Author Topic: "Fixing" the Leopold stabilizers (Read 27922 times)

Chobopants · « **on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 16:07:13 »

Does anyone know if there's a way to make the stabilizers in this thing feel more like my Filco's? Not only are they squeaky, but also mushy. It wasn't bothering me too much until today when a fellow coworker got his Filco Brown Tenkeyless (inspired by my Leo) and, side by side, it just feels sooooo much better (the Filco).

If this isn't something that is easy to fix or at least tweak, I'm strongly considering grabbing a Linear R and selling this guy (ok probably still keeping it but that's what I'll tell the girlfriend). It's not HORRIBLE but it is clearly not as crisp as the Filco.

Thanks.

Chobopants · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 16:32:23 »

Damn ok, thanks. Maybe they'll wear in a bit. Also hoping that after I toss the doubleshots on there maybe some of the squeaking will go away.

The difference between the single switch keys and the keys with stabilizers really is jarring. It's just "crisp crisp crisp crisp MUSH MUSH crisp" and my speed drops dramatically whenever I have to use shift, enter, or backspace.

drsauced · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 16:48:33 »

I've noticed this too on the Leopold, but it is actually better than the Deck Legend I have, so take comfort in knowing that the Leo is better than the average Cherry.

Chobopants · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 16:53:30 »

Ouch. Yeah the worst part is that I'm a right shift user and that one is WAY worse than the left shift. Who knows, maybe because I'm using right shift so much more that's why it's worse. Blech.

Chobopants · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 17:21:36 »

Quote from: kalrykh;326342

I used lithium grease on mine to stop the squeaking. Sounds and feels fine now.

Oh good advice! Just bought it on Amazon. My right wrist actually hurts from how squishy the right shift key is now. It's bad.

RiGS · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 17:26:03 »

Quote from: kalrykh;326342

I used lithium grease on mine to stop the squeaking. Sounds and feels fine now.

What part of the stablizer have you lubed?

nvarsj · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 17:36:12 »

Quote from: Chobopants;326327

Ouch. Yeah the worst part is that I'm a right shift user and that one is WAY worse than the left shift. Who knows, maybe because I'm using right shift so much more that's why it's worse. Blech.

I rarely use right shift (so didn't notice this at first), but it is noticeably mushier than the rest of the keys. Spacebar feels fine. But right shift is bad. I guess they didn't properly lube everything.

Chobopants · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 18:11:08 »

Very happy to hear that it's hopefully just a lube problem. I really like the overall feel of the board minus these squishy keys. Hoping that it feels 95% as good as a Filco once I toss my otaku doubleshots on here (whenever that round 3 happens) and lube those keys instead of 80% like now.

NeverDie · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 18:24:03 »

I hope I don't get the problem as well, but it's nice to know that I can fix it at least if I run into it.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 18:34:17 »

Quote from: kalrykh;326381

20 minutes later it started squeaking again, so I put an assload more in It doesnt squeak anymore haha.

I HATE squeaky assloads!

Chobopants · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 19:02:37 »

Quote from: kalrykh;326399

im sorry. did you say otaku doubleshots? why would you have doubleshot blank keys.

Haha, I just mean the PBT group buy keys.

Lpb45 · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 20:01:13 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;326396

I HATE squeaky assloads!

I think your a liar

keyboardlover · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 07 April 2011, 21:09:58 »

Quote from: Lpb45;326425

I think your a liar

You are correct

Chobopants · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 08 April 2011, 01:24:21 »

Yeah, wrist started hurting BAD by the end of the day. Just tossed my Filco into my bag to bring to work until I can resolve this issue.

Might bring in some nickels too to RipO it out of curiosity.

Quest- · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 08 April 2011, 01:31:55 »

bytemeavaj · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 08 April 2011, 05:35:00 »

Quote from: Quest-;326590

Show Image

What the hell is a backsace?

Quest- · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 08 April 2011, 06:02:09 »

Me trying not to bottom out, and overdoing it.

Tool.

MrSneis · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 09 April 2011, 16:24:01 »

Rats. My backspace key started getting squeaky... and how.

Removing the "back space" key reveals one brown switch and two black nubs on either side, seems the metal stabilizer bar is under these nubs. I ended up dabbing a big glob on white lithium grease ($2.99 at autozone) on the end of a needle and applying to the exposed metal parts, seems to have helped greatly.

BababooeyHTJ · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 09 April 2011, 18:33:00 »

Is this a common problem on the cherry style stabilizers? I don't remember this being an issue on my Ducky but maybe I just got lucky.

BababooeyHTJ · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 08:57:35 »

On the 9008? Care to point those out? Other than the crappy legs. I prefer a smaller keyboard so I went with a filco.

Engine · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 13:42:01 »

Quote from: Chobopants;326292

Does anyone know if there's a way to make the stabilizers in this thing feel more like my Filco's? Not only are they squeaky, but also mushy. It wasn't bothering me too much until today when a fellow coworker got his Filco Brown Tenkeyless (inspired by my Leo) and, side by side, it just feels sooooo much better (the Filco).

If this isn't something that is easy to fix or at least tweak, I'm strongly considering grabbing a Linear R and selling this guy (ok probably still keeping it but that's what I'll tell the girlfriend). It's not HORRIBLE but it is clearly not as crisp as the Filco.
Thanks.

That was the only disspointment for me on the Leos.
I have that problem too with the "non-lettered" keys, like Shift/Ctrl/Back Space/Enter/ etc, being "mushy". I could'nt think of a better way to describe them except for that they feel like a whole other set of keys on the board. The "letter" keys are crisp/clean actuation, while the "other" keys mentioned, just kind of mush down w/no apparent actuation point but instead some resistance that feels a bit grainy/mushy. Is this a flaw or is this what the Leos are all about?
I want to note that I have both Browns and Blues Leos and the "secondary" keys, like Ctrl/Back Space/Enter,etc have the same weird feel, regardless of the switch type.

Chobopants · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 15:30:03 »

So...I got impatient. I was stupid and bought Lithium Grease last week off of Amazon but trying to play Starcraft last night on my Realforce bothered me so much (nearly invisible key legends are bad for playing Starcraft at night) I walked to work, grabbed my Leo, then stopped at a hardware store and bought some Lithium Grease there (and for less than I paid at Amazon, going to see if I can return it).

First, some pictures, everyone loves pictures:

I removed the keys, following the advice on Ripster's key pulling guide.

Using a toothpick I dabbed some of the grease in there as best I could.

After not being satisfied with the results, I took the key back off and SMOTHERED the entire stabilizer in grease.

All back together again. That's my red Filco key from EK, how's that for color accuracy. o_O

Anyway, results:

The squeaking is gone. Yay!
The mushiness, however, is not. Not at all. Boo.

I'm sad to say that, even with copious amounts of Lithium Grease ALL over the stabilizers, the backspace and right shift keys are still painfully mushy. My right ring finger tendon still aches a bit from the few days that I used this board a week ago and I'm afraid that the little difference that the grease made is not going to be enough.

It makes me very sad as all the normal keys are fun as hell to type on. So smooth and crisp. I'm typing this post on the Leo and every time I mis-type I fear hitting backspace, it's that bad. I think it's probably fine for most people but my right wrist is my bad one (guitar + rock climbing tendon injuries) and having those keys be the mushy ones is unacceptable for me. The worst part is the left shift is much better but I don't really use that one (though I can if I consciously focus on it).

So my plans right now are to keep this board at home for playing Starcraft (because I'm using the Filco at work) until the Linear R comes in and then decide if I even want to keep it. I'd probably let it go for $50 or something if anyone were interested. Less than 50 hours of use on it so far and it comes pre-lubed so the squeaking is gone.

CephalicCarnage · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 15:50:00 »

Thanks for the pics.

Sucks that you're having such a headache with those stabilizers.

Chobopants · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 16:12:37 »

So after just typing a couple posts here on GH my tendon immediately started acting up again. I'm not sure that it's directly the amount of force required to actuate the key but the awkwardness.

Played through some challenges in SC2 to try it out in a game, have to say it performed VERY well. Blues ARE good for RTS games, just like I thought.

Anyway, this is where the board is going outside of SC2/HoN:

AgentHeavy · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 16:22:41 »

Quote from: Chobopants;328104

So after just typing a couple posts here on GH my tendon immediately started acting up again. I'm not sure that it's directly the amount of force required to actuate the key but the awkwardness.

Played through some challenges in SC2 to try it out in a game, have to say it performed VERY well. Blues ARE good for RTS games, just like I thought.

Anyway, this is where the board is going outside of SC2/HoN:
Show Image

It's wierd you don't have the same problem with the RF 103. The 55g all version is stiff !

NimbleRabit · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 16:24:24 »

SC2 and HoN are pretty much the only games I play, what a coincidence! It's too bad you're having problems, I personally love my Leopold when gaming - it's nice to have such a crisp feeling to the keys and I find double tapping to be significantly easier (browns).

Chobopants · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 16:45:38 »

Quote from: AgentHeavy;328109

It's wierd you don't have the same problem with the RF 103. The 55g all version is stiff !

Yeah that's why I don't think its specifically the force, but the fact that I have to "mush" those keys down. If I want to quickly 3-4x tap backspace there's never any crisp actuation, just kinda goofy sludge.

Quote from: NimbleRabit

SC2 and HoN are pretty much the only games I play, what a coincidence! It's too bad you're having problems, I personally love my Leopold when gaming - it's nice to have such a crisp feeling to the keys and I find double tapping to be significantly easier (browns).

Yeah, I already have a Filco Brown that I bought specifically for gaming and it's pretty much perfect. I bought the Leo Blue to use at work. Ironically, now my Filco is at work and my Leo is here just for SC2/HoN. Meh.

I'm very curious as to what I end up doing with the Linear R.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 16:47:22 »

How do those Leopold stabilizers compare to Cherry ones?

With the Cherry ones, the mushiness is so far beyond the tactile point that it doesn't bother me at all.

Engine · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 17:13:12 »

Chobopants,
Have you considered contacting EK support?

RiGS · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 17:50:30 »

I suggest you guys to buy a Powerball, and move your wrists time to time(every hour).

Chobopants · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 19:07:20 »

Quote from: ripster;328163

Hmmm... a bit overkill on the grease. At some point the viscous effects start kicking in.

Lubing, assloads, and packing it in - ewwww.....
Show Image

I'm pretty sure they are standard Cherry Corp supplied stabilizers like the ones on Duckys. G99-XXXX "Leveling Mechanism Kits". Not much EK can say other than putting a toothpick dab of grease on them.

Yeah, I realize that how much I put on there is overkill and basically pointless but I tried it with a sane amount first and it didn't do what I wanted.

Basically, I need all of my keys to have a similar feel. On both my Filco and Realforce all the keys have a very similar action. On this Leopold it's like I have 5/6 really nice keys and 1/6 sloppy mush that I don't want.

I thought about contacting EK support but don't think there's much I can do about it. Seeing the mechanism and how simple it is I really don't think there's anything else that can be done. I'm just really picky and these keys feel like they come from a lower quality board than the rest. I spend this much on keyboards to have a top of the line, consistent experience. I'm not getting that here.

Honestly, if it wasn't causing my tendons to act up I'd suck it up and just use the thing but it causes pain that lasts me days.

MrSneis · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 20:31:53 »

Wow I didn't put near that much loob ><

BTW I might offer to pick up that leo if you decide to sell

keyboardlover · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 10 April 2011, 21:19:36 »

For some reason this thread reminds me of that redditt "Help I spooged in my wife's keyboard" thread.

Nautilus · « **Reply #33 on:** Tue, 12 April 2011, 16:38:17 »

I just received my Leopold Tenkeyless with Blues and the stabilizers feel fine to me.

Now to return this Lithium Grease...

muchadoaboutnothing · « **Reply #34 on:** Tue, 12 April 2011, 16:43:55 »

I agree. I have no problems with noise/slow reset/shakiness/heaviness of the stabilizers. I'm wondering if I should pick up some lithium grease, just to have around.

Nautilus · « **Reply #35 on:** Tue, 12 April 2011, 16:47:15 »

Quote from: muchadoaboutnothing;329518

I agree. I have no problems with noise/slow reset/shakiness/heaviness of the stabilizers. I'm wondering if I should pick up some lithium grease, just to have around.

Yeah, I might as well just keep the stuff. Glad you like the Leo, too. ^_~

Reaif · « **Reply #36 on:** Tue, 12 April 2011, 17:04:48 »

My stabilizers feel great so far. I haven't done an awful lot of typing on it yet, mostly just some irc stuff and casual browsing. I hope they don't change. The reason that the stabilized keys feel any different on mine is because of the little pads they put on the plate underneath.

drsauced · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 13 April 2011, 13:21:50 »

So... anybody heard the latest come-on in a gay bar?

Engine · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:06:15 »

Chobo,
I wrote EK Support an email on the "stabilizer" issue. I too have mushy/grainy stabilizers and here's Brian's reply:

Hi ***,

Sorry if I wasn't entirely clear in my position. The fact is, these are
Cherry stablizers, and in all testing Leopold has done (and I've also done
in evaluating these products), they meet expectations for a Cherry part.
I do think they would benefit from some grease, but it is not necessary,
and probably will break-in some overtime as the plastic loosens and
wears a bit.

That all said, do they have have the same lightness and compliment the
tactility of Cherry MX switches that FILCO stablizers have? No, I don't
think they do, but they do have other advantages in terms of durability
and user servicability (cleaning, replacement, etc.). So in my mind it
is a fair tradeoff.

If you'd like me to send you a small syringe with some silicon grease,
I'd be more than happy to. Just let me know.

Best Regards,
Brian
http://elitekeyboards.com

I've since taken my Brown and Blue Leos back out of their boxes for re-evalution with Brian's reply in mind:
MX Blue Stabilizers:
I do hear the "click" and feel the "bump" through the mush in the stabilizers and more so if I press them slowly. They still have that sort of grainy mush mixed with the click/bump.
I think the blue switch helps things, as they're more animated and can over power the overall effect somewhat.
Ok, now I'm on the MX Brown:
Again, the same mushy/grainy feel, mixed in with the Brown bump. I suppose that in part, the Brown switch could be a little more docile than the Blue and have a little less stand out effect, despite the mush.
I mean you feel some tactility in the form of a little bump going through some grain.
It feels like someone shaved off the rough edges and smoothed out the bump or something.
Overall on both keyboards?
It's like pushing the keys through rice. You'll feel the bump in the Browns and Blues and hear the clack in the Blues too but again, through the rice.
I'm not sure but I think the stabilizers may be looseing as I use them even now. Not sure. Could be the same and I'm just getting used to them, as I've also looked for and now noticing more the bump and not just concentrating on the mush. Don't know.
All in all, I think that this may pass and the stabilizers may in fact loosen up as Brian suggested but time will tell.
If I didnt' think the rest of the keys on both boards weren't dynamite, and the stabilizers very close behind, then I'd get rid of them.
I'm going to be getting a Filco from Bruce though to compare and if those stabilizers blow the Leos away, then I'll likely sell them and just keep Filcos. Again, time will tell.
Whewww!

RiGS · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:23:46 »

I'm surprised that he didn't offer a refund.

Engine · « **Reply #40 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:35:08 »

Well, the more I think on it, the more I think I may be dealing with the trure Leo and it's really a matter of prefs/subjectivety. I was initially comparing to my Topre, which of course has very solid stabilizers but I think we're talking about apples and oranges and more than twice the price.
I'm actually getting more used to these stabilizers but I'm also curious if anyone out there has a Leo Blue or Brown that has the stabilizers that are exactly the same as the rest of the keys or if that's even possible?
Also, I've never tried a Filco but just the same, were talking about two different stabilizers anyway, which is also why I'm going to judge Leos by Leos and nothing more. I don't know if a refund is actually warranted.

RiGS · « **Reply #41 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:38:39 »

Steelseries also uses cherry stabilizers, and the stabilized keys feel different than the others.

RiGS · « **Reply #42 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:43:04 »

I can live with that.

Engine · « **Reply #43 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 20:44:10 »

Ripster,
Do you think I'm thinking right here in just working with this vs screaming for a refund?
I think there's something to what Brian said on this really, and I think that a fair trial is in order. I have more to learn before assuming anything yet.

BaconKnight · « **Reply #44 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 21:48:58 »

The stabilizer thing is definitely there. I can feel it and I'm not a mech keyboard expert or anything. How big an issue this is I think is gonna be a personal thing though.

Looks like there's a few people in this thread that can't stand it. For someone like me, it doesn't really bother me at all. Again, it's not that I don't notice it. I do. It's just not something that impacts me in any negative way.

Also I think EK's customer support reply to one of the posters is true in that, true, a Filco may have a more desirable stabilizer but there are advantages to the Leopold. I know this might be super minor to some people but the fact it's a detachable usb cord to the keyboard for example is huge for me cuz I like to move around my keyboard from computer to computer a lot. Also when I decide to get another keyboard, if I can find another detachable usb keyboard type (probably another Leopold), I can easily and quickly switch out boards instead of having to reach behind my computer all the time. To me that tradeoff is worth it. For others, might not be.

Engine · « **Reply #45 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 21:55:02 »

For the record, I wasn't feeling inclined to "scream for a refund". I was merely testing my own reasoning with continuing to trial them.
I was just wondering what you thought of this, since I'm just learning this stuff and you know stabilizers.
Based on what I do know, which is little, I am willing to test what Maj said and see if they "break in". It sounds reasonable but as I've said too, "time will tell". I do find it curious that two out of two Leos I have, have this "stabilizer" issue. So, maybe it's "normal".
I'll also pick up a Filco from The Keyboard Co as soon as they restock blues/browns and compare to the Leos. Maybe I'll get a crappy Filco or a great one or some of the same.
This will decide if I "sell" the Leos or not. I mean, the stabilizers are not terrible, just not what I expected.
The switches are great and I think I can live with the rest if nothing better comes along.
But honostly, I am the adaptive type. I am only concerned if this is "NOT" a Leo norm and I in fact have a piece of crap and am testing my reasoning with the facts I'm trying to gather before judging this.
The end.

Engine · « **Reply #46 on:** Fri, 15 April 2011, 22:20:30 »

At all,
By the way. Brian warned about using "lithium" grease and recommended using "silicon" grease instead, as "lithium" grease can "damage plastic". Just want to FYI you guys that.
I'm not even going to concern myself with grease. Not the problem.

manfaux · « **Reply #47 on:** Sat, 16 April 2011, 00:11:52 »

any recommendations of silicon grease I can buy conveniently online? my local hardware store doesn't seem to have them.

MrSneis · « **Reply #48 on:** Sat, 16 April 2011, 00:37:06 »

FWIW I've just gotta say that based on my experiences today that some of you guys who are new (me included) that Filco isn't necessarily the be-all-end-all if you find little niggling issues with your Leos. The stabilizers may feel more even on a Filco but who is to say something else won't bug the hell out of you.

Engine · « **Reply #49 on:** Sat, 16 April 2011, 01:05:00 »

How are your Filco's stabilizers?

News:

Author Topic: "Fixing" the Leopold stabilizers (Read 27922 times)