Keyboard for coding , at home & work

[csharper19]

Looking for a keyboard , I'm a coder.
Gonna use it in home and also in work.

I need tactile one , but non clicky.
I think Cherry Brown will do the work,
I figured this is the best switch for programming.

Tenkeyless is better because I gonna carry it to work and back every-day.

thank you

[noodles256]

wlcm 2 gh, looks like you already decided.

gl

[daerid]

Sounds like you know what you want. Might I suggest a Filco?

Or... if you're fealing stealthy, you could try a Ninja

[hyperlinked]

If you're looking for a Brown switch because you want something that's quiet you might be disappointed. While the switch itself is very quiet, the way the keyboards are made make them somewhat loud. If you're getting a Cherry Brown keyboard because of noise, you might want to look at a Topre instead or find a model of a Cherry Brown board that's not loud. The popular ones are all loud.

[Tony]

I own a Filco brown and a Compaq brown MX 11800.

Although both are Cherry brown switches, I see that the Filco one are better for typing but much noisier than the Compaq. So brown is quite noisy sometimes.

Still, I recommend Filco brown tenkeyless for you.

[woody]

Looking for a keyboard , I'm a coder.

So you code? What about data?

Tenkeyless is better because I gonna carry it to work and back every-day.

Without that sentence the Filco MX brown was a sure recommendation, but carrying everyday is plain crazy.
Just in case, take a look at G84-4100 and HHKB Pro 2.

EDIT: Also the Poker, although I haven't touched one.

[daerid]

I used to carry my DasK to and from work everyday, back when it was the only mech board I had.

Then I got my tenkeyless brown and leave that at work now. I too am a programmer, and Cherry MX Browns are the perfect programming switch (IMO).

[csharper19]

The noise isn't important, I can buy Buckling Spring without any problem..
The tactile is important.

HHKB Pro 2 is about 300$ and I can't afford it.

Poker looks nice , is it recommended ?

I repeat , I gonna carry her everyday , I need good keyboard.

So I have Filco Tenkeyless and KBC Poker. The poker is cheaper..

[komar007]

So I have Filco Tenkeyless and KBC Poker. The poker is cheaper..

And the Noppoo Choc mini. A little larger than the poker, and it has the F keys and "normal" arrow keys;)

[Atenacius]

The Noppoo Choc Mini comes with thicker caps so the clacking of the keys bottoming-out will be slightly dampened. If you were to get it with linear switches, it would be even quieter. I have one with Blacks at work and it's still kind of louder than some of my co-worker's rubber domes.

[Chobopants]

I love my reds for coding though I have to say my Topres feel damn nice at the end of the day.

[False_Dmitry_II]

I'd get this: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17570-G80-8113LRCUS-0-on-eBay-for-20usd

and leave it in one place or the other, and then get something more expensive too. Or just two of those, you can get them really cheaply if you use the offer system.

[mmmty]

I'd get this: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17570-G80-8113LRCUS-0-on-eBay-for-20usd

and leave it in one place or the other, and then get something more expensive too. Or just two of those, you can get them really cheaply if you use the offer system.

Hey! I just bought that keyboard yesterday. My offer was $10. Half of asking price. I just wanted to try clear switch.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Yeah, I was surprised at the condition (... of the one I opened) it was much better than I expected, so I think it's definitely a viable option.

Honestly after using it, and hearing the descriptions of browns, I don't think I'd like browns. I might like ergo clears though.

[Sam]

I too am a programmer, and Cherry MX Browns are the perfect programming switch (IMO).

I spent most of my career coding and don't see why Cherry MX Browns would be "the perfect programming switch".  They may be your favorite switch, but I don't see how that would have anything whatsoever to do specifically with "programming".  I consider the keyboard layout to be of supreme importance for coding, with different types of coders having different preferences there.  As to the key switches, I would think it comes down to which key switch you like personally, but I don't see how, beyond your personal preference, any switch has any advantage with respect to coding.

I personally love the IBM buckling spring boards.  Of those, my favorite is the Model F AT, because of the numpad, without the cursor pad.  Actually I use the cursor keys on the numpad, and the regular number keys up top when I need to use numbers - or in the case of extensive number inputting, switch the numpad to the numeric mode.  Tenkeyless boards do not work nearly as well for me, because of the lack of the "numpad" where the cursor keys are laid out in a perfect position for coding, in my opinion.  When coding, as opposed to just typing text, I find I use the cursor keys VERY extensively.  They, along with the positioning of certain heavily used symbols, are the absolute most important factor with respect to layout.

Now perhaps different coders use different methods of moving the cursor around.  For me, I use the mouse very little.  I constantly am jumping around in a file, up and down, to the beginning and end of line, etc. using the cursor keys.  Take a look at the standard cursor pad.  The Home/PageUp/PageDown/End are separated from the Up/Down/Left/Right keys.  It is in effect 5 rows of keys your fingers have to cover while cursoring.  Now look at the cursor keys on the Numpad.  Those keys are laid out in a perfect 3x3 matrix, which is absolutely the best layout possible in my opinion for extensive cursoring.  The Ins/Del keys are on the 4th row if you need them, of which I personally sometimes use, but not so extensively.

During a typical day of coding (20+ hours in my case), many hours would be spent just cursoring around.  Those extra two rows and a not so logical layout of the cursor pad mean much more fumbling around and spending much more time.  If I'm 30% faster with the numpad cursor keys, that means I'll save more than an hour a day with it over the cursor pad.  Quite a huge difference in my case.

So back to my personal preference, the IBM AT, it isn't a perfect layout, being it has the F keys on the left, not up top, and doesn't have F11, F12.  What it does have (actually doesn't have) is no useless cursor pad hindering me by having to skip over that area when switching between the regular keys and cursoring.  However, if I had to lug a keyboard between work and home, an IBM AT board would be way down on my list.  I'd probably be much more inclined in that case to go with a standard IBM Model M, and live with the useless cursor pad.  But even then, a full-size Model M is pretty bulky and heavy.  I guess I'd probably spend more time in figuring out how to buy two and be able to leave one at the office.

If I was designing my own keyboard, with coding specifically in mind, I would make a keyboard which had the cursor keys laid out in the numpad layout, but transposed over the standard area and accessible as a layer (such as over the 'UIOJKLM,." keys).  With one key to toggle the cursor mode on, do my cursoring, without the need to relocate my right hand any, then toggle the cursor mode off to go back to regular typing.  Some boards have something similar, but unfortunately for me it doesn't duplicate exactly the numpad layout, and even if it did, the standard staggering of the keys I think would create some problems.  So ideally, I'd need to add to that keyboard an "ergonomic" layout where the two halves were separated, and there was no staggering.  Something like the uTron, but with full-size keycaps, not the reduced-sized ones they use which I think my fingers would have some problems with.
 
Ok, that's a long explanation as to why I prefer a certain board for doing coding.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but for someone who hasn't yet become fixated on a particular layout, it's something to consider.  Just for fun, you might want to do a test...time yourself for doing a certain cursoring task with the cursor pad, and then with the numpad.  Of course if you're already predisposed to one over the other, it might not be a valid test.

[domin8r]

I think you might wanna reconsider carrying the keyboard back and forth from work. That would get tiresome quite fast.. let alone for those times when you run out the door, slightly late and at the office you find out you forgot your keyboard :s (that would happen a lot to me atleast)

Btw.. I use a Model M at work (usually) and a Dell AT102W at home (a bit more suited for gaming too)

[woody]

Actually I use the cursor keys on the numpad, and the regular number keys up top when I need to use numbers - or in the case of extensive number inputting, switch the numpad to the numeric mode.

I am also one of those who spend most of their time cursoring back and forth and sideways, but never ever thought of using the numpad for numbers (that should be accountant / data entry area). I agree that the numpad is better than the tenkeyless split and I miss it, but it was so long ago. The two reasons that steered (read: adapted) me away were that with the advent of the PC101 keyboard layout the numpad became positioned too far away, and lots of (then DOS) software actually expected the new cursor keys. So liking it or not, I just got used to the new cursor cluster. Which makes a tenkeyless board perfect for me.

So back to my personal preference, the IBM AT, it isn't a perfect layout, being it has the F keys on the left, not up top, and doesn't have F11, F12.

I kinda preferred them being on the left, eventually easier chording with Ctrl/Alt/Shift and less finger stretch. The Battleships posted here and at DT.net looked nice - F keys both on left and on top.

If I was designing my own keyboard, with coding specifically in mind, I would make a keyboard which had the cursor keys laid out in the numpad layout, but transposed over the standard area and accessible as a layer (such as over the 'UIOJKLM,." keys).  With one key to toggle the cursor mode on, do my cursoring, without the need to relocate my right hand any, then toggle the cursor mode off to go back to regular typing.

My HHKB rant was that the cursor key layout could've been better, so I think we're on the same page. But the two problems here are that the staggering becomes cumbersome and I don't see practical solution, and that switching layers would be irritating to me when I have to do lots of 1-2 cursor key plus alphanumeric or del in long sequences.

All in all, everything in a keyboard is a compromise. I can use comfortably few layouts, and that gives me enough peace of mind. Most of all, less typing - less errors.

[devilirium]

If I was designing my own keyboard, with coding specifically in mind, I would make a keyboard which had the cursor keys laid out in the numpad layout, but transposed over the standard area and accessible as a layer (such as over the 'UIOJKLM,." keys).  With one key to toggle the cursor mode on, do my cursoring, without the need to relocate my right hand any, then toggle the cursor mode off to go back to regular typing.  Some boards have something similar, but unfortunately for me it doesn't duplicate exactly the numpad layout, and even if it did, the standard staggering of the keys I think would create some problems.  So ideally, I'd need to add to that keyboard an "ergonomic" layout where the two halves were separated, and there was no staggering.  Something like the uTron, but with full-size keycaps, not the reduced-sized ones they use which I think my fingers would have some problems with.

 
Have you ever heard about the vim text editor? It works exactly like that, and also there are several commands to make thing easier. It's cross platform, so you could run it on whatever OS you use, and you could transport your configs to there. The main concept that it uses two kind of modes, the main mode is where ever key is registered with some kind of command, for example: h for left arrow; j for down arrow; k for up arrow; l for right arrow, i for insert mode.. etc.. So if you navigated to the right part of the code you can just press i to type right there, or a (append) to type after the current character, or type o to instert a line after the current line and type there, or press capital O to instert a line before the current line and then type there. So, basically you'll never have to leave to keyboard for navigational and typing purposes. Try if out =)

(If you use visual studio, there is an addon the does the same thing there)

[daerid]

(If you use visual studio, there is an addon the does the same thing there)

I haven't found one that runs well that isn't exhorbitantly expensive

[csharper19]

I did another research , and found Topre switches.
It sounds good.

Is there any keyboard you can compare to the HHKB2 ?
Any Topre realforce ? it's the same switches , isn't ?

[Reaif]

The Realforce boards do use the same switch as the HHKB.

[csharper19]

I'm so IDIOT. The realforce is expensive as the HHKB (Topre Switch).

Which switch is the most like the HHKB's Switch ? (Topre Capacitive)
Of course the blue is not. Red also (I Think)

What about the Brown , Black , Clear ?

[woody]

Which switch is the most like the HHKB's Switch ? (Topre Capacitive)

Minus the capacitive sensing - a rubber dome.

[csharper19]

I can't get the capacitive sense unless I got a Topre switch?
Well , that's a bummer :/

Anyway,
the KBC Poker will do the job ? It's very close to the HHKB in the design.

I think get it in Brown or Black or Clear ,

but I don't know who is better for Programming and Typing.

[hyperlinked]

The Realforce boards do use the same switch as the HHKB.

They're both Topre switches, but apparently according to a few people here who've owned both a HHKB2 and a Realforce attest that the HHKB2 doesn't feel as smooth as the Realforce.

[csharper19]

Which switch has the "Soft" feeling like the Topre ?

[djmoymoy]

I was also considering getting a keyboard with Cherry Browns for work. (I have a Filco with Blues at home and its much too loud for the office.) Does anyone know if something like this would make the Browns quieter?

[sam113101]

I would suggest you clears, browns and topre.
Only the deck has clears, and it's not tenkeyless.
The realforce is tenkeyless and has topre, but it's too expensive for you.
It leaves you with browns.

There are many boards that use browns, like leopold and filco.
The filco is a bit more expensive, but I think it's worth it.
It has browns and is tenkeyless.

You can also have the otaku version, or the ninja version.
It's the perfect board for you.

[sam113101]

I spent most of my career coding and don't see why Cherry MX Browns would be "the perfect programming switch".  They may be your favorite switch, but I don't see how that would have anything whatsoever to do specifically with "programming".  I consider the keyboard layout to be of supreme importance for coding, with different types of coders having different preferences there.  As to the key switches, I would think it comes down to which key switch you like personally, but I don't see how, beyond your personal preference, any switch has any advantage with respect to coding.

I personally love the IBM buckling spring boards.  Of those, my favorite is the Model F AT, because of the numpad, without the cursor pad.  Actually I use the cursor keys on the numpad, and the regular number keys up top when I need to use numbers - or in the case of extensive number inputting, switch the numpad to the numeric mode.  Tenkeyless boards do not work nearly as well for me, because of the lack of the "numpad" where the cursor keys are laid out in a perfect position for coding, in my opinion.  When coding, as opposed to just typing text, I find I use the cursor keys VERY extensively.  They, along with the positioning of certain heavily used symbols, are the absolute most important factor with respect to layout.

Now perhaps different coders use different methods of moving the cursor around.  For me, I use the mouse very little.  I constantly am jumping around in a file, up and down, to the beginning and end of line, etc. using the cursor keys.  Take a look at the standard cursor pad.  The Home/PageUp/PageDown/End are separated from the Up/Down/Left/Right keys.  It is in effect 5 rows of keys your fingers have to cover while cursoring.  Now look at the cursor keys on the Numpad.  Those keys are laid out in a perfect 3x3 matrix, which is absolutely the best layout possible in my opinion for extensive cursoring.  The Ins/Del keys are on the 4th row if you need them, of which I personally sometimes use, but not so extensively.

During a typical day of coding (20+ hours in my case), many hours would be spent just cursoring around.  Those extra two rows and a not so logical layout of the cursor pad mean much more fumbling around and spending much more time.  If I'm 30% faster with the numpad cursor keys, that means I'll save more than an hour a day with it over the cursor pad.  Quite a huge difference in my case.

So back to my personal preference, the IBM AT, it isn't a perfect layout, being it has the F keys on the left, not up top, and doesn't have F11, F12.  What it does have (actually doesn't have) is no useless cursor pad hindering me by having to skip over that area when switching between the regular keys and cursoring.  However, if I had to lug a keyboard between work and home, an IBM AT board would be way down on my list.  I'd probably be much more inclined in that case to go with a standard IBM Model M, and live with the useless cursor pad.  But even then, a full-size Model M is pretty bulky and heavy.  I guess I'd probably spend more time in figuring out how to buy two and be able to leave one at the office.

If I was designing my own keyboard, with coding specifically in mind, I would make a keyboard which had the cursor keys laid out in the numpad layout, but transposed over the standard area and accessible as a layer (such as over the 'UIOJKLM,." keys).  With one key to toggle the cursor mode on, do my cursoring, without the need to relocate my right hand any, then toggle the cursor mode off to go back to regular typing.  Some boards have something similar, but unfortunately for me it doesn't duplicate exactly the numpad layout, and even if it did, the standard staggering of the keys I think would create some problems.  So ideally, I'd need to add to that keyboard an "ergonomic" layout where the two halves were separated, and there was no staggering.  Something like the uTron, but with full-size keycaps, not the reduced-sized ones they use which I think my fingers would have some problems with.
 
Ok, that's a long explanation as to why I prefer a certain board for doing coding.  I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but for someone who hasn't yet become fixated on a particular layout, it's something to consider.  Just for fun, you might want to do a test...time yourself for doing a certain cursoring task with the cursor pad, and then with the numpad.  Of course if you're already predisposed to one over the other, it might not be a valid test.

Well, I think that non-clicky switches that require not so much force are the best for programming.
There's no sound to disturb you, your fingers won't get tired after 10 minutes of programming. That's only my point of view, though.

[Wibox]

I don't really get the whole "keyboard for coding" thing. I've seen multiple threads asking for the best keyboard for a programmer. I have a decent average wpm, but when I am programming I never type that fast. When I'm programming I am thinking, and I'm stopping often to test or debug. the most intense typing I do is in IRC and IM. Key layout can be important- as seen in the dvorak layout specific to C developers. I've also read the HHKB is good for Emacs but I'm not sure what that means since I'm a vi user.

Find a keyboard that is the best to type on, and you will have found the best keyboard to program with.

That said.. If you want tactile but don't want blues, go with the browns. If you want something that you're going to be picking up and carrying with you everywhere, I suggest the poker for its size.

[theferenc]

Actually, I think the HHKB is at least as good for vi users as for emacs users, but that's just personal opinion. In both cases, it moves the often used keys closer to where they should be.

[csharper19]

I think I'll go for the Poker , it's the cheapier.
I'm not gonna buy filco , the Poker is for trying the Mechanical.

My next keyboard will be defenitly the HHKB2 , but for now I'll go for Poker Brown.

Thank you all.

[Sam]

Well, I think that non-clicky switches that require not so much force are the best for programming.
There's no sound to disturb you, your fingers won't get tired after 10 minutes of programming. That's only my point of view, though.

 
I totally disagree.  Typists all over the world used IBM Selectrics for years and years, typing all or most of the day, and I never heard of them getting tired after only 10 minutes of typing.  In fact I worked in an office environment for several years next to a group of typists and heard them happily click clacking away all day long.  I use my IBM Model F AT all day and never have any problems whatsoever getting tired of typing, even when my work involves typing most of the day.

I love the click sound and would hate to use a keyboard without the click sound.  I've used IBM keyboards almost exclusively for the past 30 years and the click sound is not the least bit disturbing to me.  It give me 100% positive feedback that the key has been pressed, and thus positive confirmation of an error if I mistakenly didn't depress the key fully.

Whether typing or coding, my preference in having IBM buckling springs doesn't vary.  Now I do agree that some people, evidently you included, do not like the click sound, especially when coding.  I think it simply comes down to one's personal preference, perhaps having a lot to do with what they're used to.

[csharper19]

Hey guys , just found out we have Cherry reseller here.
What keyboard can you recommend me from Cherry Company ?

Is the G84-4100 is good ?
He sells it for 74$ (US Dollars) or 250 ILS.
with Hebrew layout is 86$ or 290 ILS.

Is there any cherry keyboard that I'll be satisfied from it ?

[Chobopants]

I don't really get the whole "keyboard for coding" thing. I've seen multiple threads asking for the best keyboard for a programmer. I have a decent average wpm, but when I am programming I never type that fast. When I'm programming I am thinking, and I'm stopping often to test or debug. the most intense typing I do is in IRC and IM. Key layout can be important- as seen in the dvorak layout specific to C developers. I've also read the HHKB is good for Emacs but I'm not sure what that means since I'm a vi user.

Find a keyboard that is the best to type on, and you will have found the best keyboard to program with.

That said.. If you want tactile but don't want blues, go with the browns. If you want something that you're going to be picking up and carrying with you everywhere, I suggest the poker for its size.

I agree with this mostly. I only disagree in that I get going REALLY fast in vi when I start pumping out some boilerplate code (getter/setters etc).

I think, depending on preference, that Topre, Blue, Brown, Red are all great for typing/coding (yes they are the same thing) and its entirely on what you feel is best for you. Until you try the switches you aren't going to know what your favorite is.

[kps]

I betcha people on punchcards were lousy programmers because of this.

>implying programmers punched cards


[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 18984[/ATTACH]

[Wibox]

>implying programmers punched cards

>2011
>green texting on a vBulletin™ board

[pcunite]

I have only tried the Black MX switch on a tenkeyless Filco board and I love it. Didn't really want to take the time to order them all and test. Maybe I'm easy to please.

[Engine]

I used to carry my DasK to and from work everyday, back when it was the only mech board I had.

Then I got my tenkeyless brown and leave that at work now. I too am a programmer, and Cherry MX Browns are the perfect programming switch (IMO).

Hey, I'm a programmer in training.  That is, I bought my own books and am diving into MS training in VS/VB, etc at home.
I also love browns and am intrigured by your comment on them being good for coding.  Can you explain?  Thanks.

[keyboardlover]

I code with ergo clears at home and topre at work. I don't think it matters much though. Coding and typing are pretty similar activities.

[sam113101]

Hey, I'm a programmer in training.  That is, I bought my own books and am diving into MS training in VS/VB, etc at home.
I also love browns and am intrigured by your comment on them being good for coding.  Can you explain?  Thanks.

Well, I think that non-clicky switches that require not so much force are the best for programming.
There's no sound to disturb you, your fingers won't get tired after 10 minutes of programming. That's only my point of view, though.

Those are two good arguments I think.

[daerid]

(My $0.02): I prefer browns the best for programming

[Wibox]

I code with ergo clears at home and topre at work. I don't think it matters much though. Coding and typing are pretty similar activities.

 
Programming is typing.

Still don't get the whole "this keyboard is better for programming" thing.

[Hydroid]

Well for my input, I just got my first blues and while I'm not a programmer by profession, I've been known to dabble and do the occasional basic web design and I can't wait to let it fly with these blues, I think they'd be great for coding. I've only been using it for a day but the clicking isn't that bad, if you really poke hard at the keys and consistently bottom out with high force they will be loud but I'd think you'd get that from browns too anyway unless you plan to silence them.