Author Topic: IBM Model M "Feel" Without the Click? (Read 4889 times)

haziz · « **on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 21:10:19 »

I am a typist and not a gamer. I have an IBM Model M keyboard (1991 101 keys), which I absolutely love. I recently added a Filco Majestouch 2 Blue switch Tenkeyless which has proved to be a fairly big disappointment due to the lighter keys and the high pitched click.

I use the IBM keyboard at home but would like something similar for work, however, I work in a communal room with minimal dividers and would like the "feel" of an IBM Model M but without the audible click. I was initially thinking of a Filco Brown Tenkeyless, but after my disappointment with the blue switches, which are supposedly nicer for typing, now have a real concern. I may prefer a kenkeyless or compact keyboard but tactile feel is my main priority and would seek it in any form

Is there such a thing as the tactile feel of an IBM Model M but without the click?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Hany.

db26 · « **Reply #1 on:** Mon, 09 May 2011, 22:10:44 »

The Model M uses "buckling springs", and unfortunately the same spring that makes the clicking sound is also responsible for the tactility. Any other keyboard using buckling springs (only IBM/Unicomp for patent reasons, I believe), therefore, also will click.

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On the other hand, I suppose some mod may be possible to at least dampen the sound...

xwhatsit · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 00:33:22 »

Pretty hard to get the tactile feel without making some kind of noise.

Cherries are horrible frictiony things compared to a buckling spring (although not as bad as ALPS), if you didn't like the blues then browns are going to be really awful.

There are ways to silence a Model M, but it does tend to affect the tactility somewhat. You can either grease the springs (which is what Lexmark did when they were making Ms at some point), which is rather messy and not easy to reverse. Or some people poke the fluffy part of dental floss down the centre of the spring. This is easily reversed, not sure how the tactility compares to grease. I think it varies a lot depending on the length of the floss compared to the spring etc.

REVENGE · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 00:50:01 »

IBM made a Soft Touch Model M variant that had some sort of damping grease on the springs that supposedly decreased the volume of the clicks. Shouldn't be too hard to match that with a mod if you can find the right type of grease.

gilgam · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 00:51:01 »

cherry clears maybe?
You've got tactility, non so much noise and are stiff.

Another mod for IBM keyboard is the dental floss thing

Pylon · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 05:59:09 »

There are a couple ways to silence a Model M using dental floss or silicone grease.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 07:14:28 »

It'll never be dead silent though. If you put on too much grease, tactility also suffers somewhat IIRC.

Sharp tactility requires abrupt motion (a spring buckling in this case, as mentioned), which in turn tends to be accompanied by some kind of noise. Now you can get quieter than a stock Model M, but all other things being equal, the mechanism with the sharpest tactility will also make the most noise. The laws of physics have resisted bending pretty well so far in this regard.

Surly73 · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 08:03:38 »

My model M has been flossed and remains anything but silent.

I have yet to try them personally, but Cherry Clears might give the OP an acceptable experience.

woody · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 12:45:25 »

Quote from: xwhatsit;344231

Cherries are horrible frictiony things compared to a buckling spring

Does "friction" have other meanings?

xwhatsit · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 21:10:58 »

Quote from: woody;344503

Does "friction" have other meanings?

Well they're definitely not as smooth as a buckling spring (especially a Model F, of course, but even the Model M).

I think a lot of people don't mind this -- look at the amount of people who happily use ALPs, of course -- but it bothers me. I suspect is also bothers the OP as he said he was unhappy with Blues, and there's not a great deal wrong with Blues apart from the lack of smoothness (and the girly click, of course).

ClackHead · « **Reply #10 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 21:14:05 »

Quote from: ripster;344647

It's like trying to have sex without making any noises.

I laughed out loud reading this.

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 10 May 2011, 21:29:24 »

Quote from: woody;344503

Does "friction" have other meanings?

Lol maybe it's because I'm a foreigner. I underdand what he means :-)

The tactility bump in couples of MX I have feel more like a "crunch" than a click (feel, not sound)
crunch being associated to friction.
The whole travel experience on a buckling spring is more "fluid".

woody · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 06:02:33 »

Technically, "friction" is very out-of-place choice for describing MX vs BS. Not to mention, different MXs types vary wildly.
Are the MX Red actually "frictiony cloud of boobs"?

haziz · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 06:16:31 »

Any opinions regarding the ALPs based Dell AT101 keyboard?

anomander · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 07:04:00 »

Can't speak for the AT101 model but I'm typing this on an AT102W which has black ALPS and i have to say that I'm not too fond of it, requires quite alot of force to activate. But it is not as noisy as the model M so it might be worth a shot.

Surly73 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 07:55:01 »

Only the tactile Cherrys (brown, clear, blue) are friction-y because they have internal parts sliding over bumps or cams to create the tactile bump or click. The linear Cherrys (black, red) are not friction-y because there switch only contains the spring and contacts.

It should also be said that friction also adds to key weight as it would be measured by nickels or a rip-o-meter, but in a way that feels distinctly different than springs to an actual typist.

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 11 May 2011, 09:35:17 »

Quote from: woody;344856

Technically, "friction" is very out-of-place choice for describing MX vs BS. Not to mention, different MXs types vary wildly.
Are the MX Red actually "frictiony cloud of boobs"?

What about Crunchy? Keylamity and I seams to agree :-)
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17994-Blues-Are-Crunchy-Dude

woody · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 12 May 2011, 05:23:42 »

Crunchy relates to sound, that's a totally different topic. And the guy I quoted said plainly "Cherries", not specifically "MX blues".

Findecanor · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 12 May 2011, 06:15:18 »

Quote from: Surly73;344329

I have yet to try them personally, but Cherry Clears might give the OP an acceptable experience.

Cherry MX Clears are very different from buckling springs. Different type of tactility. Tactile point at different spot. It is the Cherry MX switch with the most friction.

In general, when comparing Cherry MX and ALPS: Cherry MX switches have friction before the tactile bump/click, ALPS have friction after. Cherry MX handle off-center key presses better than ALPS and have a higher starting resistance which many people find nicer.

mmmty · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 12 May 2011, 21:14:35 »

Well, I'm planning to take my Model M to work next week and see how long I can get away with it. Might be an HR issue. I can imagine people saying "my ears are hurting, make it stop..." :smile:

xwhatsit · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 14 May 2011, 20:17:47 »

Quote from: mmmty;345587

Well, I'm planning to take my Model M to work next week and see how long I can get away with it. Might be an HR issue. I can imagine people saying "my ears are hurting, make it stop..." :smile:

I go Model M at work. Granted, it's a software office -- no phone calls or people having meetings etc. One guy went and bought noise-cancelling headphones a few weeks after I brought it in but stuff it

I've got my 122-key Model F disassembled on the bench at the back at the moment, hooked up to the 'scope while I build a controller. It sounds quieter than the Model M, but higher pitched, turns out they think that sounds worse! ALPS they also think sounds more annoying. Buckling springs are quite a nice noise that fades well into the background after you adjust to it.

quadibloc · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 21 May 2011, 15:18:57 »

Quote from: db26;344164

Any other keyboard using buckling springs (only IBM/Unicomp for patent reasons, I believe),

The patents have had time to expire. One or two Chinese companies actually made buckling spring keyboards, but they had a number of problems - and so the result was closer to being the worst keyboard ever made than the best keyboard ever made.

Ghostpixel · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 22 May 2011, 20:18:38 »

Quote from: quadibloc;349547

The patents have had time to expire. One or two Chinese companies actually made buckling spring keyboards, but they had a number of problems - and so the result was closer to being the worst keyboard ever made than the best keyboard ever made.

True that. First ever keyboard i threw away cause i couldnt stand the thought giving it away even to some poor human being

It was in kind of bad condition too though, but oh the horror oO.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 22 May 2011, 22:28:27 »

Except the lightness was likely part of the reason the Ya Shengs were so awful.

I'm still trying to get my hands on Alps BS. 50g, apparently, but their hammer had an extension that assisted the spring with buckling.

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Author Topic: IBM Model M "Feel" Without the Click? (Read 4889 times)

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