Author Topic: The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One  (Read 7614 times)

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Offline Brian

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:19:44 »
So here it is, the 10^6th "Which keyboard!?" post begins.

I've been researching keyboards for a little over a month now, but regrettably only found geekhack.org a couple of days ago. I've poured over the forums reading opinions and reviews, and have a pretty good idea of what I'd like. I have a perfect keyboard in mind, but it doesn't seem to exist.

I've narrowed my choices down to more or less a Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 Tenkeyless with Cherry MX Blues or a Razer Black Widow Ultimate or Standard. I'm about 90% sure I'll go for the Filco, as the only thing I don't like about it is the price. (After all, I can get the awesome-looking Black Widow Dragon Age II edition with red backlights for *less* than the tenkeyless Filco.)

There are several factors I've considered in searching for a keyboard, each with various importance to me. They are:

Tactile Bump - 80/100
I want to feel the exact moment the key actuates. I don't want to have to bottom out the key to do so.

Clicky - 50/100
I loved the sound of the older buckling spring keyboards from grade school, and would like to have it in a modern mechanical keyboard. However, most of my work will be done at my desk right next to my girlfriend and the sound might drive her crazy. If I can still have as "fun" a typing experience with a quieter switch type where my fingers still "fly" over the board, I'd consider quieter switches.

Actuation Force - 80/100
I want my fingers to be able to fly over the board. I have at least a thousand hours of development in front of me, and I'd like to be able to use the keyboard all day without finger strain. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to try out any of the mechanical keyboards I'm considering, but Cherry MX Blues should be fine at 50g actuation force, though if there was a way I could get them down to 30-40g, that would be superb.
(*I'm currently using a $12 Logitech K120 crapboard. Just for comparison, does anyone have the actuation force specs for that board?)

PS/2 - 60/100
I haven't researched it thoroughly, but I did read somewhere that PS/2 offers lower latency than USB thanks to it being closer to the pure hardware level, while USB requires CPU cycles to poll. I'm sure the difference in latency is barely noticeable if at all, but if I had two otherwise perfect keyboards and my only choice was USB vs. PS/2, I'd go for PS/2.

Tenkeyless - 60/100
I do use the numpad at times, but it's not a necessity. If it reduces the cost of the keyboard while simultaneously giving me more desk space, I'm all for it.

Standard Layout - 100/100
I don't want to adapt to using a board with a large Enter key, which moves the |\ elsewhere. The backslash especially is essential for development, and I don't want it someplace weird. Same thing goes for the arrow keys and the Insert/Delete/Home/End/PgUp/PgDown. Especially since I'm going to start using vim, I need these keys to be in the proper positions.

Key Lights - 10/100
I touch type expertly and don't need to see the keys, so for me key backlights would be purely aesthetic. Again if it was the only choice I had left I'd go for lights vs. no lights, but not if it meant requiring USB over PS/2, or if it increased the price of the board significantly.

Dedicated Media Keys - 30/100
For me, coding and music go hand-in-hand. The thing I liked most about my Microsoft Wireless Comfort Curve Keyboard 4000 were the dedicated media control keys - I used the "Next" key the most. However, I can use software to bind an unused key such as Scroll Lock to "Next," and another (Pause/Break?) to "Play/Pause," so dedicated keys built-in aren't entirely necessary. It's worth noting, however, that the media controls on Fn keys like the Razer Black Widow don't do anything for me - media controls should be quick to access and require only one finger.

The following things I'm not expecting, but my "perfect keyboard" would include them:

Slight Curve
I used a Microsoft Wireless Comfort Curve Keyboard 4000 for a few years, and even bought a second one so I could have one at work and at home. I loved the mild curve (but NOT split!) that the MS 4000 offered. I'm a bigger person and my arms meet the keyboard at wider angles, especially the right hand. Frankly though, I don't like the look of curved keyboards, and if I can find a straight one that won't give me RSI, I'll be happy.

Integrated Mouse
In high school I had a white Compaq laptop which had a trackpoint mouse nestled between the G and H keys, with mouse buttons below the space bar. For gaming and Photoshop this type of mouse is atrocious, but for when I'm coding it's a thing of beauty. I love not having to remove my right hand from the keyboard to use the mouse for quick things like moving windows around. Before I get into really heavy development, though, I want to try to become proficient in using vim for PHP development, so by then a mouse will be completely irrelevant.

Shifted F-key Row
This earns the Razer Black Widow a few points. For games, It's nice having the F1 key be directly above the W key. Since my primary purpose is programming, though, it's not extremely important.

The Verdict
In the end, I'm still probably going for the Filco. It seems that a lot of people like it, I like the design and layout, and I like that I can use it as PS/2. The price is a bit of a problem, but it's not outside of my budget, and I'm confident it will be worth it.

What I like most about the Ninja Majestouch-2 is that the key labels are actually on the front edge of the key facing you, so your fingers don't strike the labels directly, so they will never wear off. Not to mention, it gives the keyboard a much cleaner, utilitarian look.

If I wasn't going to be spending most of my time coding, I might consider the Black Widow more heavily. For now, though, I just want a reliable, well-built tool that is nothing more or less than exactly what I need.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:52:10 by Brian »

Offline alaricljs

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:46:14 »
Just to be clear, the key labels on the front is the 'Ninja' model.  Majestouch-2's are available in Ninja, Otaku and normal :)
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
Ducky 1087XM PCB+Plate, w/ Matias "Quiet Click" spring-swapped w/ XM Greens

Offline Brian

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:50:31 »
Ahh I see, doesn't say Ninja in the title, it's in the description.

Offline Brian

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:51:34 »
Actually It does say it in the title. I'm both blind and retarded. :-P

Offline Astounding

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:54:22 »
Don't foget the Ducky 1087.  Everyone I talk to says the feel is comparable to the filco and its half the price, with bonus accessories.

http://global.pchome.com.tw/?mod=item&func=exhibit&IT_NO=DCAH0X-A50117800&SR_NO=DCAH0X&ROWNO=20&tm=u

Offline theferenc

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 17:57:57 »
So, maybe a silly question, but have you considered an IBM? Some people claim they are too heavy, but as someone who programs on them day in, day out, I've never experienced anything remotely resembling finger strain.

Get yourself a 1397000, and you have lots of extra keys to dedicate to one touch controls. You would have to modify it a bit first, though -- I can help with that.

If you definitely want a cherry switch keyboard, also take a look at the Das and the Deck Ice or Frost Tactile models. Both Decks come with Cherry clears, and you can get the Das in blue. The Deck is also switchable between PS/2 and USB, no dongle required (but you do need a screwdriver).

You can't really go wrong with a Filco, though. People tend to be very happy with them. I still prefer my buckling springs though, especially when coding.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline Brian

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:05:13 »
That 1397000 actually looks *extremely* awesome. I especially like the home key in the center of the arrows. While it would take a bit of getting used to, I know I would use it a ton as Home is one of my most used keys while coding.

I would definitely love the sound (even though my girlfriend wouldn't), and the only issue I have with the buckling springs is the actuation force. If I recall, though, I could fly pretty well on keyboards like that back in the day.

That one also puts the backslash on the home row which might be even better than its current position in the standard layout. I have to wonder if IBM developed a time machine for the sole purpose of designing the perfect keyboard for the future developer :-P

Offline Astounding

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:06:03 »
Quote from: theferenc;373350
So, maybe a silly question, but have you considered an IBM? Some people claim they are too heavy, but as someone who programs on them day in, day out, I've never experienced anything remotely resembling finger strain.

Get yourself a 1397000, and you have lots of extra keys to dedicate to one touch controls. You would have to modify it a bit first, though -- I can help with that.

If you definitely want a cherry switch keyboard, also take a look at the Das and the Deck Ice or Frost Tactile models. Both Decks come with Cherry clears, and you can get the Das in blue. The Deck is also switchable between PS/2 and USB, no dongle required (but you do need a screwdriver).

You can't really go wrong with a Filco, though. People tend to be very happy with them. I still prefer my buckling springs though, especially when coding.


Also worth mentioning is that I talked to Diatec today and they said another month or more on the ninja with blues.  Das doesn't come in TKL and is glossy.  The decks could be decent but OP didn't seem interested in backlighting.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:19:38 by Astounding »

Offline theferenc

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:08:27 »
Brian, if you're interested in that board, there are some available on ebay, though I'm not sure of the condition.

Also, you can order a new one from Unicomp. If you ask nicely, and pay another $10-15 or so, you can get one with native USB, and possibly standard QWERTY layout. It isn't hard to change the layout on an IBM though, and then just remap via software. It's what I do on all of mine.

I'm actually in the process of doing exactly that on a new old stock 1397000 that I picked up a while back. Shoot me a PM if you're interested in discussing it. I can also help with the registry remaps, but not with the AHK scripts, as I don't use that.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:10:53 by theferenc »
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline Brian

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« Reply #9 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:11:36 »
If I could get a couple of them for a decent price I might experiment with them - definitely paint the bezel so it matches my otherwise all black peripherals. I'd consider painting the key caps too, but I have a feeling that would be a bad idea.

Offline theferenc

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:13:42 »
No painting keycaps, but you can easily dye them. They are $26/piece or so on that ebay link I sent you. Not a bad price, really. And you can get new springs if those are worn out.

I think there's a specific type of spray paint that works well on the IBM cases. It's in the mods section somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline aggiejy

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:15:46 »
I think you're on the right track.  You'd be pretty happy with the Filco.

I'm a developer as well, and my daily typer is a Leopold ten keyless with blues, which is very similar. (and a tad cheaper if you can find one)  I've also got a dasKeyboard with browns which I'm typing on now.  It's certainly quiter than the blues, but only the actual clicking sound.  I believe most people bottom out on either, and that's the majority of the sound.  (Which you can address with dampening pads if you wish... doesn't bother me.)

I don't think you'll miss the numpad.  I actually weened myself into the tenkeyless world with the Apple bluetooth keyboard... haven't looked back.  I did buy this thing for the occasional times I'm doing something number heavy.  (Not programming... more like spreadsheets)

People seem to talk quite a bit about Cherry MX reds lately too.  Light acutation, linear, etc.  Doesn't sound like what you want I guess, but it's an option too.  (Harder to find though.)  

If you do decide on a ninja ten keyless, you may want to checkout the threads by qtan5370 in group buys.  He's doing an order in China and mailing to the US for a reasonable rate.  Deadline is tomorrow I think.  He has that for $149 + ~15 shipping.  (unless it's on amazon from the keyboard company, but I only see the brown switches.)

Offline Brian

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:20:39 »
Thanks for the tips aggiejy. theferenc really piqued my interest with that IBM, although it looks like it might take a considerable amount of work to get it the way I want it, while if I can find a Filco Ninja with blues (I didn't realize the one on Amazon is browns, thank you for pointing that out) it'll work for me pretty much out of the box (albeit at four times the cost).

Money talks, though, so it might actually be the best idea to nab one of those IBM's and see how I like it. And if I do, get another as a backup and start hacking one apart to get it the way I want it. It might be an interesting experiment, which I'd be sure to catalog and post on here :)

Offline theferenc

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:25:50 »
For reference, it takes me about 2 hours or so to modify the layout to what I want. No extra springs needed, but a few other parts are necessary (white stabilizer plugs, a new left shift, a new enter key). I'm pretty sure I have all of those though, and if I don't, Unicomp certainly does, so they aren't hard to find, and cost only a few dollars, total.

The first time took me about 3 hours or so. You just have to pay attention to details. JPC's guide in the mods section helped enormously.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline aggiejy

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:28:13 »
Yes, please do catalog... always fun to watch.

I too have some fondness of the IBM's from 5th grade.  I tried one on loan recently that I was going to buy from a friend... the sound was just too "boooiinnngggg" for me. :)

This may not matter to you, but one other thing of note is that going with the Cherry MX switches opens up your future world to keycap mania.  (Not that you *can't* get caps for other boards, just not as popular.)  For instance, a recent group buy just happened where we placed a very large order for caps from a plastics company.  (Doubleshots too... so the letters are actually injected separately... can't wear off.)  You can see (incomplete) pictures of caps as they are coming in here or in the wiki.  Anyway, it's a bit of fun. :)  I've seen some saweeet configs with filcos.

Offline Brian

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« Reply #15 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:33:03 »
Those custom key caps are very awesome - I never even thought that would be an option. That may earn points again for the Filco :)

Offline theferenc

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:35:30 »
There are definitely advantages to the Cherry based keyboards. Lots of fun to be had, for sure. I do admit to being a wee bit jealous about the lack of similar options for IBM keyboards.

Then again, PBT dye subbed keys last FOREVER. I picked up a keyboard that was possibly the most disgustingly dirty thing I've ever had in my home. After I soaked the keys for a day or so in denture cleanure, they looked nearly new. A quick scrub with a nylon brush and they were sparkly clean and new looking. Even still pebbled nicely.

Anyway, none of the options you've mentioned so far are bad. You can't really go wrong with any of them. I still recommend the IBM though...but that's my personal preference. Oh, and once you bolt mod it to change the layout, the ping is almost entirely gone. And if it's still too much, just stick some floss in the springs. Totally reversible, and totally easy to do. See dental floss mod.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline Chobopants

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« Reply #17 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:36:57 »
I think you're definitely on the right track but FYI blues are quite loud and the high pitched click sound can easily get on peoples' nerves (I even annoy myself once in a while when using blues).
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline Brian

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« Reply #18 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:40:34 »
I think I'll try to look around the local area over the next week and see if I can find any old IBM's. I'm sure they're the kind of thing people would just give away for free. I curse myself for not scavenging more when I was in high school. I used to help out at the local Boy's and Girl's Club, and being the town "computer geek" they gave me free reign of all their old i386/486's and associated peripherals (and they had a LOT of them). At the time, though, I couldn't have forseen wanting those very same keyboards ten years later.

If I find a treasure trove I'll be sure to let the community know, and I'd be happy to send out whatever ones I don't want for just the cost of shipping and packaging. Consider it a donation program :-P

Offline N8N

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« Reply #19 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:47:07 »
Quote from: Brian;373396
At the time, though, I couldn't have forseen wanting those very same keyboards ten years later.


Indeed... once upon a time, didn't you actually think that next year's model would be *better* than last year's?  'course the same thing happened with American cars around 1972 :/
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline Chobopants

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« Reply #20 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:47:49 »
Quote from: Brian;373396
I think I'll try to look around the local area over the next week and see if I can find any old IBM's. I'm sure they're the kind of thing people would just give away for free. I curse myself for not scavenging more when I was in high school. I used to help out at the local Boy's and Girl's Club, and being the town "computer geek" they gave me free reign of all their old i386/486's and associated peripherals (and they had a LOT of them). At the time, though, I couldn't have forseen wanting those very same keyboards ten years later.

If I find a treasure trove I'll be sure to let the community know, and I'd be happy to send out whatever ones I don't want for just the cost of shipping and packaging. Consider it a donation program :-P

If you run across an extra M I'd love if you pinged me, I'm very interested!
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline Brian

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« Reply #21 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 18:51:12 »
The story of my life. Had a friend say to me the other day that he bought an Atrix 4G. Now I haven't read reviews or even seen the phone's specs, and have no clue if it's good or not. That's not the point, HE didn't research it either. He said "I figured I'd go out on a limb and spend the most for the best thing now so it's not obsolete in six months."

I literally face palmed. And then told him that "the best thing" is always obsolete tomorrow. Today. Hell, a year ago in Japan. And just because it's new and costs a lot doesn't mean it's good. In fact, there's a good chance it's a piece of crap and is just a marketing gimmick *AAACHH*apple*ooo* ('scuse me.)

I like things to be simple, rugged, and no more or less than exactly what they need to be. I'd rather spend a *lot* less on something that was high quality three years ago, and is still high quality today, than something that's shiny, new, expensive, and full of features that even *I* wouldn't use. But I guess I'm a minimalist, and not everyone shares my opinion.

Offline noodles256

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« Reply #22 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:05:32 »
wlcm 2 gh
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline aggiejy

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« Reply #23 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:16:49 »
Quote from: Brian;373396
... I curse myself for not scavenging more when I was in high school. I used to help out at the local Boy's and Girl's Club, and being the town "computer geek" they gave me free reign of all their old i386/486's and associated peripherals...

Ha, I actually bought bought 20 old IBMs at auction from my school for $99 in 1996.  They were worthless old things, no hard drives, etc.  But... Model M Spacesavers with each one of them.  I sold and gave them all away sadly.  If I only knew... :)

As for sounds though, Ripster did recordings with same mic/setup of a few boards.  If you haven't listened, check it out.  (Lots on Youtube, but not as usefull if not done in the same environment.)  But like theferenc said, you can always mod sounds to your liking.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #24 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:29:08 »
Quote
I want to feel the exact moment the key actuates. I don't want to have to bottom out the key to do so.

Clicky - 50/100
 I loved the sound of the older buckling spring keyboards from grade school, and would like to have it in a modern mechanical keyboard. However, most of my work will be done at my desk right next to my girlfriend and the sound might drive her crazy. If I can still have as "fun" a typing experience with a quieter switch type where my fingers still "fly" over the board, I'd consider quieter switches.


Those two options are a little mutually exclusive, as one of the few  key that actuates exactly at the same moment of the click and related tactile feedback is the one from buckling springs from IBM or unicomp that are loud, other switch types have more or less delay between the three events, matter of milliseconds but somewhat preceivable depending on the switch type.

The worst cherry MX in that matter is the blue one.

Quote
(*I'm currently using a $12 Logitech K120 crapboard. Just for comparison, does anyone have the actuation force specs for that board?)


Ok, the second person who really tried this keyboard. You should really post your opinion here.
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline theferenc

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« Reply #25 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:34:03 »
Quote from: Brian;373405
I like things to be simple, rugged, and no more or less than exactly what they need to be. I'd rather spend a *lot* less on something that was high quality three years ago, and is still high quality today, than something that's shiny, new, expensive, and full of features that even *I* wouldn't use. But I guess I'm a minimalist, and not everyone shares my opinion.

There's a reason I have Model M keyboards and a Nokia E72 as a cell phone. Simple, rugged, and almost exactly what I would want or need in either.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline Brian

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« Reply #26 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:50:45 »
I read through most of that Logitech flaming troll-fest before I registered. It almost scared me away from geekhack :-P

On the one hand, the guy's from the UK and mentions something about Newspaper style headlines, so maybe he's a journalist and his apparent superiority complex may have been an accident...

But on the other hand, you'd have to be pretty thick to think some of the things in his original post wouldn't offend people. I'm not a trollologist, but I'm throwing my stock in with the "Yeah, he was trolling." crowd :-P

On the Logitech K120, I can't say it's the worst board I've ever used. I mean... all the keys work. And there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I'd say for keyboards available under $15 USD it's probably near top of the line. But it's still a far cry from my beloved Microsoft Wireless Comfort Curve Keyboard 4000, and I wouldn't know how to compare it to mechanical boards because I haven't tried any modern ones, but I'd guess that it's immensely inferior. (Not to mention my wrist did hurt a bunch after writing an 11 page document on this thing.)

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #27 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:55:20 »
I haven't tried this board, so I haven't an opinion, btw I tried briefly a k300 and I was unimpressed, but some boards like the logitech illuminated or k800 are just awesome.
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline Brian

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« Reply #28 on: Mon, 04 July 2011, 19:57:02 »
I have no doubt. I'm not about to start arguing about keyboards I've never tried :-P

Offline sordna

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« Reply #29 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 02:24:46 »
A cheaper alternative to a tenkeyless Filco is a PLU ML-87. I hear it's very close in quality, and half the price.

However I found my "unicorn" keyboard for work long time ago, and no keyboard has beat it for me: The Kinesis Advantage.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Astounding

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« Reply #30 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 21:58:21 »
Quote from: sordna;373570
A cheaper alternative to a tenkeyless Filco is a PLU ML-87. I hear it's very close in quality, and half the price.

However I found my "unicorn" keyboard for work long time ago, and no keyboard has beat it for me: The Kinesis Advantage.

The PLU ML-87 is comparable to a Filco TKL? How does it compare to the Ducky 1087, its closest competitor in price.

Offline reaper

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« Reply #31 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 23:02:57 »
Well, I currently have both a Ducky 1087 and a PLU ML-87 and in my experience, PLU ML is a better board in terms of quality.  The Ducky I have may have come from earlier batch which suffers from bad QC.  I'll see if I can dig up a picture of the USB connector on the back of the board so you guys can see what I'm talking about.  Also I heard that they (Ducky) have improved on the 1087 since then.
Att fly är livet, att dröja, döden.
Din Eli

Offline Astounding

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 23:22:33 »
Quote from: reaper~;374287
Well, I currently have both a Ducky 1087 and a PLU ML-87 and in my experience, PLU ML is a better board in terms of quality.  The Ducky I have may have come from earlier batch which suffers from bad QC.  I'll see if I can dig up a picture of the USB connector on the back of the board so you guys can see what I'm talking about.  Also I heard that they (Ducky) have improved on the 1087 since then.


How does the typing feel compare?  Is there a better place to pick these up than ebay? They're about 118 there, putting them dangerously close to Leopold tkl territory.

Offline reaper

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« Reply #33 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 23:27:31 »
Pretty comparable between the two.  The main thing I like about Ducky 1087 is its unique mixed switches (both brown and blue on the same board).  Not that it's noticeable but it's the only one I've seen so far.
Att fly är livet, att dröja, döden.
Din Eli

Offline sordna

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The Unicorn Keyboard Chase: Day One
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 05 July 2011, 23:56:52 »
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline reaper

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« Reply #35 on: Wed, 06 July 2011, 00:30:17 »
Quote from: Astounding;374297
Is there a better place to pick these up than ebay? They're about 118 there, putting them dangerously close to Leopold tkl territory.

Check your pm.
 
Quote from: sordna;374312
@reaper: thanks for providing comparison info!

You're welcome. =)
Att fly är livet, att dröja, döden.
Din Eli