competitive FPS gaming

[fbl2g]

hey geekhackers,

Firstly, please excuse my ignorance on the subject - I'm still a little new to the scene.

so, I'm back. Posted about 4 months ago looking for my first keyboard and with some helpful advice and a few weeks research, i settled on the filco tenkeyless w/ browns. When I first got the keyboard, it was amazing. The difference when compared to the normal rubber-dome keyboards I was accustomed to typing on was huge (I forgot to bring my filco to work today so I'm typing on one now :< ). My main problem is with gaming.

I play fps games somewhat professionally, currently competing in a few of the COD titles. My main issue is what seems to be the "double tapping" - or what seems to be a lack of control with quick weapon switching and movement (overall awkwardness). I'm unsure of how familiar anyone here is with the cod series, but an important element of the game is being able to animation cancel (basically shortening the time required to pull out or change weapons by using a combination of well timed weapon switches) and fluently move around. I find that on my filco w/ browns, this is extremely difficult and it feels like I'm oftenly fumbling - for lack of a better word. I tested with a rubber dome keyboard and this didnt happen nearly half as often. After a few months of playing with the filco, it still doesnt feel like an "extension" of myself - unlike my other gaming peripherals.

So here I am looking for what I would hope to be my perfect keyboard. The only thing is, I'm worried about what the actual cause of this issue is. After a bit of research and a lot of frustrating afternoons comparing the keyboards (my room mate also has a mech keyboard with blacks which i've tested once or twice - but not so much recently) I've come to the conclusion that its either going to be:

1.) actuation force (e.g. tapping the button down too many times due to the light feel of the keys)
2.) Travel distance of the key
3.) the "tactile feel" point - or the actuation point.. i guess

I'll be properly re-testing with my mates cherry blacks to see if this has a big change on the issue (I don't remember thinking "wow this is perfect" so i'm not sure if that would be the right fix..) but I would greatly appreciate anybody elses input. I'm willing to drop a couple of hundred (AUD) if it means that I'm left with the perfect keyboard.

Living in Australia means I don't have much of a means of physically testing with other keyboards, so tell me, what should I do? Is it worth looking away from the cherry switches and onto something else, such as the topres? (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?8872-Seeking-Input-Topre-vs-MX-Black rings bells). Any and all advice is greatly appreciated


Cheers guys :happy:!

[Zamorph]

I don't think you should have problems with double tapping on mx browns.  Shrug, could be that term key chattering.

[Orphagn]

I used to use the reload cancel method in CoD4, but i've grown accustomed to sprinting to cancel reloads now. I'm sure each method has its place in a fire fight, but I prefer sprinting to reload cancel.
As for switches, I type rather hard so I prefer Black switches, and also because I found Reds too light for me. But I never had a problem double tapping on Black switches. Maybe you could borrow your roommates keyboard for a couple rounds to try out Blacks.

[noodles256]

i am also an ex-PC gaming elite and would recommends the topre

[What is X?]

Perhaps a linear switch like Blacks or Reds would be better suited for gaming.

[fbl2g]

I'll give the blacks another try, but I'm leaning towards getting a topre... i'll see what the prices are like considering my location : >

[noodles256]

the topre is really good. The variable weight ones aren't as bad as everyone says either. I use it for all my gaming and wouldn't have it any other way.

[BaconKnight]

Sounds like a good plan. I have Blacks and use em to FPS game and love em though I don't do any fancy tricks like you at all. I would imagine from using blacks, you could guess what reds are like, just imagine them super light. If if you're still not happy then I'm pretty sure Topre should be a solid buy since it seems the general consensus is they feel like ultra high quality rubber domes.

[Bilbin]

Oh hey there fbl :peep:

Auspcmarket still have the red tenkeyless' in-stock, blacks are so heavy it would be odd if you type on a brown and then go on a 60g black which the force feels like it gets bigger as you push down to bottom it out. Another thing is that typing on linear switches isn't all that enjoyable by the majority of people, though some actually prefer it more-so.

The topre would sound like a good idea but for us aussies it's quite steep and you might not even like it so I reckon your best option would be to get the reds.

[Arc'xer]

I'll give the blacks another try, but I'm leaning towards getting a topre... i'll see what the prices are like considering my location : >

There was a pro-gamer around here who plays Quake 3 and got the Topre 55 over the mx black and found it to be quite enjoyable. And is used for gaming despite what some would say like I mention in my post.

Topre can be used for gaming and can be quite good but it's a hard pill for some to swallow due to it's value. Plus some have disliked the 55g for being a bit tiring when it comes to typing since gaming isn't the only thing done. Some desire more 45g like the rare yellow topres, a couple of varieties, and the G-tune realforce; not sure on the last one if it's USB adapter compatible there were a few people mentioning a few LAN/Tournaments banning PS/2 terminations due to the required restart.

As for mx black being the best well not sure on that people use variety of different technologies scissors seem to be very popular, a few of the remaining old-school keytronic or high-end rubber domes(non-topre) praise them as well, some like the real(complicated) alps switches, others do fine on any switch. But I will admit the linear switches do have a unique gaming capacity when I did use them, they were different it just required a comparison test, double-edged sword sometimes they were sensitive and other times extremely heavy and resistive. But I stopped using them due to the resistance(even after the breaking period) and even after using it for months typing and extended gaming began to bother my fingers and hands but that's me though it seems common reason for some to not use them.

It's why the cherry mx reds became a craze mostly the tenkeyless since the price but considering I've wanted the full this time around I've kinda hesitated since it's pushing up to topre price range. Can't comment in depth on either the topre or the reds as I've never used them. But generally most will dislike the mx black but then again some would argue lack of accidental key press etc.etc. but if your good at using a keyboard then your not gonna be having accidental key presses so the reds are another option.

[Zensuji]

I dont have any problem at all with reload cancel and the browns, in fact I find it easier then the black and reds. But I've been on them for a year now and before that I used blacks for ages.

Think the best idea would be to use your friends blacks for an extended amount of time and from there work out how you'd feel about the reds as well

[fbl2g]

oh hai bilbin

yeh, its more than just the reload cancel that is getting to me now, the keyboard doesn't feel like ive been using it for the 3-4 months I have (which, in the end, could all be in my head - wouldn't surprise me at this point).

Really wish I could test out some of these keyboards, might wait until the next big lan and just wander around and look for someone with one . Anyway, i'm going to try and convince my room mate to let me use his cherry blacks for a session or two and see how it goes. I'll report back with the results shortly.

P.S. On another note, as much as I hate to say it, would it be worth investigating other keytypes - such as the chiclet or scissor-switch? If the issue ends up being travel distance, this might be what I'm looking for. Hmmph >_>

edit: nvm, just read this:

As for mx black being the best well not sure on that people use variety of different technologies scissors seem to be very popular

[Bilbin]

Perhaps trying the dental band silencing mod, some people reported that it gave them a shorter key travel time.

[Xibal]

you can try getting a topre from here its an australian website, so don't have to deal with those "internationals"

[Daniel Beaver]

Such intense wankery.

[RiGS]

The topre is a ****ty idea.... Get yourself a linear keyboard.

[noodles256]

i am a wanka becuz I likez my topre for teh gamingz

King Wanka

[RiGS]

On a intense wankery note what RiGS meant to say is, "that despite the lack of chattering the fact that the topre actuation point and the tactile point are different - I call this "RipOsteresis" - the resulting confusion in the brain may result is a suboptimal gaming experience".

/wanker

 
Actually I think the topre is very good & consistent in that respect.

The main problem is the variable weighting on the lighter Realforce, especially for competitive gaming,
On the other hand the uniform 55g Realforce is kinda stiff, and takes too much initial force to depress the dome, and after that the resistance quickly drops, which makes it very challanging to avoid bottoming out and quickly double tapping the actuation point. Also the 55g feels somewhat tiring to hold down, compared to the 45g Realforce.
I think an uniform weighted 45g could be a better choice, if you decide to go with the Topre.
Also DO NOT buy the white or gold version for gaming. Those keys have a different smoother key texture and feel slippery.

[RiGS]

The key texture of the plastic is clearly different on those. It has nothing to do with the colour or with the lettering technique.

[noodles256]

idk about that mr rigs

[RiGS]

The red is different than the white, and I have both.

[RiGS]

You can clearly see on this picture that the gold on black has a different smoother texture as well.

[BucklingSpring]

i am also an ex-PC gaming elite and would recommends the topre

Were you able to wear out Topre keys to the point they fail?

[RiGS]

I examined both my red and white keys with a magnifying glass. The difference is sadly not just visually clear. They also feel slippery. That was the main reason why I bashed my new Realforce.

That high resolution picture also validate my concern about the gold on black keycaps.

Also note that I previously advocated the black on white keys in my Realforce colour poll, so I'm not biased in any way.

[RiGS]

I only have the all white European Realforce. Maybe the white/beige Ansi layout Realforce is different.

BucklingSpring, could you check for me whether the numpad Enter, and + key have a different texture than the rest of 10keys on your 103U-UW?

[BucklingSpring]

BucklingSpring, could you check for me whether the numpad Enter, and + key have a different texture than the rest of 10keys on your 103U-UW?

 
Why did you have to ask me? It's already buried in my AREA 51 warehouse.


Sigh... Let me dig it out and check for you.



The

• and Enter key surface seam to be more granular.

Close-Up

[RiGS]

Lol, sorry to hear that. Thanks!

[BucklingSpring]

bump - look above - pictures updated

[RiGS]

I can't see the pictures.

I will check those with a proxy later.

[RiGS]

The red keys have the exact same texture as the numpad Enter and +.

[RiGS]

Does your 87U have the same keys as the 103U-UW?

[BucklingSpring]

I can't see the pictures.

I will check those with a proxy later.

I just logged out and try to see it from another browser.
Crap! It means all the pictures I posted that way do not work. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

@Ripster - How do you show your attachements as pictures without the thumbnail attachement at the bottom (when there are more than one attachements?

@Rigs - Let me link the stupid assets as attachements instead and confirm if you can see them.

[RiGS]

I can see them! Thanks!

[BucklingSpring]

Does your 87U have the same keys as the 103U-UW?

On the 87U, all the keys seams to have the same granularity as the 103U white keys.

Sorry if I say but this is some uber anal stuff. If you wouldn't told me, I would of never noticed.

[RiGS]

Also after they become shiny the smooth PBT plastic would feel extremely oily/slippery.
However you have to game on them a few hours to notice the difference.

[BucklingSpring]

Also after they become shiny the smooth PBT plastic would feel extremely oily/slippery.
However you have to game on them a few hours to notice the difference.

I know what you are talking about. All my keyboards turn shiny and slippery after a while. It doesn't bug me.  Keycaps are no basketball courts. Slippery or not doesn't affect performance.

[RiGS]

Check ripster's picture for comparison.
The red WASD, Esc, Enter have the exact same texture as the Numpad Enter and + on your picture.
If you have those you can check it for yourself.
Those are clearly different then the gold on black and the black on white ones.

[BucklingSpring]

Those are clearly different then the gold on black and the black on white ones.

 Yes yes, no question about that. Just saying more or less grip on a key is no biggy for me.