

[mjacob]

Easy dude, there is no need to rage here, we are just buying some keyboards.

I think it's been established fairly well that no one is actually buying keyboards yet. We're paying for keyboards. We will have bought the keyboards when the vendor ships said keyboards.

[manfaux]

I think it's been established fairly well that no one is actually buying keyboards yet. We're paying for keyboards. We will have bought the keyboards when the vendor ships said keyboards.

Think of it this way - EK is merely a proxy shipping agency who takes your order and handles the oversea shipping hassles. You keyboards are officially purchased, it's just going to takes 3 weeks for them to get here.

[celery]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Satisfaktion]

I really couldn't care less whether the preorders are funding the initial order or not.  Whatever he has to do to get rolling with the new 'boards is fine with me.

I agree with this. While you guys are arguing over credit card payments I'm trying to figure out how I want to customize mine and what to do to my current RK-9000 as well.

[NormaJean]

I sure am excited about receiving my new keyboard

[majestouch]

Rumors of EK's intent to defraud customers and use their money to pay for yet-to-be-ordered product are greatly exaggerated;)

There is capital in EK to buy keyboards and these boards were actually ordered last year.

The main reason for the pre-order now, for products not being shipped for a couple weeks, is in order to get an idea of the demand via solid commitments so that we can set our orders for the coming months ASAP. This way we can keep supply consistent while introducing product variations people actually want to buy. The only other way to do it is to ****foot it into the market (like we did at the very beginning) and buy 20 units one month, 50 the next, 100, and so forth. Thanks to all the customers that pre-ordered over the last two days, as well as customer suggestions, we can now plan ahead with confidence and prevent ourselves from slipping into long periods without stock or the products people demand.

Unfortunately, at this time we use the PayPal shopping cart which will charge you immediately, but you do have the option to send your order by e-mail or fax wherein we won't charge you until your order is ready to ship (don't send your CC by e-mail...only your phone so we can call you).

As for the delay...some of it was imposed by EK in order to make sure the product was going to be what we want for this market; also, some delays were caused by Chinese NY as well...which wasn't so much of a surprise to me as was the fact that from what I've been hearing, Chinese/Taiwanese businesses tend to treat it as a surprise themselves so that they can use it as an excuse to delay deadlines they're behind on. In any case, our factory inspection is next week and the boards will be prepared for shipping soon thereafter.

Thanks for your support!

[NormaJean]

^^^ Thank you, I personnaly wasn't scared at all and have complete trust in your company. One month isn't so long to be honest. I've easily waited over 4 months for stuff I've preordered before, it was from a company I trusted and I eventually received the item.

I had almost forgotten about it and it made it awesomer

[Armando Penblade]

One time I accidentally ordered a game 1 year in advance without realizing that they would charge right away (Elemental: War of Magic). It came out and was terrible, and all the while, the game developer was bragging about how his company had already broken even on preorders alone. That was last year and the game still sucks

That story has almost nothing to do with keyboards, however. Majestouch: I'll keep my eye on the site. If you guys put up a cheap, tenkeyless red, you're likely to pull a preorder out of me, despite my nasty experience, because you seem pretty rad

[duckyduck]

Rumors of EK's intent to defraud customers and use their money to pay for yet-to-be-ordered product are greatly exaggerated;)

There is capital in EK to buy keyboards and these boards were actually ordered last year.

The main reason for the pre-order now, for products not being shipped for a couple weeks, is in order to get an idea of the demand via solid commitments so that we can set our orders for the coming months ASAP. This way we can keep supply consistent while introducing product variations people actually want to buy. The only other way to do it is to ****foot it into the market (like we did at the very beginning) and buy 20 units one month, 50 the next, 100, and so forth. Thanks to all the customers that pre-ordered over the last two days, as well as customer suggestions, we can now plan ahead with confidence and prevent ourselves from slipping into long periods without stock or the products people demand.

Unfortunately, at this time we use the PayPal shopping cart which will charge you immediately, but you do have the option to send your order by e-mail or fax wherein we won't charge you until your order is ready to ship (don't send your CC by e-mail...only your phone so we can call you).

As for the delay...some of it was imposed by EK in order to make sure the product was going to be what we want for this market; also, some delays were caused by Chinese NY as well...which wasn't so much of a surprise to me as was the fact that from what I've been hearing, Chinese/Taiwanese businesses tend to treat it as a surprise themselves so that they can use it as an excuse to delay deadlines they're behind on. In any case, our factory inspection is next week and the boards will be prepared for shipping soon thereafter.

Thanks for your support!

Thanks for the clarification Majestouch, much appreciated. If would be great if you could include the information about paying up front due to Paypal and the option to order by phone/email to avoid this on the FAQ or on preorder pages.

EK is a well respected distributor and I don't think anyone had doubts about receiving their keyboard, but I hope you can understand where some of your customers are coming from. It's disconcerting having your CC charged and paying the monthly bill before even receiving the product.

[noodles256]

Meanwhile at the Leopold Factory.

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whenever I am down in the dumps, ripster saves the day

[obj-c]

are the leopold tenkeyless boards better to get than the filco tenkeyless ones? If i do get one next month should i get cherry browns or blues? My first mech board, a 1988 ibm model is coming in tomm

[Chobopants]

are the leopold tenkeyless boards better to get than the filco tenkeyless ones? If i do get one next month should i get cherry browns or blues? My first mech board, a 1988 ibm model is coming in tomm

If the specs mean anything they should be close to identical in terms of overall feel/quality. Brown/blue is all preference and depends on what you need it for. I opted for both: brown for gaming/general use, blue for work hardcore coding.