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Author Topic: Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)  (Read 22806 times)

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Offline noodles256

  • Posts: 1980
  • le legendary
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 18:05:01 »
Quote from: 7bit;318565
You just need double-shot key caps!

Double-shots improve your typing speed up 50%!!!

Order key caps here:

Double shot replacements ROUND THREE


oh 7bit,=.... =]
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Offline nocturn4l3030

  • Posts: 264
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 20:01:55 »
i was in the EXACT same position you were in... after all this lurking on GH i decided to go with browns and i my anticipation was off the roof.. but when I got the thing i found myself typing slower too

i found it's because coming straight from a rubber dome.. i was so used to putting so much pressure onto the keys or something and probably didn't give it enough time for the much softer brown switches..

so I bit the bullet and went with a topre 55g which i found was too stiff for me and hurt my fingers after a while

then i got a topre variable force and till this day it's my daily driver... i love it for gaming and typing (i type 105ish wpm)

i do love the blues too.. blues are my "work board" and the topre for all around great usage


i do wish i could try the browns again now that my fingers are probably used to the lighter switches of the topre / blues now
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What happens when you discover GeekHack:
[strike]Black Ducky dk1087 Cherry (Brown)
Topre Realforce 103UB 55g
Topre Realforce 103UB
Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 (Clear)
White PLU ML-87 (Blue)
1990 IBM Model M 1391401
Cherry G80-3000LSCEU-0 (Blue)
[/strike]

Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-2 (Red)
Topre Realforce 86UB
Filco Tenkeyless (Brown)

[/SIZE]

Offline manfaux

  • Posts: 584
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 20:05:57 »
never liked browns, the clears are much better!
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Offline dr/owned

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  • Posts: 43
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #53 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 20:48:23 »
Quote from: 7bit;318565
You just need double-shot key caps!

Double-shots improve your typing speed up 50%!!!

Order key caps here:

Double shot replacements ROUND THREE


Mmm any chance out of the goodness of your heart you could throw 2 of them in an envelope and donate 'em to me for a test drive?
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Offline dr/owned

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Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 20:51:21 »
Quote from: nocturn4l3030;318642

so I bit the bullet and went with a topre 55g which i found was too stiff for me and hurt my fingers after a while

then i got a topre variable force and till this day it's my daily driver... i love it for gaming and typing (i type 105ish wpm)


One of the things I'm looking for is an actual map of which keys have which weight.  Some thread said they're all 45g except for space and esc (something to that effect), but reading elsewhere it seems like there's zones on the alpha keys with diff weights.  I'd rather have all 1 weight since I game and don't always use home-row etiquette.
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Offline dr/owned

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Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 21:16:45 »
Quote from: ripster;318679
See the "All About Topre Wiki".


Thanks!  That and http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html should be put in a pamphlet and air dropped over cities :D
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Offline asfogh

  • Posts: 32
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 21:55:53 »
i have no problem typing quickly with cherry browns.. however, if i'm not bottoming out everytime, i'm certainly bottoming out a lot of the time. and learning to "float" for playing starcraft isn't really an option. would a scissor switch board maybe be a better option? what's a good model? can i find a tenkeyless?

edit: nevermind, just realized these are the new apple style keyboards. can't play starcraft on that, no siree. are cherry browns the best for me then or is there another type I should be looking at?
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 March 2011, 21:59:41 by asfogh »
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Offline dr/owned

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Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 22:26:26 »
Quote from: asfogh;318727
i have no problem typing quickly with cherry browns.. however, if i'm not bottoming out everytime, i'm certainly bottoming out a lot of the time. and learning to "float" for playing starcraft isn't really an option. would a scissor switch board maybe be a better option? what's a good model? can i find a tenkeyless?

edit: nevermind, just realized these are the new apple style keyboards. can't play starcraft on that, no siree. are cherry browns the best for me then or is there another type I should be looking at?


I know iogear makes a lot of scissor boards.  I banged on one for a few minutes a couple years ago and thought it felt really good.  Not as shallow as a laptop key but not as deep as a rubber dome.  The Logitech diNovo is also scissor but it got pretty poor reviews.
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Offline NimbleRabit

  • Posts: 137
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 25 March 2011, 23:16:02 »
Quote from: asfogh;318727
i have no problem typing quickly with cherry browns.. however, if i'm not bottoming out everytime, i'm certainly bottoming out a lot of the time. and learning to "float" for playing starcraft isn't really an option. would a scissor switch board maybe be a better option? what's a good model? can i find a tenkeyless?

edit: nevermind, just realized these are the new apple style keyboards. can't play starcraft on that, no siree. are cherry browns the best for me then or is there another type I should be looking at?

There's nothing wrong with bottoming out when typing as long as it's relatively light (there's a difference between just tapping the bottom and pounding it).  As far as gaming goes, don't worry about it.  I love to game on my browns and I obviously pound the keys pretty hard when playing games, but in that case I still enjoy the keyboard a lot.

Of course it's all about preference and finding what you like.
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Offline Engine

  • Posts: 250
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #59 on: Sat, 26 March 2011, 00:58:38 »
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 March 2011, 01:06:06 by Engine »
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In order of purchase:
Unicomp Space Saver(Black) - Topre Realforce 103U-UW -   Topre Realforce 103UB - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Blue - Leopold Tenkeyless MX Brown - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Blue - Filco Majestouch 2 MX Brown

Offline asfogh

  • Posts: 32
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #60 on: Sat, 26 March 2011, 10:03:58 »
paying attention i actually dont think i bottom out all the time when typing on browns.. maybe 80% and it's pretty light.

playing starcraft though is another story. i'm wondering if maybe i should take a look at getting maybe a unicomp quiet touch or keytronic or realforce board instead. i'm not particularly against the brown that i have, i've used it for like a year by now, and i was using cherry blues or scissor switches for a while before that (as quiet as possible since i share my office with another person).

engine: do you have a unicomp quiet touch? how loud is it?

edit: i'm starting to think the dental band mod might suit me just well... will look into finding the bands and will report back with how it turns out for sound, bottoming out & starcraft
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 March 2011, 10:34:01 by asfogh »
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Offline earloflondon

  • Posts: 14
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #61 on: Sun, 27 March 2011, 18:27:21 »
Rather than looking for a mechanical, as said earlier, you can go for a high quality scissor switch desktop board, which is of course the TypeMatrix 2030. You can find a Dvorak version. It's also an ergonomic choice as the keys are aligned not angled like they are in Kinesis Contours or Maltrons. They are cheap too...


http://www.typematrix.com/dvorak/

http://www.ergocanada.com/detailed_specification_pages/typematrix_typematrix_usb_ez_reach_keyboard_2009_version.html



Quote from: dr/owned;317486
First Post! (after months of lurking)

So, I've had a Majestouch with the Cherry Brown switches for the past year or so.  Previously I'd only used Logitech rubber boards and previous to that ye-olde Dell Quietkeys.  I was expecting the heavens to part and angels to sing given the price tag on this board, but I have to say i don't think I really like it very much.  I'm looking for some feedback on my thoughts and some potential alternatives:

I type in Dvorak and with a rubber board I can maintain 100+ wpm.  With the Majestouch I feel like I have to think a lot more about each stroke and my speed has gone down to about 90-95 wpm.

Why am I thinking more?  Well, I think the keys are a bit too narrow, even for my slender fingers.  If I'm not bang on center then I feel the edge of the key and that throws me off.  The biggest issue  I think though is the keys feel chattery, so I'm always thinking "did that key actually go down".  Best way I can describe it is it feels like there's too much shock transferred through the keys when they hit bottom, and the keys almost feel paper thin.

I really do like the feel of the rubber domes.  Nice sized keys, smooth response, good feedback.  What I don't like though, and the reason why I went mechanical in the first place, is that rubber domes change their consistency on a daily basis.  Brand new rubber domes are awesome...3 years out it's like finger wrestling.

Would Topre be the way to go?  Any specific brands/models (I don't need function keys or USB ports but I do prefer black and with a numpad...oh and relatively compact footprint ie no 3 inch plastic borders)?  Budget would probably max out at $300, and I wouldn't mind ordering international to expand selection availability.
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Boards that I have
    1. Kinesis Advantage Pro x 2 (1 to go)
    2. Topre ReAlforce 86U
    3. SIIG Minitouch (Not the GeekHack one sigh!)

Boards I wish to have
    1. Filco FKB 89 J
    2. Topre MD01B0
        Both owned by  rdjack21  :)). I envy him :))

Offline dr/owned

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Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 28 March 2011, 15:07:59 »
Quote from: earloflondon;319766
Rather than looking for a mechanical, as said earlier, you can go for a high quality scissor switch desktop board, which is of course the TypeMatrix 2030. You can find a Dvorak version. It's also an ergonomic choice as the keys are aligned not angled like they are in Kinesis Contours or Maltrons. They are cheap too...


http://www.typematrix.com/dvorak/

http://www.ergocanada.com/detailed_specification_pages/typematrix_typematrix_usb_ez_reach_keyboard_2009_version.html


I'd be interested in high quality scissor brands, but I don't believe in anything but the standard layout.  Wavy upside down sideways curved rearranged keyboards have no appeal to me since I get no fatigue with the normal layout.
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Offline speakeasy

  • Posts: 181
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 28 March 2011, 15:31:46 »
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Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 424
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 28 March 2011, 22:09:44 »
blacks... period...
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Offline earloflondon

  • Posts: 14
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 29 March 2011, 16:03:01 »
Quote from: ripster;319768
I was with you there until you got to the Typematrix part.

Do you use one?


Not quite. All that I've written is based on mere imagination. I didn't use one but listened to some people's advice who are happily using the product, and have read lots of reviews in favour of it and etc. Besides, my using it doesn't justify my recommendation, but I just took the courage to make it. Combining my 28 years of experience in computing and having to type on all (almost) sorts of different boards (including switches with buckling springs, cherries, alps, plain and quality rubber domes, membranes and scissors, except topres and red cherries) and searching through maybe hundreds or thousands of pages on ergonomics for my carpal tunnel pains, I thought

1. TypeMatrix's scissor switches wouldn't at least be worse than any standard notebook's scissors

2. As I'm using a Kinesis Advantage Pro and happy with it, a vertical ergonomic layout rather than an angled one would be better

3. Not everyone has  to be satisfied with a mechanical switch, and maybe it may be worse for those who are not accustomed with them. Sometimes some switches like cherry blacks may turn out to be stiffer than rubber and more tiring

4. As Qwerty is also known to be purposefully designed for slowing down the typists a hundred or so years ago and not accepted as an ergonomically good design a board that is natively Dvorak by design (in fact it is Colemak too with fn+f5) should do what he wanted.

Anyway, so much I said, he doesn't even care about the ergonomics, a decision that should be respected.

If anything about the TypeMatrix we don't know but you do please share it with us.

Cheers

Quote from: dr/owned
I'd be interested in high quality scissor brands, but I don't believe in anything but the standard layout. Wavy upside down sideways curved rearranged keyboards have no appeal to me since I get no fatigue with the normal layout.

As a note, I'll be getting my Topre Realforce 86U in a a week or two... I hope I'll have a better experience coding with it than with my beloved Kinesis.
« Last Edit: Wed, 30 March 2011, 06:55:17 by earloflondon »
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Boards that I have
    1. Kinesis Advantage Pro x 2 (1 to go)
    2. Topre ReAlforce 86U
    3. SIIG Minitouch (Not the GeekHack one sigh!)

Boards I wish to have
    1. Filco FKB 89 J
    2. Topre MD01B0
        Both owned by  rdjack21  :)). I envy him :))

Offline dr/owned

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 43
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 30 March 2011, 14:58:57 »
Sit Rep:  Ordered some 3/16" Orthodontic Bands - Medium off ebay.  I think I'll appreciate the shortened stroke length and cushier landing but it might just feel too mushy.  I'm also eying up some Doubleshot donor boards....

If none of this works then I'll maybe bite the bullet and give Topre a shot.  At least I can resell it for 90% of cost if it's not for me, right?
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Offline strum4h

  • Posts: 146
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 01 April 2011, 07:05:58 »
I had that problem when I first started using my new board. Before that I had to use my laptop keyboard which is a crappy scissor. Once you get used to it it is glorious.
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Offline dr/owned

  • Thread Starter
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Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 07 April 2011, 16:46:25 »
After giving the bands a shot, I don't think it improved the experience much at all.  I still feel like the keys are paper thin (ie sort of resonate a bit when pressed), and the bands seemed to only make the tactile bump feel more intense.  Cherry donor board for double shot keys is next...
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Offline neverdayz

  • Posts: 11
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 07 April 2011, 21:14:13 »
Quote from: earloflondon;319766
Rather than looking for a mechanical, as said earlier, you can go for a high quality scissor switch desktop board, which is of course the TypeMatrix 2030. You can find a Dvorak version. It's also an ergonomic choice as the keys are aligned not angled like they are in Kinesis Contours or Maltrons. They are cheap too...


http://www.typematrix.com/dvorak/

http://www.ergocanada.com/detailed_specification_pages/typematrix_typematrix_usb_ez_reach_keyboard_2009_version.html


That layout looks really bad for gaming.
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Offline aegrotatio

  • Posts: 334
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 08 April 2011, 00:28:45 »
I don't think typing slower is a big deal, but the real questions are: are you typing more accurately?  Are you typing more effectively?  Are you typing more ergonomically as to avoid typing injuries?  Are you simply enjoying it more?

I got this BlackWidow mechanical with Cherry Blues and it satisfies all those criteria for me.  The glowing blue logo thing makes me smile, too.  Oh, and if I were to time my typing, I'm pretty sure I type 10% faster but 5% less accurate on my free-after-rebate Memorex 1100 rubber dome keyboards.
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Daily Drivers: Ducky DK1087XM || DSI ASK-6600 || Rosewill RK-9000 BL, BR, BL, and RE || ABS M1 || Das Keyboard Silent || HHKB Lite and Lite 2 || DSI Big Font (kids love it)
Yearning for: Any ALPS keyboard || Any tenkeyless mechanical keyboard
Permanent collection: Poker Blue and Brown || Adesso MKB-125B || SIIG MiniTouch Geek Hack Space Saver || Chicony 5181 Monterey Blue || Chicony 5191 Clone Cherry Blues || Key Tronic 3600 || Unicomp Endurapro & SmarTrex || A crate of IBM Model M and Model M Space Saving boards || NeXTstation Slab || Amiga 3000 || BTC-5100C black and beige || SIIG MiniTouch Plus black and beige
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Offline BlacK.OuT

  • Posts: 19
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #71 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 00:26:05 »
Took a typing test, once on a pair of rubber domes, once with my leopold tenkeyless brown. Scored a  74 wpm with the rubber domes, 91 with the Leopold...I think its cause my rubber domes require a lot of force for some reason, but i also made way fewer mistakes with the leopold.
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Offline aegrotatio

  • Posts: 334
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 09 April 2011, 21:57:18 »
I see what you mean.  It all depends on the person.
When I was taking typing tests the errors and backspaces deducted from your score.  Sure you could type 150 WPM but the error rate would slam it down under 100.  I scored 125 WPM on a Tom Thumb manual typewriter and 135 WPM on an electric (you know, the ones that don't keep up with your typing and freak you out).  QWERTY really was designed to keep the hammers from jamming.
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Daily Drivers: Ducky DK1087XM || DSI ASK-6600 || Rosewill RK-9000 BL, BR, BL, and RE || ABS M1 || Das Keyboard Silent || HHKB Lite and Lite 2 || DSI Big Font (kids love it)
Yearning for: Any ALPS keyboard || Any tenkeyless mechanical keyboard
Permanent collection: Poker Blue and Brown || Adesso MKB-125B || SIIG MiniTouch Geek Hack Space Saver || Chicony 5181 Monterey Blue || Chicony 5191 Clone Cherry Blues || Key Tronic 3600 || Unicomp Endurapro & SmarTrex || A crate of IBM Model M and Model M Space Saving boards || NeXTstation Slab || Amiga 3000 || BTC-5100C black and beige || SIIG MiniTouch Plus black and beige
Retired collection: SIIG MiniTouch Monterey Blue || Razer BlackWidow

Offline dr/owned

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  • Posts: 43
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 17 June 2011, 18:58:01 »
So some thread bumping here, but since I'm the OP; whatev.

Tried a bunch of boards at Fry's.

The blacks I just hated.  The keys were stiff as hell and it felt like my fingers were "slipping" without the tactile bump.  You know...the feeling like when you step on a spot of ice and your foot goes out from under you.  Because the keys were so stiff the stroke actually felt shorter than my browns.  So by association I think Reds are out as well.

The blues I also disliked.  Not only is it loud clicky, but the tactile bump feels so sharp compared to the browns that I could swear the key was hitting me back.  It's not horrible to type on and I'd probably get used to it with time, but it wasn't mind blowing.

Tried a few laptop scissor boards.  Most were meh because of the super short keystroke...some even shorter than my laptop.  Some were ok feeling but the keys were compacted which makes typing quickly difficult.  There were a few strange rubber domes with really thin and narrow domes that I quite enjoyed typing on.

Overall I think I like the overall feel of the rubberdomes still, but would like to get rid of some of the mushiness.  So Topre looks like the way to go.  Now I'm worried that the 55g weighting will feel too much like the blacks.
« Last Edit: Fri, 17 June 2011, 19:01:40 by dr/owned »
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Offline The Solutor

  • Posts: 2262
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 18 June 2011, 02:44:40 »
Quote from: dr/owned;362627

Overall I think I like the overall feel of the rubberdomes still, but would like to get rid of some of the mushiness.  So Topre looks like the way to go.  Now I'm worried that the 55g weighting will feel too much like the blacks.

 

Looks like you are the perfect candidate for a cherry clear board.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

  • Posts: 1107
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #75 on: Sat, 18 June 2011, 03:58:31 »
Yep. Still that cheap board with those running I bet.

Either that or going BS.

Either that or the right touch NMB keyboards off of ebay that are rubber domes, or a few other decent ones. I haven't tried any of these personally, because I like all the mechs I have great.
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Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2248
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #76 on: Sun, 19 June 2011, 01:42:56 »
You may want to give your browns one last chance by installing o-rings. They reduce the bottom-out harshness and noise, and give you a nice bounce that helps fast typing (unlike the mushy dental bands or soft-landing pads). I'm using o-rings on my Kinesis with MX reds, and I also used them on my older board with MX browns.

Best o-rings to get are medium-soft 50A durometer, 008 size. Part number 2418T114 at McMaster-Carr, $9 per pack of 125
http://www.mcmaster.com/#as568a-o-rings/

Make sure you push them all the way into each keycap.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 June 2011, 02:15:39 by sordna »
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Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Wallach

  • Posts: 99
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 19 June 2011, 01:48:49 »
One other thing you might consider is a different set of keycaps with a lower profile that will fit Cherry switches. Maybe the Filco keycaps are just too tall (combined with the fairly deep travel of a brown switch) compared to your rubber domes.
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Offline Surly73

  • Posts: 425
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #78 on: Sun, 19 June 2011, 08:14:04 »
Quote from: Wallach;363215
One other thing you might consider is a different set of keycaps with a lower profile that will fit Cherry switches. Maybe the Filco keycaps are just too tall (combined with the fairly deep travel of a brown switch) compared to your rubber domes.

For me, I think it's the deep switch travel and high profile caps that actually speed me up on my Filco w/ browns as compared to a Realforce.  At least it feels that way.  When I think of my "overall mental impression" of the two boards and why I feel smoother and faster on browns than 55g Topres it's the ability to smoothly roll between the deep, large caps on the Filco which really seems to make a difference.  On the Topre I feel like I am striking one key and then the next.  On the Filco I feel like I am flowing from key to key, pressing the next before I've released the previous.

Just an observation....
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Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #79 on: Sun, 19 June 2011, 10:29:17 »
That's what we call "booby feeling". Your fingers are literally flying over the keyboard. Make typing a sensual experience.
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Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline fullofenergy

  • Posts: 36
Typing slower with Cherry Brown than Rubber Dome (is it just me?)
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 20 June 2011, 23:09:16 »
My max wpm with rubber dome/scissor was around 120wpm, average 110. Now I average 120wpm with brown and have hit 150wpm max on typeracer website
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