Opinions on MX Red

[SecrtAgentMan]

So for those of you that have MX reds, how do they feel for gaming/typing?

I've had only browns thus far but I would really like to try out reds if they're worth it.

[audioave10]

Its difficult just to find reds. Amazon has the Filco 104 key but I want a tenkeyless.

[MrSneis]

FWIW I am not using the reds daily buy they feel a bit softer than browns so I bottom out on reds much more often i.e. they sound quite loud as a result.  The other night the GF told me to stop typing so angrily!  They are indeed harder to get for us in the states.

[reaper]

For me, it feels like black switches but lighter (even lighter than browns).  I don't bottom out as much when typing but requires some effort and I mostly play FPS games with no problem whatsoever.

Got mine from Amazon when Bruce put them there and good thing too.  Seems like they sold out pretty fast. lol

[Chobopants]

I love the **** out my reds for typing. I've only done a very little amount of gaming on them. I have to say that I prefer the small amount of feedback that browns give for gaming. It's actually crazy going from reds to browns every day. Most people say they're super similar but with a tiny tactile bump on the browns. While this may be true for a 100% objective description, in use they're quite different! Actuating on the browns and getting that feed back makes a huge difference, especially for gaming.

I really like the reds, and blues are probably the most fun to type on, but browns are still my favorite. I know they bore most people but I think they're awesome!

[Orphagn]

Reds are great switches, they feel like Browns without the bump imo. They're great for gaming, but as far as typing goes you'll probably end up bottoming out easily.
I switched back to Blacks since Reds were too light for me.

[nocturn4l3030]

If you can learn to type on these reds without bottoming out.. this is probably the "fastest" keyboard I've ever had.  It feels awesome for typing and i'm an avid gamer, and it's great for that too.  I see no problems with it for gaming what so ever.

[MrSneis]

I get the impression you can be super quick on them, it'll definitely take some getting used to.  I think I need the tactile feel to let me know when to let up.

[jinrawke]

interesting - for the short time when I had the leopold brown and filco red side by side, it felt like the reds were slightly harder for me to press.  This was probably the nature of tactile vs linear though.  

To make sure I wasn't out of my mind, I had my sister (she's a blogger) type on both and she agreed that it required more force on the reds and heavily favored the browns for typing purposes.  
I have since gotten rid of my Leopold (for the stabilizer reasons) and am fully enjoying the reds for gaming and coding.  I do now understand the original thread were there comments of 'typing on a cloud of boobs'.
I could just use these reds for everything I do, but that is not the nature of someone who visits Geekhack. Everyone here will succumb and eventually own at least a few keyboards with different switches.  I need a backup tenkeyless red and another Filco brown in white whenever they become available

[nhwhaup]

I have the Realforce with the topres, had the Das Keyboard Silent with the browns and more recently purchased the Filco with the reds.  My overall favorite is still the Realforce.  My second is the Filco with the reds.  For me I don't game so need the keyboard for strictly typing.  I find that to me the reds are super nice.  They have a very light feel - I would say very comparable to the browns but without the tactile bump and if you can type with a very light touch and not bottom out, I find these quieter than the browns.  I think that with the reds I can type the fastest - literally feels like you can just glide over the keys.  Now remember these require only the lightest touch.

[krull]

I bought one of the 104 key board when they were up on amazon, but i prefer typing with browns (I need that tactile bump to help me not bottom out the keys since I'm rather heavy handed), but i do like the light linear action for playing starcraft with since I spam alot.

[Chobopants]

I bought one of the 104 key board when they were up on amazon, but i prefer typing with browns (I need that tactile bump to help me not bottom out the keys since I'm rather heavy handed), but i do like the light linear action for playing starcraft with since I spam alot.

Very interesting. I'm actually the complete opposite. I use the reds at work for typing and my browns at home for Starcraft and my Realforce for FPS games.

Hate to say it the only way to really know what you're going to want to use a switch for it just to try it for a while. Everyone on here will like a switch for different reasons and purposes so you're always going to get conflicting advice.

[bojinglebells]

I love the balance of Reds and because of that balance they are my favorite switch.  Linear goodness of Blacks for gaming (specifically FPS/action), but incredibly light weight makes them very fast for typing without the problems of fatigue one might experience with Blacks.  Although heavier handed typists might have a problem with the lighter weight, but someone coming from Browns should be fine.

That being said I would have to say I consider Browns to be a fairly balanced switch as well, and that a switch to Reds might be underwhelming unless you end up discovering you're like me and greatly prefer linear switches for gaming (heck, I would rate Cherry Blacks as the best gaming switch, albeit followed very close by Reds)

[kazie]

OP, keep in mind that "light" and "heavy" is very very subjective depending on who's opinion it is.

For me, personally, I love my reds. Typing on them, while taking a week to adjust to their "light" feel, I enjoy typing a lot more. The accuracy is there, the speed is there, and depending on the time of day I can be as silent as I want or as loud as I want. In contrast to a black switch (Harder to press), the difference in the keypress is extremely obvious, just like if you compared it to a blue swith (loud click).

The comparison here to brown switches is by far the most accurate. For you to be able to equate that into something you can accurately imagine, you will need to find a brown switch keyboard and try it if you have not been able to use cherry reds.

Gaming on reds for me is bliss. I wont elaborate as to why because it truly is a matter of opinion. I just enjoy the feel of the keys. I have a friend that can not live without a click as it confirms his key presses. Peoples opinions will be different but ultimately its about what works best for you.

[keyboardlover]

I think reds are a great choice for gaming/typing. They are very nice, light and springy.

[MrPhil]

I really like my reds but my gf doesn't. Because i'm not used to have a keyboard that has so little key resistance i tend to bottom out on each key press which creates quite a load clicking sound. (Filco tenkeyless cherry red). Getting a full sized cherry brown for work to test that out.

For me so far the reds have been great for typing and gaming!

[sordna]

Looks like o-ring, dental band, or similar dampening mod is for you! What's good about these mods is not only they dampen the sound, they make the bottoming out cushy (that's the main reason I like the mod, for the finger comfort)

[keyboardlover]

I really like my reds but my gf doesn't.

 
The TRUE "geekhack" girlfriend test is cherry blues. Many a divorce has been fought over cherry blues.*



* The validity of this statement has not yet been proven.

[Oqsy]

You sad bunch of commies.

Red switches are my least favorite of all MX varieties.

They have a very rough and gritty feeling on the downstroke, where all others I've uses are very smooth. I prefer heavier springs and tactile in
All situations, but for those of you with dainty girl hands, I can see the reds being the natural choice.

There's also a lot of mythos surrounding this switch just because of it's former rarity. I wonder if the stems were beige but otherwise identical, and no one knew they were the mystical "red" switches if anyone would really like them.

My current opinion in order (MX):
Clears
Blacks
Blues
Browns
Anything else (gray, green, yellow, cyan)
Reds

[MrPhil]

Looks like o-ring, dental band, or similar dampening mod is for you! What's good about these mods is not only they dampen the sound, they make the bottoming out cushy (that's the main reason I like the mod, for the finger comfort)

LOL!! No blue for me, i have a feeling that won't go down so well

@sordna: I think i'm just going to practice typing softer and hopefully i'll get used to it, or maybe she'll get used to it... or i'll be on the kerb with my keyboard

[sordna]

Haha, and if she favors usb over bluetooth, ethernet over wifi, linux (or osx) over windows, AND drives a stick, bliss. Ohh and if she typed dvorak ... priceless!

[keyboardlover]

@Oqsy, I KNEW I shouldn't have conceded in that meme contest!!

[Chobopants]

You sad bunch of commies.

Red switches are my least favorite of all MX varieties.

They have a very rough and gritty feeling on the downstroke, where all others I've uses are very smooth. I prefer heavier springs and tactile in
All situations, but for those of you with dainty girl hands, I can see the reds being the natural choice.

There's also a lot of mythos surrounding this switch just because of it's former rarity. I wonder if the stems were beige but otherwise identical, and no one knew they were the mystical "red" switches if anyone would really like them.

My current opinion in order (MX):
Clears
Blacks
Blues
Browns
Anything else (gray, green, yellow, cyan)
Reds

I'm really curious as to why you think they feel gritty. Compared to both my blues and browns the reds are smooth as butter. I love them at work and I type on a "hard" 55g Topre at home.

[Oqsy]

Good question. No idea, but they're not much fun.

[nhwhaup]

Good question. No idea, but they're not much fun.

Good thing we all have our own preferences or what would all these keyboard sellers do?  I like the reds better than browns but not as well as my topres.  I like the lightness of the reds and I don't feel anything rough or gritty on the down stroke.  The only thing that makes me prefer the topre switches is the heavier lower sound rather than the higher pitched clicking of the reds when I do bottom out once in a while.  The more I have the reds, the easier it is for me to just fly over the tops of the keys with barely any effort.  I have no desire to even try a blue switch but might be tempted to try out a keyboard with a clear switch but only if I could try it.  I'm all over buying any additional keyboards.

[acolomba]

Hello, been lurking for about a year during my keyboard hunt (thanks, all!), so I thought this would be a good time to contribute.

Reds have become my favorite switch by far. After a short time with them I had an epiphany: "All the other switches are mounted upside-down!"

When one types a switch with a tactile bump, the force profile is such that after an initial exertion, the finger run in a sort of free-fall unless one applies force to start lifting it.

On a Cherry Red, I find that the force exerted on the finger is mostly constantly balanced, and, as one passes the point of actuation, the switch continues to provide more and more help to slow the finger and lift it back up.

Even if one bottoms out on a Red, by then the switch has been applying enough force that the landing is extremely soft. One colleague characterized the feeling of the keyboard as "it doesn't fight you."

I used to be skeptical of linear switches because of the lack of tactile bump, but I believe that one eventually learns the amount of force required to actuate. I haven't had any instances where I missed a keystroke since maybe the first day.

As for general gaming, Reds seem great to me, but but only slightly better than anything else. I only sensed a mismatch in Blues and BSs for FPS games, due to their hysteresis. (But BS are great for Nethack.)

To better qualify what are undoubtedly my subjective impressions, I'll point out that I'm partial to light keyboards, with a Realforce 86U being my favorite, although I enjoy Blues and BS for the extremely clear feedback. Also, I'm sure that typing style and hand/body position have a strong influence on one's preferences.

[Oqsy]

Argument?

I made no argument. I stated an opinion based on observations. The question was on the cause of an observation. Not fully understanding the mechanism doesn't invalidate the observation.

Your nonstop gibberish makes me sleepy.

Also, read the wiki.

[sordna]

I'm pretty sure if reds weren't a rare item at one point, no one would care about them.

Completely disagree. There are a lot of folks with RSI / carpal tunnel that *need* as light a switch as possible. Different people have different needs, don't make general assumptions based on personal preferences.

[Chobopants]

Completely disagree. There are a lot of folks with RSI / carpal tunnel that *need* as light a switch as possible. Different people have different needs, don't make general assumptions based on personal preferences.

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

I can't even use a board with cherry stabilizers because they keys are too harsh and mushy. Reds are my favorite switch right now because of how gentle they are on my tendons for general typing. Blues are more fun but not as nice to me. I love my Browns and Topres for gaming at home but for hardcore coding at work all day the Reds make me the happiest.

[isp]

I love the reds for gaming and typing.  I type noticeably faster on them than I do w/ topre 45g

[sordna]

if you have rsi or carpal tunnel, your problem isnt the weight of the keys and reds sure as hell won't fix that. don't make general assumptions based on stupidity.

Oh no, another 12 year old.

[panda-R]

oh man everyone is like fighting now, i think its a bad omen caused by me.

Blues > Reds > Browns > Blacks > .XL (IMO).

[.XL]

oh man everyone is like fighting now, i think its a bad omen caused by me.

Blues > Reds > Browns > Blacks > .XL (IMO).

I think your opinion is valid. I'm not a very good keyboard...

[RiGS]

lol

[SecrtAgentMan]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, I might spring for the reds this time around then....that is if any site brings them back other than Keyboard Co, not willing to pay $235 shipped.

And Ripster I'd love it if you could do a comparison.

[sordna]

Let's list the many assumptions that have been made here, by the only person in this thread calling repeatedly other people stupid (without knowing anything about them) and for no reason other than expressing a different opinion than theirs!
About using dragon software: Assumption=windows user. Doesn't apply to me, using Linux at home and at work.
About trying another hobby: Assumption=gamer. Doesn't apply to me and to a lot of us here, who have full time computer-related jobs and write code or do similar work for a living.
About RSI: Once you have it nothing will really fix it, especially you've been typing for 30 years like some of us. But correcting bad habits, using an ergonomic keyboard (like a Kinesis contoured or Maltron or Datahand) and utilizing a light switch HELP.
About rarity of MX reds: I couldn't care less. In fact I wish the exact opposite, I wish that the vast majority of available keyboard switches were good, mechanical, light force switches.
I can rest my fingers on my MX browns without accidentally triggering them, therefore I have no need for a switch heavier than 45-50g. Anything more than that is extra, unnecessary work for your tendons. If you type too hard, it's actually one of those bad habits that will hurt you 20, 30 years down the road.
It would be healthier for anyone to use a light switch, and ease up on the typing to avoid bottoming out, rather than using a heavy switch and banging away.

[.XL]

Let's list the many assumptions that have been made here, by the only person in this thread calling repeatedly other people stupid (without knowing anything about them).
About using dragon software: Assumption=windows user. Doesn't apply to me, using Linux at home and at work.
About trying another hobby: Assumption=gamer. Doesn't apply to me and to a lot of us here, who have actual jobs and write code or do similar work for a living.
About RSI: Once you have it nothing will really fix it, especially you've been typing for 30 years like some of us. But correcting bad habits, using an ergonomic keyboard (like a Kinesis contoured or Maltron or Datahand) and utilizing a light switch HELP.
About rarity of MX reds: I couldn't care less. In fact I wish the exact opposite, I wish that the vast majority of available keyboard switches were good, mechanical, light force switches.
I can rest my fingers on my MX browns without accidentally triggering them, therefore I have no need for a switch heavier than 45-50g. Anything more than that is extra, unnecessary work for your tendons. If you type too hard, it's actually one of those bad habits that will hurt you 20, 30 years down the road.
It would be healthier for anyone to use a light switch, and ease up on the typing to avoid bottoming out, rather than using a heavy switch and banging away.

How about baning away on a Topre 55g? Is that considered okay for your tendons?

I don't want to be one of those guys that can't play basketball 20 years down the road because I can't grip the ball due to pain

[noodles256]

55g aint much. type with your **** if you are scared to hurt your fingers.

[Oqsy]

I certainly am liking them better than I expected.  I need to sit down and do the old Brown Cherry/Topre side by side comparisons now that my fingers have adjusted after a few weeks.

This statement is clearly wrong though.

The first and last lines of that quote are jokes, honestly. Perhaps not funny, but I'm not going to explain or defend them because they had nothing to do with my opinion on the switches.

The rest was a dead serious set of observations and opinions, and definitely NOT wrong.

I don't dismiss those who like reds as I implied jokingly, but ganging up on people who say they prefer other switches in a thread dedicated to opinions on them...  

Well it looks more like defending a position you don't really believe and NEED to convince yourself to believe. This method of forming opinions is very common in teenagers and those who get their opinions from others instead of forming their own.

[noodles256]

55g aint much. type with your **** if you are scared to hurt your fingers.

I am sorry, this was uncalled for. I am just anxious for stage 3

[audioave10]

rough and gritty on the downstroke???

[NormaJean]

^^^

type with your **** if you are scared to hurt your fingers.

[sordna]

How about this for activation force, 10cN, I would seriously be afraid to sneeze in front of a root shell with such a light touch!
http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/

... Another problem is accidental keypresses. These tend to be caused by reaching for one key without fully retracting the other fingers.
These drawbacks would become increasingly severe if the activation forces were reduced further - and could be alleviated by increasing them somewhat.
However, higher activation forces would inevitably cause more tissue damage. On balance, 10cN seems to be about right.

[sordna]

Even 30cn is too light for the home row on a standard horizontal keyboard.

Looks like 45 is the sweet spot. However I bet it could go lower with a high palm rest. On the contoured keyboards (kinesis/maltron) the home row sits about an inch lower than the palm rest area, so when hands are resting, very little finger weight goes to the actual keys. Oooh 30g torpes on the kinesis would be amazing. The uTron has interesting, very tall palm rests too from from photo's I've seen.