Sounds of Blacks, Browns

[Armando Penblade]

All things being equal (bottoming out 50-75% of the time, esp. with the spacebar), do you happen to believe there's a significant difference between Blacks and Browns?

I'm looking for the quietest, easily acquirable mechanical without Topres (far, *far* out of my price range) on the market today.

Some people claim that PCB-mounted vs. plate-mounted makes a massive difference, while others would say that keycap material is the great decider. Some would just tell me to put a towel over my hands and be done with it

I ask because I'd be using such a keyboard at work in the cube directly beside the manager's and I absolutely don't want to bother him, but the rubber dome Dells we get there are driving me absolutely batty! I'm horrified of browns, because even though they lack the tactile click my Blues have, I know that bottoming out my spacebar is an incredibly loud, thunky sound, and that just won't do.

Specific board recommendations are welcome if you happen to have a particular model that you know is much quieter than another, so if it comes to that, I generally am looking for "simple" black keyboards (the shiny Das or metallic blue Filco would be too flashy and dangerous).

But mostly I'm just curious to see what people think of the sound of blacks vs. browns, and if any other extenuating factors would make enough of a difference for me to safely buy this as a work keyboard

If it helps, I'm sitting about 6 feet from him with 4-foot high wall between us; it is thin, but does have cloth material on both sides that might absorb *some* sound, but not much, in the end.

[Orphagn]

I just recently went back to my board with Blacks after using Reds, and i'm liking Blacks a lot better. I type kind of heavy so I bottomed out with Reds almost all the time, so I decided to try my 11900 again, and i'm glad I did.
Now I can type without hardly ever bottoming out, and the sound is a lot quieter since Blacks are pretty quiet and due to not bottoming out, there's no "clack".
BTW the 11900 is PCB mounted if it makes a difference.

[bill gates iii]

I find this thread highly racist.

[Tony]

For not disturbing the manager, use a laptop scissor keyboard. I use brown Filco at work and its noise is definitely higher than all rubber dome keyboards around me.

If it is still a problem, consider change the department or company you work with.

[Surly73]

I have some old boards with blacks which I believe are PCB mounted and have doubleshots (Wyse terminal and Amiga 2000).  I also have a nearly new Filco with browns.

The sound level is about the same but the characteristic is totally different.  I think the difference is the plate and the keycaps.  There's a bit more resonance or echo from the bottoming with the Filco.  Even if you're slowly cursoring through a text file, for example, the Filco is makes more noise of a different character whereas the PCB-mounted blacks w/ doubleshots make almost no noise in that situation.

[BucklingSpring]

Deck - Black
XArmor - Brown

Without looking at the Specs (seat of the pants impressions)
Black are linear, feels a bit heavier, have longer travel and louder
Brown are tactile, lighter

I had top of the hand and arms pain with the Black after typing for a while. Never had that with any other switches including the brown. Black are great for gaming though.

[pcunite]

Perhaps under each key you could place a small amount of dampening material.

[Kacee]

All things being equal (bottoming out 50-75% of the time, esp. with the spacebar), do you happen to believe there's a significant difference between Blacks and Browns?

You bring an unrealistic situation to this discussion, I don't think there's anyone who bottoms out the same with both browns and blacks. If they bottom out with blacks, then they will bottom out hard with browns, on the other hand, if they don't bottom out with browns at all, maybe they will miss some key with blacks (although this isn't likely, because browns and blacks actuation force is about the same, 55cN vs 60cN IIRC)

I find typing on blacks give me the highest wpm, higher force required to bottom out prevent me to bottom out all the time and linear "push back" effect helps me glide my fingers through keys. This make the blacks quieter, although very much.

However, your "unrealistic situation" does happens sometimes to me, although not very often, or should I say happens in a very short time, that's when my fingers hit the key with enough force to bottom out with any switch, but only travel to somewhere (including the bottom) and go back up, I still found the blacks quieter.

I have all Filco Tenkeyless boards in all brown, blue, red and black switches so I speak from my own experience, hopefully with will be useful for you.

I settled with browns and reds, sold everything else. I don't really want to type too fast and blacks make me type as fast as I can, not sure why. And blues, they are noisy, although sometimes I found it's pretty sastifying listening to the "click-click-click-click" burst without bottoming out.

[Findecanor]

You can use orthodontic rubber bands to dampen the sound of bottoming out, but it also dampens the feel a little bit. See my sig for link.

I don't bottom out that much on either boards with brown or black switches, but the springs in my blacks are noisy.

[RiGS]

Perhaps under each key you could place a small amount of dampening material.

That's not necessary. It is very easy to touch type on mx blacks.
I never buttom out on them.

[Lanx]

i've been examining the browns a bit, and i don't think it produces sounds from bottoming out, since i don't bottom out, but rather the springy rattle when the key gets returned, or the stem rather.
my cherry ml's are quietier than cherry browns if you need some reference.

[Kacee]

yeah, I forgot to mention that most of the noise generated when I type on browns are from the upstrokes, when the stems (or the whole moving assembly) hit the top casing of the switches, the keycaps are echoing them so it's even noisier. But no, it's not as noisy as blues...

[pcunite]

... most of the noise generated when I type on browns are from the upstrokes, when the stems (or the whole moving assembly) hit the top casing of the switches, the keycaps are echoing them so it's even noisier

Ahhh, that is clear to me. Hmm.

[RiGS]

I just recently went back to my board with Blacks after using Reds, and i'm liking Blacks a lot better. I type kind of heavy so I bottomed out with Reds almost all the time, so I decided to try my 11900 again, and i'm glad I did.
Now I can type without hardly ever bottoming out, and the sound is a lot quieter since Blacks are pretty quiet and due to not bottoming out, there's no "clack".
BTW the 11900 is PCB mounted if it makes a difference.

    After using the topre I appreciate my mx BLACKS even more.
They are just so damn good for both typing and gaming, and the sound of the board is also awesome.

    However I'm glad I bought my Realforce. It saved me a lot of money in the long run, because I do not want to buy expensive PBT keycaps anymore.

    It is very hard to not buttom out on the topre while gaming, and double tapping is also very challenging, but after a week of practice, I'm definitely able to double tap on them as quickly as on my mx blacks.
    Also as a result of this practice, I'm so much more precise with the stiffer mx black switches then before.

[DanGWanG]

I've tried bringing every single one of my keyboards, day by day to test the level of noise, except my Blues.  Since Topre's are totally out of your price range, I would say the next best bet is Cherry Reds.  (Topre's win in terms of quietness by large)

The Cherry Reds are definitely quieter than the Browns, in my opinion.  I would imagine the Blacks to have a similar noise db.  Though, depending on how comfortable you are with typing on heavier switches, blacks may be a little more ideal for you.

[sparayurji]

in my opinion the less noisy (but rather say lower pitched) bottoming out of the reds, at least speaking of the filco implementation, vs the browns, is due mainly to the new pcb design, that is well described in the diatec website. the switches are more in contact to the pcb, instead just to the plate, and so more energy is passed trough and dissipated.

[Armando Penblade]

I don't suppose anyone knows of any PCB-mounted Blacks?

I have read a lot of the advice here about typing fatigue and bottoming out and whatnot, but I must say that what stops me from bottoming out my blues is more the required force (muscle memory) rather than feeling the tactile bump (sensation), given how quickly I'm generally moving, so I have to imagine that the even lighter bump of the Browns would pass right by me.

While reds are likely even quieter due to PCB design, at work, I am often distracted by my duties (usually on the phone while working with software and maybe also talking to someone by my desk with a question), so I am very afraid of not having the attentiveness to avoid bottoming out when muscle memory fails me.

Thus, even if blacks can be fatiguing, they provide a good chance of not bottoming out. But I am unsure which fullsize keyboards avoid the steel mounting plate. Looks like SteelSeries uses it, as well as Filco. Cherry may not, but their model numbers are confusing as all hell, and many of their models use trackballs or doubled F-row keys, which would make the keyboard "stand out" at work (a bad thing).

So, if you happen to know of a good line of PCB-mounted fullsize boards (Blacks, but Reds and Browns if that's all they got, too) that don't have anything too "funky" about the visual appearance, that would be helpful. I just can't recall anything much like that in my reading experience, though I am going back through the shopping wiki and keyswitch wiki more carefully now to see if they mention it in detail (don't seem to so far).

Most of all, thank you guys for the assistance and awesome advice! I appreciate especially your concern for my poor fingers tiring from the blacks, but honestly, if you felt the rubber domes we have at work, you'd know that actuation force is one of my smallest concerns right now, lol!

[lzf929]

For the black switches, my 6gv2 seems quiter than TG3 BL82, probably due to the difference in key caps.

[RiGS]

If the shorter right shift don't bother you, then the Steelseries is a good choice.
You will not buttom out on that board. I can guarantee that for you, so you will not hear the sound of that.
It is plate mounted as well, but it is quiter then the Filco.

[Orphagn]

If you don't mind shorter Ctrl, Win, and Alt buttons, the Cherry G80-11900 (MX Black, PCB-mounted) isn't TOO funky.
The Function cluster will take a little getting used to but that's about the only problem I had with it and it's not as long as a fullsize Cherry board. Plus, you can find them on Ebay for $50 or less.

Edit: This is the cheapest one I found with Blacks.

[canon.tk]

Once you go black you'll never go back...  since I started out with blacks trying not to bottom out with my blues and browns takes a bit of practice but I can do it.  Then typing on the blues all day at work and going to blacks at home keeps me from bottoming them out pretty easily.

I have a Filco 104 with reds on the way, should be here tomorrow.  So we'll see how that goes.

[sparayurji]

If you don't mind shorter Ctrl, Win, and Alt buttons, the Cherry G80-11900 (MX Black, PCB-mounted) isn't TOO funky.
The Function cluster will take a little getting used to but that's about the only problem I had with it and it's not as long as a fullsize Cherry board. Plus, you can find them on Ebay for $50 or less.

Edit: This is the cheapest one I found with Blacks.

i second this, definitely a quieter bottoming out noise (lower pitched, even here). my raptor-gaming k1, basically a g80-1800, with blacks has also a strange configuration, or at least i'm unaware if it is or not.
technically the switches are plate mounted, but instead of a single plate, every one has his own spacer, that if you don't pay attention you don't even see. so you have the solidity of a plate mount but with the lower pitched noise, and if i must add, the 'softer landing' of the thumbs, of a pcb mount.

[BucklingSpring]

I don't suppose anyone knows of any PCB-mounted Blacks?

Deck 82 is PCB-Mouted

"(...) For the Deck 82 the switches are mounted on the PCB, for the Deck Legend they are mounted on a metal chassis.

The switches themselves do not have a diode in them. The diode is located on the PCB near the switch. These are used for n-key rollover. Currently we use Cherry keyswitch MX1A-11NW.
_________________
Deck Guy Adam"

He is the site admin on Deck's forum.

[Kacee]

So, if you happen to know of a good line of PCB-mounted fullsize boards (Blacks, but Reds and Browns if that's all they got, too) that don't have anything too "funky" about the visual appearance, that would be helpful. I just can't recall anything much like that in my reading experience, though I am going back through the shopping wiki and keyswitch wiki more carefully now to see if they mention it in detail (don't seem to so far).

This

I have one, modded to ghetto red, fell in love, and I'm going to cut off the numpad...