All my IBM Model Ms won't work until I restart.

[Surly73]

Lol - I AM OCing (a very mild OC with no voltage bump)!  Maybe if I bring my 5V Rail to 6V!!!!!   On a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W so I KNOW it's not the power supply's fault.   My Intel BadAxe2 also has a mild OC.  

I didn't say I could explain it, or that it made any sense

[woody]

4.87V is ok, 2V is not.

[audioave10]

This old link might shed some light on the subject. This problem has been around for awhile.

http://ps-2.kev009.com:8081/ohlandl/keyboard/modify_keyboard/Model_M_Modifications.html

QUOTE: When I recently upgraded my motherboard to a new ASUS P4T-E, I was disappointed to find that this motherboard was unable to detect my old keyboard. So after using a $10 plastic keyboard for a few weeks (and cursing it numerous times), I decided to investigate the IBM keyboard compatibility issue.

[Surly73]

This old link might shed some light on the subject. This problem has been around for awhile.

http://ps-2.kev009.com:8081/ohlandl/keyboard/modify_keyboard/Model_M_Modifications.html

Nice find.

[audioave10]

Even from a NewEgg review...
Customer Reviews of the ASUS P8H67-I DELUXE (REV 3.0)
Cons: PS/2 port does not work in many instances. It would not work with 3 of my IBM Model M keyboards (They are all over 15 year old keyboard). I did not take off any eggs because this is a known issue with many modern motherboards, but I just wish Asus support the old IBM PS/2 specs. Fixed this issue with a blue cube (Convertor).

Hey Ripster...did the Blue Cube allow some of those to work on your Asus P67 board?

Also, another massive old link from IBM....

http://www.burtonsys.com/ps2_chapweske.htm

[audioave10]

I guess I better order a Blue Cube pronto. I'll upgrade to Sandy Bridge (or Bulldozer if its any good) soon.

[Tennobanzai]

This was interesting as well.  For the record all my testing was with the shortest coiled SDL cable I have.

I have tested with the long and short cable on my small collection of Model Ms (Three). Didn't make a difference. Didn't work but with the blue cube it does work.

Even from a NewEgg review...
Customer Reviews of the ASUS P8H67-I DELUXE (REV 3.0)
Cons: PS/2 port does not work in many instances. It would not work with 3 of my IBM Model M keyboards (They are all over 15 year old keyboard). I did not take off any eggs because this is a known issue with many modern motherboards, but I just wish Asus support the old IBM PS/2 specs. Fixed this issue with a blue cube (Convertor).

Hey Ripster...did the Blue Cube allow some of those to work on your Asus P67 board?

Also, another massive old link from IBM....

http://www.burtonsys.com/ps2_chapweske.htm

 That was my review :wave: and the blue cube has fixed all my Model Ms on all 3 of my Asus 1155 boards

[Surly73]

So I've made the switch to Sandy Bridge.  My only PS2 model M is at the office though.  If I ever bring the two together I'll post and update here.  

Ripster: I see that you saw the user on [H] report that an OC reliably makes his M work every time.  Weird.

As an aside, I got the P8P67 Pro and I could have sworn that the materials I saw prior to buying showed a single purple/green combined PS2 just like Ripster showed in one of his posts.  Mine has two PS2s - mouse and key.  Maybe only the Deluxe has a shared one and multiple places screwed up their pictures?

[woody]

I'm beginning to swing to the clock timing theory since this shouldn't affect power draw should it?

Signal integrity problem. Power draw change by 4.7K pullups can be safely ignored.

[Tennobanzai]

Little bit of info on this issue from an Asus rep.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037229338&postcount=2453

[Surly73]

I doubt the problems are related but we'll see.

After all, I don't know what's going on in my Intel BadAxe2 but acts the same and its from 2077 when people still did BIOS instead of UEFI.

Well, it's better that an insider is looking at it than having the attention from Asus limited to filing a ticket with a front line service rep, right?

Now that I'm running my P8P67 Pro I suppose I should test every PS2 board I have in the house...  Unfortunately my Model M is at the office.

[keyb_gr]

I guess what's happing is that the controller's logical "high" level may be a touch on the low side to begin with, and if PS/2 supply drops too much under load, it goes down too far for reliable communication. The pull-up resistors help correct that. Sure, it's a kludge, but if it works...

[The Solutor]

I guess what's happing is that the controller's logical "high" level may be a touch on the low side to begin with, and if PS/2 supply drops too much under load, it goes down too far for reliable communication. The pull-up resistors help correct that. Sure, it's a kludge, but if it works...

I still have high doubt that the power supply is the problem. Likely is just a signal treatment problem, and the pullup resistors will help to fix it.

[The Solutor]

The other thing I was thinking of testing was to inject a regulated 5V through a dedicated power supply, bypassing the motherboard.

You don't need an external power supply to do this test.

Just use the untouched 5V from the PC itself, the easier way is to use a a molex to sata adaptor, which is usually bundled with most MB and connect a wire to the RED cable.

[The Solutor]

I've heard of SATA.

Think just that this is not an MP exchange a lot of people read and a part of the readers are newbie, so when there's the risk of burning something if the wrong cable is used is better to repeat even basic concept like the HDD power connector wiring.

[The Solutor]

I love to be pedantic with pedantic people...:bump2:

[The Solutor]

Well, like most of your input you are certainly adding little value to this thread.

 
I already said how to proceed, you just skipped my suggestions.

So don't blame me.

[The Solutor]

Exactly. I'm still not so sure that this will fix the problem.

But anyway is worth to try, if it works you have the solution. If it doesn't you have surely power drains from the possible causes of the problem which is still a good step in the right direction.

[DesktopJinx]

My new desktop, Asus 8PH67 EVO, Sandy Bridge with a single green/purple PS/2 port (or maybe it's purple/green, I don't remember which is the PS and which is the 2 and I'm not looking to find out now), gave me strange behavior with my M15.

I got through at least one reload of the box (it arrived blank), maybe two, with no keyboard trouble, but at some point I noticed the keyboard wasn't working, and thus began a stretch of flakiness. I noticed it would work in BIOS, but once Windows booted (Server 2008 R2 SP1), no keyboard functionality and no LED *Lock action. Damned annoying, especially since I didn't have a USB keyboard handy. (I have a blue cube in a box but I've never needed it so I never thought of it.) I'd hit the reset button and maybe the keyboard would work.

But it seems fixed now. The fix? I bought a USB mini keyboard at the local geek store. It hasn't left its original packaging yet -- the M15 hasn't acted up since the USB keyboard arrived. Insufficient sample size, but so far it's working.

Actually, now that I think about it, it could be that it was flaky with the Lexmark but not the IBM Options (Jul-94 split cord, Dec-94 daisy chain cord respectively), because at some point I switched them. I should probably switch them back, because the Lexmark feels tired. Actually, I should probably dig up that switchbox that works with ThinkPads. (The numpad was never connected, btw.)

Sigh. I wish I had been more scientific, but it was a long week of multiple failures -- FedEx failed to deliver my new desktop, then as soon as I got my desktop my ThinkPad died, my desktop was grooving to the BSOD extended dance mix (Duran Duran would label it the "Night Version"), my car battery died, and my other car got a blowout.

Maybe I'll go back and run through my paltry PS/2 keyboard collection in more controlled fashion. Really, I do know how to do that, generally; it was just a really bad week.

[DesktopJinx]

Thanks to you I had that song in my head all day.
And it was not like this at all.
Not even this.

[Qwertyuiop]

Didn't read the whole thread since as usual it's full of off-topic pointless pictures, bickering and other nonsense, so I may have missed something of actual worth. That said a couple of points:

1) Asrock is the same company as Asus, used to be their budget division, so it's no surprise they both behave the same way.

2) From my own experience, with an Intel DP43TF motherboard, a 1391401 Model M will not function properly if Numlock is turned on in the BIOS, but it works fine if it is turned of. So in that case it's clearly a power issue, presumably the extra current drawn by the Numlock LED. Since Windows remembers Numlock setting per account, it can be turned on there and will then come on automatically upon logon.

[The Solutor]

1) Asrock is the same company as Asus, used to be their budget division, so it's no surprise they both behave the same way.

Asrock is a completely independent company from the technical point of view.

Usually there isn't a single point of commonality between the two MB of the same class, firmware included (often AWARD in one and AMI in the other)

I must add thanks God, given that usually Asrock boards are almost always problem free, while ASUS ones are used to have all kind of problems, especially with the first releases of bios.

2) From my own experience, with an Intel DP43TF motherboard, a 1391401 Model M will not function properly if Numlock is turned on in the BIOS, but it works fine if it is turned of. So in that case it's clearly a power issue, presumably the extra current drawn by the Numlock LED. Since Windows remembers Numlock setting per account, it can be turned on there and will then come on automatically upon logon.

Alli is possible, but I still think that is not a power issue and that 5 mA of power drained by a LED couldn't make any differences.

[DesktopJinx]

Update: I've tried each of my PS/2 keyboards once, and I did not have a single failure with my Asus 8PH67.

I connected each keyboard to the system, which had been off for at least a minute. I powered on, observed the LEDs (if equipped) flash; upon seeing the main BIOS POST, I hit CapsLock twice and confirmed the LED worked. After Windows gave me the Ctrl-Alt-Del prompt, I hit Ctrl-Alt-Del, logged on, then initiated Windows Shutdown.

I tested keyboards in this order:
SIIG MiniTouch
HP SK-2880 (PS/2 keyboard bundled with an HP dc7800 circa 2008)
Fujitsu FKB-4700
IBM PS/2 Space Saving Keyboard
M15 IBM Options
M15 Lexmark

Tested after 2am on a cool night with light rain. The window was open, and I'd just come back from seeing X-Men: First Class. I had a non-winning Mega Millions ticket on the desk, and I was feeling a little gassy.

[IvanIvanovich]

Tested after 2am on a cool night with light rain. The window was open, and I'd just come back from seeing X-Men: First Class. I had a non-winning Mega Millions ticket on the desk, and I was feeling a little gassy.

so are these the required conditions for success?

[DesktopJinx]

No idea. I was surprised at the lack of failure, considering the grief it was giving me for a while earlier.
The M15 worked fine again just now after being off overnight. *shrug*

[DesktopJinx]

Part No.: 1395100
Model: M
Manufactured by Lexmark
There's a sticker underneath that one but I can't read it. No serial number so I don't know its vintage, though it's a blue-on-dark-beige logo if that helps. IIRC I bought it almost-new-in-box from clickykeyboards just before prices went nuts a couple of years ago.

I just tried it again and it worked again. Ctrl-Alt-Del password logon Ctrl-Esc right-right Shut down Tab Tab reason Enter, so yeah it really works. (It feels marvelous! A bit heavier than the M15s. No, I don't have enough nickels here.) Maybe I got lucky and my board's components happen to keep it within spec, or maybe the H67 chipset differs from the P67 in its PS/2 support, though that seems unlikely given their fraternal nature.

I'd borrow my coworker's full-size 1990s M but it's his all-day board and I fear the subatomic toasticles.

[Qwertyuiop]

You really should try reading threads sometime.

I've tried, but when 2/3 of the posts in any given thread are pointless pictures and other nonsense from YOU, I find it a huge waste of time to try to find the actual useful information. So maybe I'd have seen the info about Asus vs. Asrock if it wasn't buried in a heap of Lego pics and other crap.

[DesktopJinx]

The mini-M didn't work on power-up two nights ago. Twice. Worked the third time. (It's been powered-on since.) So I'd call the PS/2 port on the Asus 8PH67 (EVO) potentially troublesome, at least.

[konz]

My Datahand Pro II with PS/2 attached with a y-splitter PS/2 cable to the ASUS Z68 Deluxe did not talk to UEFI.

[konz]

However, the Fujitsu D3076 motherboard (Intel Q67, that is LGA1155) comes with two PS/2 ports that work with my Compaq 11800.

Hurrah for German engineering!  (Fujitsu used be Fujitsu-Siemens).

[Merak]

Hi everyone!
i just got a quite rare Ibm Model M with italian layout (10$ from eBay). and i'm experiencing som issues...
well, not that wierd actually, let's say i'm just not able to make it work with my computer at work.
At home i've just Apple Computers, while at work i've more than one Pcs..the thing is that the keyboqard seems to work perfectly with a self assembled computer, with an Asrock mobo, while it's not working at all with a Lenovo Thinkcentre m55, with intel mobo...
when i plug the keyboard, the computer boots automatically, and the keybord lights up correctly, but as soon as i press a key...booom, the computer freezes and i can't do anything but restart...
any help or suggestion?

[DesktopJinx]

Try going USB at work -- use a PS/2-keyboard-to-USB adapter, one designed specifically for keyboards (not the ubiquitous generic mouse/keyboard adapters) like the "blue cube" adapter.

[Merak]

Thanks for reporting this.  Added to the PS/2 compatibility wiki.  My Asrock is pretty well behaved too.

i made a mistake reporting the model of the Lenovo computer at work, it's an M55e not M55p
the M55p has no ps/2 port for what i remember!

[konz]

I justread  (in Intel documentation) that PS/2 ports are implemented in the Super I/O chip -- this is not part of the processor chipset, but connected to it via the Low Pin Count bus (LPC, which kind of emulates the ISA bus).

So PS/2 support (or lack of it) is a motherboard or Super I/O issue, not a processor chipset issue.

[The Solutor]

UEFI FTW!!!

 
Not to be picky but looks like UEFI atm has ****ed just you...

[The Solutor]

Oh here we go again.

Italian logic random conjecture without realizing that a lot of non-UEFI motherboards also share the PS/2 compatibility problem.

Ping!

My keyboards and my pcs are all correctly working, your doesn't. This is my "Italian logic"

Your (I hope not shared) American logic is still insisting with random test w/o following a basic chain of tests I suggested an era ago.

[Merak]

lol, i'm italian too!

[keyboardlover]

Me too.

Ripster is racist against Italians.

Something about penis envy.

[The Solutor]

Something about penis envy.

 

So you know what is that purple dot in S. Francisco ? :happy:

http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=3073

[DesktopJinx]

No wonder nobody wants to read this thread. "Not to be picky" then don't post ffs.

How will UEFI eliminate the PS/2 port?

[DesktopJinx]

Yeah, did that; UEFI is mentioned once in passing, in the same sentence as the fading of PS/2, but it's a vaguely-worded sentence, perhaps on purpose. Does UEFI dictate the elimination of PS/2? It seems not, inasmuch as at least one motherboard producer has products with both UEFI and PS/2 together. Does UEFI speed PS/2's demise any more than the general pressure to drop anything from the fab that doesn't help sell it? Is there a direct technical cause-and-effect I'm missing? Inquiring minds want to know.