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Author Topic: Model M Vs F  (Read 4283 times)

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Offline ben90

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  • Posts: 5
Model M Vs F
« on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 07:16:07 »
Skip to under the ___line___ if you don't want to hear the backstory.

Wow I hate you guys. I just should have stuck with my horrible rubber dome keyboard and kept my blissful ignorance. I thought this website was full of fanatics, but now it appears I'm turning into one!

Anyways, after getting advice about a year ago, I was transformed into a mechanical-only-user. My Filco Blue Majestouch has lasted me about a year so far and am overall happy with it. Just recently I took a trip to best buy with my roommate because she needed a keyboard (ironically enough). She ended up with a horrible wireless keyboard because it was cute. I just bit my tongue because she is computer illiterate.

Anyways, while in the section they had some old register computer for employee use. Attached was a beast of a keyboard. My curiosity got the best of me and I went over and pounded on some keys. LOVE AT FIRST POUND! This thing absolutely blew away my Cherry Blues. I looked on the back and it appeared to be a Model M retrofitted to cashier duty. I'm just not happy with my Blues anymore, I need some buckling spring action!
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My biggest worry with purchasing a Model M was that it could be based on a horrible key matrix and only support 2KRO. Enter the Model F. A comment on this forum suggested that the IBM Model F has NKRO! As a gamer this is very important to me. NKRO or at least 6KRO is a necessity for me because sometimes I play those games that split the keyboard controls with a friend.

I do have some (a lot) of questions regarding the F however. Most importantly, does it indeed have NKRO?

Do we have any general typing comparisons? I heard the F has a slightly longer travel key actuation which worries me slightly. I game very competitively and wouldn't want something with a ridiculous amount of travel. If its still reasonable I don't believe it will be a turn off however.

If the first two questions don't disqualify the board for me, what should I be looking for in regards to specific model #'s and adapters. Thank you all for any input.
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Offline domin8r

  • Posts: 162
Model M Vs F
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 08:05:41 »
I love the **** out of my Model M but really wouldn't do any gaming on it (well not a FPS at least). Something a bit lighter would work a lot better..
But I can imagine switching back and forth would be a hassle.
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Offline theferenc

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 08:13:47 »
The F is a) hard to find, b) often hard to use on modern systems, c) has a funky layout usually.

Also, no arrow keys, I believe only one each of control and alt (if even that), and hitting Control-Alt-Del for domain logins and whatnot might be...tricky.

I would suggest whenever you need to play a game that splits the keyboard, just hook up another keyboard...
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
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Offline kps

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 09:24:44 »
Quote from: ben90;358350
I heard the F has a slightly longer travel key actuation which worries me slightly. I game very competitively and wouldn't want something with a ridiculous amount of travel. If its still reasonable I don't believe it will be a turn off however.

In my experience the F activates very very close to the bottom of the keystroke, like a rubber dome.
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Offline Daniel Beaver

  • Posts: 504
Model M Vs F
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 09:27:35 »
The Model F is indeed NKRO. They are also very hard to find. They also have a strange layout, which most people find unbearable.

The Model M is a great gaming board - don't let those naysayers discourage you
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Offline ben90

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 13:57:56 »
I must admit, I'm slightly temped by the unorthodox design of the 84 key 6450200 design. All the other F boards just don't have the same pizzaz as the 6450200.

I know the "M" is legendary, but I just have problems dropping money on something that isn't at least close to NKRO. Its probably a peace of mind thing more than anything I'll actually need. I went through a bit of buyers remorse when I accidentally got the 2KRO Filco even though in hindsight it only had problems <1% of the time.

kps, do you suggest that the low activation point is distracting enough to disqualify it for the most picky of users? It would suck to spend hours and hours searching online and dropping $200+ on a board to find out I should have just gone with the contemporary "M". Obviously you can't speak for everyone, but I'd hate to find out I really don't like it all that much.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:24:00 »
What's the response time of the m?

I ask, because I remember seeing in that model f mods thread that its standard time seemed kinda slow. But that was just because of the way it senses the keystrokes, and not something between it and the computer being slow.
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Offline bhtooefr

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 14:39:24 »
I'd go Model F any day over a Model M.

Model F gets you superior key feel, NKRO, and the 122-key ones are a fairly similar layout to modern keyboards. And, it's not that hard to adapt a 122 F to USB - and you still get NKRO.
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Offline bhtooefr

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 20:07:30 »
Don't use it on a PS/2 port, use it on a USB port. No soldering required.
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Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
Model M Vs F
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 10 June 2011, 22:44:03 »
Quote from: ben90;358581
kps, do you suggest that the low activation point is distracting enough to disqualify it for the most picky of users? It would suck to spend hours and hours searching online and dropping $200+ on a board to find out I should have just gone with the contemporary "M". Obviously you can't speak for everyone, but I'd hate to find out I really don't like it all that much.

 
They're both nice to type on. I'm not a gamer but I think I've read that some don't like having the deactivation point noticeably higher than the activation point.



As I have no US nickels at hand this graph should not be considered authoritative.
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Offline theferenc

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:16:43 »
Are F's bolt moddable? Specifically, can you swap keys around as in the international mod?
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline bhtooefr

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:23:37 »
The bolt mod and swapping keys around are two separate things.

But, the answer to both questions is yes. A Model M is the best donor for everything, really. (Also, vertical keys, like numpad enter, grab the key and stabilizer from a Model M, and use them anyway, if you're taking things apart, even if you're keeping that part of the layout the same as before.)

(The Model F assembly is done by interlocking two steel plates, with everything between the plates. No rivets. But, if you want to make things stiffer (really only useful on 122-key boards), there are ways to do a bolt mod.)
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:25:50 by bhtooefr »
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Offline theferenc

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:41:23 »
Ah, ok, I didn't realize they were that distinct on the F. On the M, you have to do the bolt mod to move the keys around, simply because you destroy the current assembly when you disassemble it. I assumed it was similar on the F keyboards.
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HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline bhtooefr

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:45:11 »
The fun part is, there are actually a few early weird (nothing 101-key) variants of Model M that are really membrane Model Fs, and therefore have the same interlocking plates construction.
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Offline ch_123

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Model M Vs F
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 11 June 2011, 05:52:39 »
Quote from: theferenc;358926
Are F's bolt moddable? Specifically, can you swap keys around as in the international mod?

 



All that was required was a pliers and a hammer. (Not including what is needed to open the case)
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