First mechanical keyboard

[Tohveli]

Hi!
I'm about to get my first mechanical keyboard but I'm having a hard time deciding what to get and how. Right now I'm leaning towards getting a filco majestouch-2 tenkeyless(cherry mx black, main purpose gaming + I bash my keys pretty hard) because it's the only one I can find with finnish/swedish layout that is being distributed by a company here in Finland (If anyone's interested head to http://www.silentrig.com).

However I have a second choice. My cousin is living in shanghai right now so I could ask her to purchase a keyboard for me. Only thing is that they know nothing about keyboards. This would mean I would have to prepare everything so the only thing they would have to do is send it to me from shanghai. Now I've been lurking around and I found another thread about china which was pretty short and didn't answer any questions. Now I don't know at all about what keyboards are to be found in china. I know ducky is manufactured there but I don't see any reason getting a ducky over a filco when it's that much extra work.

Two keyboards that interest me to the extent that I could even consider switching the ISO-layout to ANSI would be the noppoo choc mini or the vortex poker. Has anybody any knowledge of any stores or easy ways of coming by one of these and is it hard to switch from an ISO-layout to an ANSI-layout?

[reaper]

Welcome to GH and I think Filco with black switches would be perfect for you (sometimes I mash my keys pretty hard also and black switch is perfect for that).  Also check out this link here (look for China in there).  Good luck and let us know which one you get.

[Astounding]

Hi!
I'm about to get my first mechanical keyboard but I'm having a hard time deciding what to get and how. Right now I'm leaning towards getting a filco majestouch-2 tenkeyless(cherry mx black, main purpose gaming + I bash my keys pretty hard) because it's the only one I can find with finnish/swedish layout that is being distributed by a company here in Finland (If anyone's interested head to http://www.silentrig.com).

However I have a second choice. My cousin is living in shanghai right now so I could ask her to purchase a keyboard for me. Only thing is that they know nothing about keyboards. This would mean I would have to prepare everything so the only thing they would have to do is send it to me from shanghai. Now I've been lurking around and I found another thread about china which was pretty short and didn't answer any questions. Now I don't know at all about what keyboards are to be found in china. I know ducky is manufactured there but I don't see any reason getting a ducky over a filco when it's that much extra work.

Two keyboards that interest me to the extent that I could even consider switching the ISO-layout to ANSI would be the noppoo choc mini or the vortex poker. Has anybody any knowledge of any stores or easy ways of coming by one of these and is it hard to switch from an ISO-layout to an ANSI-layout?

The ducky is significantly less money if you're open to other options.  They can be purchased from pchome with 20 dollar worldwide shipping, iirc.

[IvanIvanovich]

I recall seeing a Poker twin somewhere with an ISO layout, but can't seem to find it, or remember what it was called. Pretty much any mech will be available in Shanghai, for less money than most places. If you're wanting to save a lot of money it may be worth the hassle. If you want to buy locally and get your nordic layout that Filco would be a good buy too.

[Tohveli]

Thanks for all the fast help...gonna keep googling for shops in shanghai. Maybe I should start reading mandarin xD

[peda]

also an option is http://keyboardco.com/

they have filcos with different layouts (including swedish/finish) in the program.

[The Solutor]

coming by one of these and is it hard to switch from an ISO-layout to an ANSI-layout?

 
IMO is just hideous because the tiny enter, not beacause the logical layout nor the missing additional key.

BTW you have a wide range of options

From the cheap Cherry boards available in Germany and other EU countries, to the topre available in ISO Nordic layout, to the nice Qpad-MK80 available in UK and nordic layout, to the steelseries 6gv2 that even in the US variant has a nice layout with a good sized enter key, to the upcoming Mionix Z60 available in various ISO layouts (Nordic included)

[TacticalCoder]

IMO is just hideous because the tiny enter, not beacause the logical layout nor the missing additional key.

Which one is "hideous"?  On ANSI the ENTER key covers a slightly smaller area because it is not 'L' shaped but it is also far easier to reach for your right-pinky.

Between ANSI and ISO, ANSI is far superior for two reasons: a) biggest left SHIFT (less RSI-inducing left-pinky distortion to reach the big left SHIFT) and b) easier to reach ENTER key (less RSI-inducing right-pinky distortion to reach the horizontal ENTER).

Time for this:



To the OP: I'm european and so I should be ISO-biased (just because I'm european, see !?) yet I can switch between both (qwerty) ISO and (qwerty) ANSI and I find that ANSI is simply better.   Also, I'm happy that I can type switch between ANSI and ISO at will because one day I'll find a cheap M15 (just like I found a bargain ISO MX 5000) and that cheap M15 will be ANSI (because there are no non-ANSI M15 apparently ; )  

Here's the poll:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?14646-ANSI-or-ISO-Which-lay-out-do-you-prefer

[Tohveli]

Time for this:

Show Image

To the OP: I'm european and so I should be ISO-biased (just because I'm european, see !?) yet I can switch between both (qwerty) ISO and (qwerty) ANSI and I find that ANSI is simply better.   Also, I'm happy that I can type switch between ANSI and ISO at will because one day I'll find a cheap M15 (just like I found a bargain ISO MX 5000) and that cheap M15 will be ANSI (because there are no non-ANSI M15 apparently ; )

When I look at the ANSI-layout I really do like it. I could be using it since I mostly type in english. I still live in Finland though and write in both swedish and finnish so åäö is in heavy use when I do school work. For coding though I could use the ANSI-layout but switching between swedish/finnish ISO and ANSI could be bothersome. They should make a Swedish/finnish ansi-layout :D

[The Solutor]

Time for this:

 
Time for this, (again).



Btw, you (as a lot o people here) are used to project to the other users your own condition.

Touch typists are not the majority of the users, as are the heavy keyboard users. The biggest part of PC users aren't coders, doesn't consider the keyboard as an extension of their brain and not spend all of their PC time with the hands in the home position.

And although some of them want a keyboard that just works others are interested in good peripherals and they want to use the one they are used to.

Just for example, If we want to argue about the correct driving side, British people are the ones more right, but for reason that all we know (i presume) most the people around the world are used to drive in the opposite side.

So, no matter what we can say about the correct driving side, people want just to drive in the way are used to, and the same will apply to keyboards layouts.

Personally I have my right hand 90% of the time over the mouse and often I have just to wrote few words and hit enter, I couldn't care less about my right pinky, I want just an enter key easy to hit jumping back and forth between mouse and keyboard. And I'm sure I'm not alone

[ch_123]

tl;dr version: "The ANSI return sucks because I don't know how to type"

Anyway, to answer the OP's question before another new person's thread is destroyed by one of Solutor's sperge-fests, I was typing on ISO keyboards for 15 years or so before moving onto ANSI. It takes a little bit of getting used to, but it's not really a big problem. I can switch between the two of them easily enough, although I have a preference for ANSI due to reasons that have been described above - it just makes more sense for people who type on their keyboards. You know, that funny thing that keyboards are often designed to do.

[The Solutor]

tl;dr version: "The ANSI return sucks because I don't know how to type"

 
And then ? Is written somewhere on the constitution that people must be obliged to touchtype ?

[ch_123]

On a forum where people own multiple $100+ keyboards, or are preparing to buy their first of possibly many, it is a reasonable assumption that a large number of them are proficient typists.

Y'know, typing, that thing that people do on keyboards.

[The Solutor]

Y'know, typing, that thing that people do on keyboards.

I agree with you here.

Indeed, as you said, "typing, that thing that people do on keyboards". Touchtyping , that thing that some people do on keyboards.

On a forum where people own multiple $100+ keyboards, or are preparing to buy their first of possibly many, it is a reasonable assumption that a large number of them are proficient typists.

You see just what you want to see.

I can see people interested in technology, collectors, modders, deep pockeded people, electronics hobbyists, nostalgic users, and so on, and also touch typists, programmers, shell users, shell integralists and so on.

[IvanIvanovich]

Agreed, I would also assume that more of the forum members than not are at least competent enough to not have to be constantly looking at the keyboard and typing with 2 fingers. Arguing that not being a touch typist makes ISO better is not a very good one. If you just left it at I use ISO because I think its more comfortable, or because that is what I've always used, and that is what i know it would make more sense. For a non touch typist you could put the enter key anywhere in any of the shapes in your chart and it would probably make little difference. If you are a touch typist using the same layout for a long time, then yes, it would throw someone off. Like when i try to use ISO instead of ANSI for example, I'm constantly going "where the **** is the \ key?", and am pressing Enter by mistake a lot. So I would think an ISO user would have the opposite problem where they end up pressing the \ key by mistake expecting Enter. Either way though its preference to comfort and how easy it is for you to adjust to something new.

[ch_123]

You see just what you want to see.

I can see people interested in technology, collectors, modders, deep pockeded people, electronics hobbyists, nostalgic users, and so on, and also touch typists, programmers, shell users, shell integralists and so on.

Obviously people have interests outside of keyboards, would be rather worrying if they didn't. But first and foremost it is a keyboard forum, and there's not much point in arguing that, especially in a thread where someone who apparently is a computer programmer is looking to buy an expensive keyboard.

Situational awareness, seeing what you want to see, and all that.

[The Solutor]

Agreed, I would also assume that more of the forum members than not are at least competent enough to not have to be constantly looking at the keyboard and typing with 2 fingers.

Agreed too, but the world is not just black or white, and typing styles aren't just limited to canonical touch typists and two finger amateurs, I'm used to type with two finger when I've just to correct a single word or in a "quasi touch typing" way when i have to write a longer document, if you keep attention in offices you can see a wide variant of typing styles.

So I would think an ISO user would have the opposite problem where they end up pressing the \ key by mistake expecting Enter.

Exactly

Either way though its preference to comfort and how easy it is for you to adjust to something new.

Obviously adapting to something new, when is a little thing like this is not a biggie. But I ask myself why I have to adapt me to a stupid object, when a can easily adapt the object to my needs especially in this case when I>A

[arc2]

So I would think an ISO user would have the opposite problem where they end up pressing the \ key by mistake expecting Enter. Either way though its preference to comfort and how easy it is for you to adjust to something new.

 
Absolutely, my current home keyboard is ANSI, coming from ISO and I have been through the \ key thing, took me a while but I am getting used to it now.

[Astounding]

Touch typing is overrated.

[The Solutor]

But first and foremost it is a keyboard forum, and there's not much point in arguing that

Indeed.

Iso keyboards are still keyboards, and a Finnish user who ask how is ANSI, is surely used to ISO keyboards, so arguing or not, my first concern was to give him options where buy good keyboards.

It's not me the one who started arguing, I started trying to be helpful, because this is always my first concern on forums.

[eyesnine]

My first mechanical keyboard was a used Cherry MX 8100 from eBay (ISO layout). I recommend starting with an old Cherry board. They're relatively inexpensive. They'll most likely feature MX Browns, Clears or Blacks, all of which are decent options. There are other brands that use Cherry keyswitches also, that can be acquired at minimal cost.

Also, keep in mind that you may change your mind on what your favorite keyswitches are. So starting with a cheap set of Cherry switches is a good introduction. You might even get into experimenting - modifying the keyswitches to your own specifications.

After you know what your favorite keyswitch is you'll be ready to commit to a Filco.

[Tohveli]

I'm actually on the list to get different switches from CeeSaa's cherry switch sinklist. Will probably decide after that what switch I will be pursuing. I think that it'll be the easiest way to determine which switch I like the most and then start to look for keyboards with that switch...

[arc2]

I recommend starting with an old Cherry board. They're relatively inexpensive. They'll most likely feature MX Browns, Clears or Blacks, all of which are decent options. There are other brands that use Cherry keyswitches also, that can be acquired at minimal cost.

Also, keep in mind that you may change your mind on what your favorite keyswitches are. So starting with a cheap set of Cherry switches is a good introduction. You might even get into experimenting - modifying the keyswitches to your own specifications.

After you know what your favorite keyswitch is you'll be ready to commit to a Filco.

You could try one of these to start?

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?19186-Cherry-DE.-MX-Blacks.-Offer.

[eyesnine]

I'm actually on the list to get different switches from CeeSaa's cherry switch sinklist. Will probably decide after that what switch I will be pursuing. I think that it'll be the easiest way to determine which switch I like the most and then start to look for keyboards with that switch...

That's not a bad idea, but it's tough to tell from a single switch what it's like to type on a whole keyboard of them.

You will be able to cross some switches off your list, for sure, (I'm thinking MX blues and ALPs won't work well for you), but you may not appreciate the more subtle differences between MX browns, reds, clears and blacks.

Also, plate mounting vs board mounting is another factor to consider. Plate mounted switches feel much more solid. Board mounted switches are much easier to customize.

[Tohveli]

ok, well CeeSaa's sinklist will have the switches mounted on them as the "wasd"-cluster so it will be a bit better than a single key...I actually tried the razer black widow's mx blues and didn't like them at all.

[Astounding]

ok, well CeeSaa's sinklist will have the switches mounted on them as the "wasd"-cluster so it will be a bit better than a single key...I actually tried the razer black widow's mx blues and didn't like them at all.

I also tried the black widow blues, and much preferred the siig with alps.  I can only imagine a nicer alps board would be even better.  The cherry blues felt a bit too soft and "cheap" to me.  What didn't you like about the blues?

[TacticalCoder]

Touch typists are not the majority of the users, as are the heavy keyboard users.

Sings the troll on a forum basically dedicated to quality input devices...

Dude, this is GH.  This is the place where people either know or learn one or two things about typing.

But anyway, two days ago I voted for you as the biggest troll (because I don't like the tone --both trollish and aggressive-- that shows in nearly every single of your post) and now it's:

   Settings

Edit Ignore List

"The Solutor"

Okay

Save Changes



Good riddance aggressive troll!

[The Solutor]

Sings the troll on a forum basically dedicated to quality input devices...

 
So how come that you haven't made your own custom keyboard like I did  ? Should I blame you because likely you have no idea about soldering or measuring something ?

If you want respect start to give respect other people

Dude, this is GH. This is the place where people either know or learn one or two things about typing.

Frankly I prefer to type with even one finger while using a lot of neurons, instead of doing the opposite as an unhelpful and rude person like you are used to.

But anyway, two days ago I voted for you as the biggest troll and now it's:

I noticed thanks, but even if that I still treated you as a good person that you clearly aren't, it's my main defect: too much hope in people

[Astounding]

So how come that you haven't made your own custom keyboard like I did  ? Should I blame you because likely you have no idea about soldering or measuring something ?

If you want respect start to give respect other people



Frankly I prefer to type with even one finger while using a lot of neurons, instead of doing the opposite as an unhelpful and rude person like you are used to.


I noticed thanks, but even if that I still treated you as a good person that you clearly aren't, it's my main defect: too much hope in people

How come every thread I read you're arguing with at least one person?

[The Solutor]

How come every thread I read you're arguing with at least one person?

 

Why you don't ask yourself how come that at least one person is arguing with me ?

BTW, maybe because Ripster's jokes about Italians are hitting just me and few other people while a single joke About Americans hits hundreds of people ?

Maybe because nowadays is unusual to find people like me, reasonably expert, or at least well informed, in many different areas ?

Maybe because I like to post what I think is right, instead of what I think is well accepted by the crowd ?

Maybe because, is statistically more frequent arguing with people when posting a lot ?

Maybe because I'm used to check what I post before posting, so it's hard to find something wrong on my posts (other than my "Queen's English" obviously ). And people that hardly fail looks unpleasant ?

BTW you are subscribed since 15 days and you are writing one of your 59 message with the only purpose of argue with me, so you should already have an answer...

[Larry Dallas]

I'm just getting on topic for a second here. Tohveli, if your cousin lives in Shanghai, she should have a Chinese bank account and address, so go to taobao.com. If you see something you want, let her buy it with her bank card and have them ship it to her address.

[herewegomez]

I thought, until about two months ago that everyone had typing class when they were in like 5th grade and I didn't think that "touch" typing was an actual specification.

I also had a pretty brutal hag of a typing teacher that would smack our hands if she caught us looking at the keys. I hated that class, but I'll be damned if I don't average 60 WPM and never look at my keys

[Tohveli]

Here in Finland we don't do that...would've loved to get some pointers and learn touch typing the proper way :/

[Astounding]

I thought, until about two months ago that everyone had typing class when they were in like 5th grade and I didn't think that "touch" typing was an actual specification.

I also had a pretty brutal hag of a typing teacher that would smack our hands if she caught us looking at the keys. I hated that class, but I'll be damned if I don't average 60 WPM and never look at my keys

Touch typing is overrated.

[keyboardlover]

People who can't do it usually say that.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yep. Touch typing sucks 100%.

[The Solutor]

People who can't do it usually say that.

 
Say that about anything they decided was not worth to learn.

But while if one is not able to swim, to drive a car, to use a pc or whatever there is no substitute,  lack of touch typing skill doesn't prevent anything, it's just a different technique to use a keyboard, nothing more, nothing less.

[Astounding]

Say that about anything they decided was not worth to learn.

But while if one is not able to swim, to drive a car, to use a pc or whatever there is no substitute,  lack of touch typing skill doesn't prevent anything, it's just a different technique to use a keyboard, nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly.

[herewegomez]

Say that about anything they decided was not worth to learn.

But while if one is not able to swim, to drive a car, to use a pc or whatever there is no substitute,  lack of touch typing skill doesn't prevent anything, it's just a different technique to use a keyboard, nothing more, nothing less.

well, efficient transcribing and copying is pretty damn hard to do if you have to look at your keys, I'd imagine

[The Solutor]

well, efficient transcribing and copying is pretty damn hard to do if you have to look at your keys, I'd imagine

 
This is more a matter of secretary.

Btw for touch typist usually is intended not just the ability to write w/o looking at the keys, but the correct placement of the then fingers and so on.

While there is a lot of people used to write, more or less, blindly w/o being a proper touch typist

[Astounding]

This is more a matter of secretary.

Btw for touch typist usually is intended not just the ability to write w/o looking at the keys, but the correct placement of the then fingers and so on.

While there is a lot of people used to write, more or less, blindly w/o being a proper touch typist

Nailed it.

[herewegomez]

Btw for touch typist usually is intended not just the ability to write w/o looking at the keys, but the correct placement of the then fingers and so on.

/QUOTE]

oh, i honestly didn't know that. I use the fingering that Mavis Beacon (type teaching program) taught me, so I assume that its correct

[Magna224]

Well I started on ANSI and went to ISO and back and forth regularly no problem. When I switched to the noppoo choc mini it took me a while to get used to it.

[ch_123]

Saying that not knowing how to type is an 'alternate way' of using a keyboard is a bit like saying that falling into water and flailing your arms around wildly is an 'alternate way' of swimming. It's not a conscious lifestyle choice, it just means you don't know how to do it properly. I mean, I never formally learned how to type, yet I can comfortably touch type at 80WPM+, just as consequence of using computers over the years in a regular manner. It really isn't that difficult.

But above all, there is the bizarre dichotomy of criticizing people for recommending or assuming touch typing skills on a forum where people blow large quantities of money on keyboards. It would be like someone going onto a racing bike forum and recommending that they affix stabilizer wheels onto the sides because learning how to balance yourself is over rated.

Maybe because nowadays is unusual to find people like me, reasonably expert, or at least well informed, in many different areas ?

 
Careful now, you're starting to talk like Ripster.

At least he pulls it off with an air of ambiguous irony.

[The Solutor]

Saying that not knowing how to type is an 'alternate way' of using a keyboard is a bit like saying that falling into water and flailing your arms around wildly is an 'alternate way' of swimming.

 
Don't try to twist my point. If you can't swim you die. If i don't know to touchtype i can just use computers like you (no offense, likely way better) w/o a single problem.

It's not a conscious lifestyle choice

Lifestyle ? We are talking about freaking keyboards. Life, even the tiny slice related to IT is a different thing.

I never formally learned how to type, yet I can comfortably touch type at 80WPM+, just as consequence of using computers over the years in a regular manner. It really isn't that difficult.

Where do you read that I'm slow, don't try to sell what you figure as facts.

But above all, there is the bizarre dichotomy of criticizing people for recommending or assuming touch typing skills

Again who said that ?

Learn whatever you want, my life is all about learning, I simply find learning to touchtype a pointless, boring and ineffective activity, but this is my opinion about my life.

Do whatever you want with your life but please avoid to criticize who doesn't share your vision.

on a forum where people blow large quantities of money on keyboards.

We all know (at least we should) that money  spent on keyboards has no relation with the keyboard quality, nor with the typing speed.

We all know also, that if you type at 80wpm with a model M you don't type at 800wpm with 10 model M, but here is plenty of people that owns even more keyboards.

So be honest ! Typing skill, here, has almost no meaning, the vast majority of GH users are collectors, passionate, fetichists, and so on.

If you buy a rolex, you know what time is it, exactly as the people that owns a swatch. The function is not the main purpose, and here is just the same.

It would be like someone going onto a racing bike

The "race" part is just in your head. Here we are speaking about keyboards, not even just mechanical ones, and people are interested in various aspects, i like comfort and moddability, you like IBMs and touch typing, he like just to do some business, they like the keyboard as object per se, and so on...

Really you need to start thinking that your own ideas, respectable ideas, ends to be respectable when you try to enforce it on the mind of people with different background, with different culture, with different skills, from different countries and so on.

Share your idea, but be humble enough to thing that is not necessarily the right one (here the right one doesn't even exist)