"Fixing" the Leopold stabilizers

[manfaux]

This is what I've used for similar projects/items in the past.  Dry silicone spray specifically would be best (which this is).

looks good, gonna order 1, hope it's safe!

[Evil_Spork]

After using the Leo with browns next to the Noppoo with browns the difference is startling.
The Noppoo feels virtually identical on all keys, and every key is smooth and easy to press.
This was most certainly not the case on the Leo though. The regular keys are a bit harder to press and not as smooth(not sure how this is possible.. my theory is it's the keycaps) and the stabilized keys are extremely mushy. Nearly to the point of a rubber dome stabilized key.

A good way I found to describe the difference from the Noppoo to the Leo was with car doors: the Leo feels like a brand new cheap American car. You close the door and it sounds solid but it's just a cheap plastic door stuffed with padding so it doesn't rattle and make it sound solid. On a good quality late 90's car the door truly is solid and sounds and feels like it. You can feel that it's solid and not flimsy plastic trying to sound solid.

I gave the Leo a week at work, and while I did get used to it, I am still not completely happy with it. I may be swapping the alpha keys from the Noppoo to the Leo to see how that changes the feel, but I think the Leo will be put up for sale very soon and I will be getting a Filco.

I think there is a lot to be said about where on the stabilized key you press as well. When you press them dead center over the switch it is a bit smoother.

[MrSneis]

How are your Filco's stabilizers?

The stabilizers are even like the other keys.  I agree the feel is way different on the Leo but for some reason it didn't brother me as much and certainly never strained my fingers.  The squeaking is a bummer but easily fixed in my exp as well.

I ordered two filcos from amazon; a red and a brown.  The brown has a very slight bend in the chassis, just enough so that on a flat surface the feet aren't even, two keycaps also had some minor imperfections.  The red doesn't have the chassis issue but it does have some wear marks from the plastic cover rubbing against the sides of the body during transit.

This is what I mean by if it's not the stabilizers of the Leo then it may be something else on a Filco that could drive you nuts, maybe I'm just unlucky and super OCD!

I don't even know anymore, I kinda lost the edge after today.

[mtl]

This is what I mean by if it's not the stabilizers of the Leo then it may be something else on a Filco that could drive you nuts, maybe I'm just unlucky and super OCD!

With the Filco people complained that the LEDs are too bright, the logo too blingy, and the key caps get shiny. People here are always picky about the details!

[alaricljs]

I ordered two filcos from amazon; a red and a brown.  The brown has a very slight bend in the chassis, just enough so that on a flat surface the feet aren't even, two keycaps also had some minor imperfections.  The red doesn't have the chassis issue but it does have some wear marks from the plastic cover rubbing against the sides of the body during transit.

I received my Filco tenkeyless w/ browns from Amazon a few days ago.  It's flawless and I would recommend getting Amazon to send you a new one due to the chassis warp.

With the Filco people complained that the LEDs are too bright, the logo too blingy, and the key caps get shiny. People here are always picky about the details!

The LEDs are damned bright, but extremely directional and I'm not staring straight down at my KB.  The logo is only slightly annoying in that it's a tactile distraction for my thumb when I'm using the inverted T.  *All* keycaps get shiny.

That said I thought I had a bum keyboard, it was sending keys randomly.  Then my mouse started to act up too.  Turns out the USB hub I was using was about to melt down.  The plastic casing was ~105° F.  Swapped out for another and all my problems went away

Now to get another Filco for work... this Dell rubber crap is downright painful now.

[Engine]

After using the Leo with browns next to the Noppoo with browns the difference is startling.
I gave the Leo a week at work, and while I did get used to it, I am still not completely happy with it. I may be swapping the alpha keys from the Noppoo to the Leo to see how that changes the feel, but I think the Leo will be put up for sale very soon and I will be getting a Filco.

On mine, the stabilizers are "ok" but not to my liking and I too will be looking for Filco to compare.  I don't understand why these boards are the way they are but I see others not like that and in the end, I will not keep with what I don't like.
I don't know if I'll get rid of them or not but I don't think I'll be investing in any more Leos anytime soon.
Some here say they have a great board and others say they don't mind the weird stabilizers.  That's good.
I don't really like them but I have no other Cherry boards to compare with but for that reason, I'll give Filco a try.

[keyboardlover]

From what I can tell, the cherry stabilizers seem to be mounted in a weird way on Leopolds (I guess because of the plate). These stabilizers are actually really nice on cherry corp keyboards.

[Engine]

How's your Filco KL?

[keyboardlover]

I like it overall. I don't love the stabilizers and unfortunately they don't play "nicely" with some Cherry Corp doubleshots, especially shift and enter. I took them off today actually and I'm planning to put the doubleshot set from the group buy on instead.

It's definitely a solid keyboard though, and cherry blues are nice. Still, my KL Kustom boards are my favorite, because ERGO clears are my favorite switch.

[Engine]

With the Filco people complained that the LEDs are too bright, the logo too blingy, and the key caps get shiny. People here are always picky about the details!

Cosmetics have nothing to do with "stabilizers", which is what this thread is about.

[keyboardlover]

They are mounted completely differently:

Plate-mounted:


PCB-mounted: (Taken from KL Kustom 1)


Edit: Just noticed that the stabilizers LOOK a lot different overall too!

[oddsratio]

Starting up the discussion over stabilizers again:

So, the KBC Poker Brown came in the mail a couple days ago and it uses cherry-style stabilizers, which I haven't tried before. Like what's been said about the leopold, they do feel a little mushier than the filco stabilizer keys. It doesn't bother me too much, though I'm wondering if any of the available mods, like the o-rings, recommended here will bring back some of the bounce or crispness back to those keys. Right now they are very light and there is very little feedback on actuation.

[wompwomp]

sorry not trying to jack you thread but I was wondering does anyone know if DAS stabilizers are decent?

btw I'm typing this with paintball gloves on and it's hella hard rofl.

[RickyJ]

Das Model S stabilizers are the same as Filcos.

[nesiax]

Hi Guys, could you please tell me which reference are the stabilizers on this photo:



I need 4 pairs of them for a pcb mount.

Thank you all.

[SecrtAgentMan]

The stabilizers are the black looking switches to the left and right of the blue switch.

[nesiax]

Hi, i know they are the black looking switches, but i want to know the reference sku, also if i want to put some of them in a column i am not sure if the holes will overlap each other, i though i need exactly this reference:



So i want to know what is the reference of this keyboard stabilizer for a pcb mount.

Thank you all.

[alaricljs]

You measure the distance between the center of the 2 stabilizer stems and you go here and figure it out.  I can't tell you from a picture of something I've never owned.

However, most likely it is the 0.94 size and you will need G99-0224 for plate mounted or G99-0742 for PCB mounted.

[spolia optima]

Cherry corp stabilizers ftw. Haters gonna hate.

[nesiax]

well it seems that cherry stabilizers dont work because the holes will overlap with each other in a column configuration, so any other recommendation for stabilizers

look:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 20984[/ATTACH]

 ?

[alaricljs]

What size key are you using?   What's the spacing between the stabilizer stem holes ?

[nesiax]

Hi, standard cherry mx blue, and according to cherry website the holes will overlap, look at the symmetric staggered board:



Look at the numeric keypad. i am not sure which stabilizer use ripster on the kinesis numpad, they don't have the same holes, probably they are the w/frame stabilizers ?

[alaricljs]

The Symmetric Staggered is a *multiple configuration* PCB.  The different configs overlap.  If you have a single configuration for the key positions there will be no overlapping.

[silverphoenix]

They are mounted completely differently:

Plate-mounted:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5269/5607463290_a961497f94.jpg

PCB-mounted: (Taken from KL Kustom 1)
http://geekhack.org/picture.php?albumid=114&pictureid=754

Edit: Just noticed that the stabilizers LOOK a lot different overall too!

I've been pouring over alot of posts in making my decision over these 2 kb's and for the mushy feeling with these pictures maybe this is the reason why. Excuse the drawing I did it on my lunch break at work and I only have access to paint here.

Notice how the plate mounted stabilizers like on the Leo's have the extra 4 guides (circled in red) but the other board mounted doesn't have those, just the dummy stem. My theory is that when you press down on a large key you cannot put completely even force on the entire key and it does skew a tiny bit.

now again bear with my drawing but when it skews there is very very little tolerance, especially if you consider the fact that the keycaps stem is round and the stabilizers are square I'd assume you'd have a bit of friction where I circled in blue.

Maybe the solution could be as simple as filing these extra guide bits down.

Again I don't own a filco nor a Leo (I have a meka G1 for 2 months now) but I'm looking into buying a brown after I try my friends ducky when he gets them. I'm no expert but so far the discussion has mostly been about how it feels and the possibility of greasing it helping, but maybe this could be the root of the problem?

any thoughts?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 22611[/ATTACH]

[Chobopants]

Funny that this topic should come back. Earlier this week I put the round 3 SP blanks on my cherry blues. After a few hours of typing....oh no! my stabilized keys are kind of sloppy feeling! Took off the keys, put on a conservative amount of lithium grease and then golden town, keys feel good again. They actually don't feel quite as good as they did before I put the SP keys on but it's good enough. Could be the stems being too loose for the stabilizers or the lightness of the keys, not sure.

[Supergleep]

Funny that this topic should come back. Earlier this week I put the round 3 SP blanks on my cherry blues. After a few hours of typing....oh no! my stabilized keys are kind of sloppy feeling! Took off the keys, put on a conservative amount of lithium grease and then golden town, keys feel good again. They actually don't feel quite as good as they did before I put the SP keys on but it's good enough. Could be the stems being too loose for the stabilizers or the lightness of the keys, not sure.

Quick tip for fixing the loose stabilizers in the SP doubleshots, that is fast, easy, and most importantly, reversable: Cut up a plastic bag (sandwich bag, etc) into a 1/8" wide strip, and then cut that strip into 1/4" - 3/8" lengths. One piece for each stabilizer stem. Now put that piece of plastic flat over the key-stem, and use the stabilizer to push it in. It significantly firms up the stabilizer, makes no mess (like tape), and it isn't permanent (like glue). The thickness of the plastic bag piece is just enough to take up all the 'looseness' of the stabilizer stems when they're inserted into the key stems.

[Chobopants]

Thanks! I'll do that tomorrow.

[noodles256]

i like the leopold stabilizers better than the filcos.

[keyboardlover]

What is the t ball generation? Is that another way of saying you're old and cranky?

[fohat.digs]

I have never had a Cherry Blue keyboard.

So after reading a plethora of posts, over quite some time, I ordered a Leopold  full-size (I don't know about you guys, but I use the number pad A LOT) from elitekeyboards.

I sprang for the soft landing pads and a tube of goo.

Clicky and light is how I want it, quiet is a bonus to help the family sleep.

This thread leaves me scratching my head as to whether I made the best choice for the money (I spent all I could).

On many of my multiple IBM Model M/Fs I have gone to the non-wire stabilizers on the big keys, and I think I like them better. If they fit well, there seem to be no downsides.

My report will come in a week or 2.

[hashbaz]

This is going to be a stupid ass question: On the Leo (or others) has anyone run a 1x1 key on those larger keys just to eliminate the issue entirely?  Super easy/fast to remove keys - no mushy; I thought about this when thinking of my dream space saver: everything 1x1...

I actually had a GEEK HACK key as the Enter for a while on my Poker.  It did look terrible but wasn't very hard to get used to.

[laffindude]

He lacks the noodles? ;o

[fohat.digs]

So I have a tangential but similar underlying question, that I asked earlier.

I ordered a Leopold blue in preference to a Rosewill, based on reading many threads here, as well as the fact that I thought that the Rosewill logo looked hideous, but did I make the best decision at that price point?

I like to take things apart and tweak (break) them, so the Leopold got high marks for serviceability.

Strength and durability are huge criteria for me.

Am I going to regret the feel of those large keys?

thanks

[pitashen]

So I have a tangential but similar underlying question, that I asked earlier.

I ordered a Leopold blue in preference to a Rosewill, based on reading many threads here, as well as the fact that I thought that the Rosewill logo looked hideous, but did I make the best decision at that price point?

I like to take things apart and tweak (break) them, so the Leopold got high marks for serviceability.

Strength and durability are huge criteria for me.

Am I going to regret the feel of those large keys?

thanks

How is rosewill any less serviceable and less durable than leopold? I hate the logo and I wouldn't get one because it but I am puzzled by your statement.

[pitashen]

So I have a tangential but similar underlying question, that I asked earlier.

I ordered a Leopold blue in preference to a Rosewill, based on reading many threads here, as well as the fact that I thought that the Rosewill logo looked hideous, but did I make the best decision at that price point?

I like to take things apart and tweak (break) them, so the Leopold got high marks for serviceability.

Strength and durability are huge criteria for me.

Am I going to regret the feel of those large keys?

thanks

How is rosewill any less serviceable and less durable than leopold? I hate the logo and I wouldn't get one because it but I am puzzled by your statements.

I am a cherry stabilizer users for the past 2 years. I don't really have anything to complain about it. It sure alters a bit of typing feel, but it SHOULDN'T be something to be regreted over with.

[Zamorph]

I don't really have anything to complain about it. It sure alters a bit of typing feel, but it SHOULDN'T be something to be regreted over with.

Agreed.

[sordna]

The difference between the single switch keys and the keys with stabilizers really is jarring. It's just "crisp crisp crisp crisp MUSH MUSH crisp" and my speed drops dramatically whenever I have to use shift, enter, or backspace.

Yes, that's exactly the feeling I was getting from my Poker which has cherry-style stabilizers. My solution was to add o-rings to all keys except the stabilized ones, and now the feeling is surprisingly uniform across all keys.

[fohat.digs]

I ordered the soft landing pads from elitekeyboards, along with the keyboard itself, for noise and comfort reasons.

I am searching for a good combination of feel, sound, and speed.

What is the real difference in feel between the pads and the o-rings?

Reducing the subjective difference between the long keys and the singles is less important to me, but I need a nice feel overall with tactile click and minimal noise.

Maybe o-rings are a better solution than pads.

[sordna]

What is the real difference in feel between the pads and the o-rings?

The pads (even the firm ones) are noticeably softer than the o-rings, so they give a mushy feel with great shock absorption and sound dampening. The o-rings provide a more bouncy feeling (moderate shock absorption) when you bottom out, so they don't alter the mechanical keyboard feel as much as the pads do. What's better for you is a matter of preference really.
For more info check the o-ring wiki and discussion (you can find it in my sig) so we don't derail this thread.

[bokan]

hello, sorry to necro this a bit but I have an fc200rt with the same problem as the OP- specifically, the spacebar and left shift key are really bad- bad as in ridiculously mushy and slow to return as opposed to slightly different.  Are there any solutions to this?  I want to just get rid of the crappy stabilizers entirely and glue in some non-functioning switches in their place- has this been done?  The one thing that I did try is greasing the stabilizers with the elitekeyboards grease, but this somehow seemed to make it much worse (I may have overdone it, but I took most of the grease back out and it still seems terrible).  I'm going to try the o-ring thing next and see if that helps.  Does anyone have any other ideas?

[pitashen]

hello, sorry to necro this a bit but I have an fc200rt with the same problem as the OP- specifically, the spacebar and left shift key are really bad- bad as in ridiculously mushy and slow to return as opposed to slightly different.  Are there any solutions to this?  I want to just get rid of the crappy stabilizers entirely and glue in some non-functioning switches in their place- has this been done?  The one thing that I did try is greasing the stabilizers with the elitekeyboards grease, but this somehow seemed to make it much worse (I may have overdone it, but I took most of the grease back out and it still seems terrible).  I'm going to try the o-ring thing next and see if that helps.  Does anyone have any other ideas?

how bad is it?  a video of it would help.

[pitashen]

Clone or not, the stabilizers work quite well and smooth on my Leopold.
The Taiwan OEM making the leopold boards probably needs a better QA standard.

[bokan]

Here's a fairly non-informative video (can't actually post the link, sorry):

/watch?v=Y5n1pUggw2s&context=C37e86f9ADOEgsToPDskKktP8t-DHxBEY7L3Q6uFa2

So I basically took most of the goop out (incidentally, it's better to take the board apart and come in from the bottom than it is to goop from the top when it comes to actually getting the right part of the stabilizer), and it's mostly back to how it was before.  What I find bizarre is that the razer blackwidow stabilized keys feel amazing (tried it in a store), but these high class imports (I'm coming from a cheapo logitech) all seem to be messed up to some extent.  It just seems kind of inappropriate.  I might end up trying to sell this guy if I can't get it the way I want it; if so I'll make a post.

I absolutely love the feel of the browns- do you guys think a filco with costars would serve me better?

[Human]

Here's a fairly non-informative video (can't actually post the link, sorry):

/watch?v=Y5n1pUggw2s&context=C37e86f9ADOEgsToPDskKktP8t-DHxBEY7L3Q6uFa2

So I basically took most of the goop out (incidentally, it's better to take the board apart and come in from the bottom than it is to goop from the top when it comes to actually getting the right part of the stabilizer), and it's mostly back to how it was before.  What I find bizarre is that the razer blackwidow stabilized keys feel amazing (tried it in a store), but these high class imports (I'm coming from a cheapo logitech) all seem to be messed up to some extent.  It just seems kind of inappropriate.  I might end up trying to sell this guy if I can't get it the way I want it; if so I'll make a post.

I absolutely love the feel of the browns- do you guys think a filco with costars would serve me better?

Bro, you sure you liked it?
[video=youtube;Gl3qgBoW3F4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl3qgBoW3F4[/video]

[bokan]

Bro, you sure you liked it?

Ya bro.  Lol.  I think the moral of this story is that build quality varies, and the designs of lots of these boards are such that small flaws can cause serious usability problems.

[bokan]

So, a bit of a happy ending to this one.  I went to the hardware store and picked up some 11/32x7/32/1/15 inch o rings, and placed two on the center rods of the left shift and spacebar keys.  It made both a whole lot more responsive.  It's still not the same as the regular keys, but it's close enough.  I still think that there is something systematically wrong with these boards, and that some people just have a higher tolerance for it than others, but this is a pretty good fix.

[pitashen]

So, a bit of a happy ending to this one.  I went to the hardware store and picked up some 11/32x7/32/1/15 inch o rings, and placed two on the center rods of the left shift and spacebar keys.  It made both a whole lot more responsive.  It's still not the same as the regular keys, but it's close enough.  I still think that there is something systematically wrong with these boards, and that some people just have a higher tolerance for it than others, but this is a pretty good fix.

I wouldn't call it a "systematic" fault. Cherry Corp stabilizers are known for changing the typing feel of the switch and it is just how the stabilizer works for as long as Cherry designed (long time ago) and used it. Your sticking/mushy "issue" could be caused by the bad QA on the OEM part or something rather more of a personal preference. OR MAYBE like ripster mentioned... it could be a Clone... if that matters...

[pitashen]

At least your controller works.

I REALLY have to try playing around with Cherry G99 stabilizers sometime.

And can somebody check Sixty's wacko Stabilizer Clone theory?  I think the molding mark is a tad different but really doubt it's a Chinese Clone.

I dun see as many ppl here using ducky complaining about the stabilizer. What do ppl at ocn say about their duckies?  Quack*

[bokan]

you know, judging by how some of the stabilized keys are just fine, it might just be bad QA.  bummer eh?