Author Topic: Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?  (Read 2333 times)

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Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 07:37:04 »
Firstly, greetings fellow obsessives! And a big thank you to the site admin who allowed long forum names. I've wanted to use this name for years... But on to keyboardy things - and thank you in advance for your help.

I'm looking for a Linux compatible compact keyboard for typing (not gaming) with soft switches - so Cherry Browns?

Features I'm concerned with:

ESSENTIAL: Compact kb but full size keys
Re compactness, I want it to have full size keys - and spacing - but I don't want the number pad. I want a nice easy reach to my trackball.

NICE: Cursor keys
Ideally I do want cursor keys, so the HHKB is semi-out. The layout of the Topre 86U would be fine, but I'd like to try something cheaper. (Plus I'm in the UK and they seem to be sold out here, and I'm not sure that I'd the feel of the switch as every stroke has to be bottomed out???) But the Nopoo Choc MIni layout would be ok as well... but I'd prefer the 86U layout.


DON'T CARE: Function keys

I don't care if it has them or not! I never use them but they're not in the way.

ESSENTIAL: Linux compatibility

This is the biggy. Can I assume it or not?

ESSENTIAL: Soft touch typing

Cherry Browns (sounds like a female Jazz singer) would be best? Is the feel lighter than the Topres, because unlike the T's they don't have to be bottomed out on every stroke?

BONUSES: Nice extras

I slightly prefer light coloured kbs to darker. And effective backlighting would be fun if I could turn it on and off.

Models I'm looking at
The Choc Mini - its black only and I'm a little worried about key legibility. Could I change the keycaps for a reasonable cost if this was a problem? And the keys and spacing are full size, yes?

PLU87 - comes in lighter perhaps more legible colours, but what about linux compatibility? And, again, are the keys and spacing are full size?

???Anything with the layout of the 86U??? Other suggestions?

Anyway - thanks for reading!

Offline cactux

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 07:40:08 »
What is your definition of linux compatible? Any linux distro will be able to recognize any mechanical keyboard.86U is much bigger than HHKB so is not a compact board. Take a look at the KBC poker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTsPDgQpj98
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 07:44:19 by cactux »
[FS]☠ The temple lol ->HERE<-

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 08:10:31 »
What is your definition of linux compatible? Any linux distro will be able to recognize any mechanical keyboard.

Well, that's that answered! I didn't think there would be a problem until I saw that some kbs won't work with Apple. And that some gaming keyboards that can handle multiple simultaneous key-presses won't work unless you turn this feature off.... so I suppose if that a kb had this feature on always then it wouldn't be linux compatible???

86U is much bigger than HHKB so is not a compact board.
To be very clear, I'm looking for a kb the width of an 86u or narrower. 37cm would be my upper width limit. Perhaps the terminology would be "tenkeyless or compact"??

You have a Realforce??? I'd be interested in knowing what the feel is like - does every press have to bottom out to register?

Offline N8N

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 08:17:59 »
just FYI I have a Cherry G80-8200 (the POS board w/ the card swiper) and it is supposedly NKRO although only six will register with my USB converter.  It in fact appears to function correctly on my laptop running Ubuntu 10.04.  I can't say that it works 100% but I haven't found a failure yet.  (other than my pause/break doesn't work correctly, but I think that that is my converter, not the keyboard, because it doesn't work on all my keyboards.  It's a ZioTek, not the Belkin one - I bought it before I found this forum because it was the one recommended by clickykeyboards.)
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 08:29:38 »
POS... Ah. You mean "Point of sale" rather than "Not very good."

Re. the problem with anti-ghosting kbs and Ubuntu (I'd suspect all Linuxes):

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1458826

- But I doubt this kb was mechanical. Does that make a difference?

Offline N8N

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 08:58:35 »
yes, Point of Sale, although if you'd seen it when it showed up either would apply.  (it was working, but I've never seen so much chow in a single keyboard before...  but the clears are fantastic and it was $30 shipped, so who can complain?)

Can't answer your question because a) I don't game seriously, so I haven't spent much time researching gaming keyboards; this is the only keyboard that I have that is NKRO.  (two months ago, I couldn't have told you what NKRO meant.)  I'm kinda old school; been using Model Ms pretty exclusively for a few years.  No problems with them on Ubuntu (various distros.)  b) I'm a n00b to this whole taking keyboard obsession seriously thing, so wait for a response from someone with more of a clue.

Would a Filco or Leopold tenkeyless meet your criteria?  They seem to be well regarded here; I haven't tried either (my experience with keyboards is pretty much used 'n' cheap stuff; I've been trying different ones to see which keys I like best before spending Real Money on something) but I would assume with the number of GHers that have them if there were issues with using them with Linux that they would have been documented already.  I'm far from an expert but those are the first two that I think I would recommend to you, ASSuming that you like the switches that they use (Leopold offers choice of Cherry MX brown, blue, and black; Filco I believe offers the same choices and also there's some floating around with reds.)

If you like  a "light touch" try out a board with browns if you can.  I bought a cheap Compaq MX11802 off "a certain auction site" just so that I could try out the browns.  It's a funky layout so you probably don't want to use it for real, but you can pick them up cheaply enough that it's worth it (in my opinion) to try it to see if you like the switches.  Better than spending $150 or more on a new keyboard and then realizing that you should have bought something else IMHO.  There's so many different choices in mechanical switches and they all feel markedly different if you are paying attention.  I'm assuming also that since you said "for typing" that you are interested in only either "tactile" or "tactile clicky" switches.  Some people claim to prefer linear switches (black or red) for typing, although I don't understand those people.  I'm typing this on clears (basically stiffer browns with more tactility) and if anything I wish they were *more* tactile if that is even possible...  However the more I type on this thing the more I like it and I'm slowly coming around to the POV that I might actually like the clears *better* than my Model M's (is that heresy?) and most importantly they are quiet; so I can use this board at work and not annoy my coworkers too much.  (granted, it is still louder than a RD keyboard unless you pound the crap out of the RDs, but it's nowhere near as loud as the racket you get from getting a good roll going on a Model M.)

start with some of Ripster's wikis and set aside a couple hours to read through everything, then you can see where you need to start.  The type of switch makes *so* much difference in the feel of a keyboard; it sounds weird, but when you find the one that is right for your typing style, you'll wonder how you ever managed to type on anything else.  (of course, when you have to work on someone else's PC and they have some crap $3 thing that came with it hooked up to it, then you'll get all snobbish about it...  but I guess that's the price you have to pay.)
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 09:05:43 »
For anyone googling this thread in future, the most relevant previous thread seems to be:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?17439-Advice-Small-tactile-programming-admin-keyboard.-G84-4100

And like N8N says, read Ripster's wikis - although these just seem to confirm the decision I've already made to look for a kb with Browns. The thread above shows why (imo) the capacitative Topre switch is less suitable for a light typing experience than a Brown, and I think this thread makes the case for the Browns over Alps Blacks:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?6952-Cherry-browns-vs-black-alps
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 09:35:54 by TheGreatAmphibianPling »

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 09:38:09 »
@N8N: The Filco is an excellent suggestion. I can buy it in the UK, so cheaper shipping makes up for most of the price difference with the other Choc Mini and PLU, and Filco's quality should be more reliable. Thank you!

Plus as I'm in the UK and buying by mail I get a week long return period to try the board.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 09:41:46 by TheGreatAmphibianPling »

Offline N8N

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 10:15:46 »
I find the tactile point of the Alps switches is much higher than that of the MX.  I prefer the tactile point about halfway down, and the clears have the most distinct tactile point.  Unfortunately (for you) I don't think anyone makes a tenkeyless with clears, and also if you have a "light touch" the springs are very stiff.  So you probably will prefer the browns (but like I said, if there's any way you could try before you buy, that would be best.)
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 July 2011, 10:19:46 by N8N »
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline theferenc

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 10:23:40 »
Just for reference, you don't have to bottom out the Topre switches to actuate the key. As soon as the dome collapses (tactile point), it actuates. There's a good 2mm of travel left, at least.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 11:14:36 »
Thanks N8N, theferenc: that confirms my logic that the Brown is at least as good a better as the Alps or Topres, but is much easier/cheaper to try.

Btw theferenc, I have one of "those" cats too - a tabby and white patchy type of guy. A very large one, actually, that has a habit of sitting on my keyboards...

Offline theferenc

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 11:20:39 »
Yeah, he LOVES my buckling springs, more than any other type. He's also about 20 pounds, though he should only be about 17-18. I often come home to see him snoring away, completely covering my 122 key terminal emulator. You know, the aircraft carriers? It just disappears under him.

And, it's hard to go wrong with brown as a first choice. While I find them too light, others love them, and they are almost the definition of average. You can easily determine what, if anything, is lacking, and move to the appropriate switch.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 12:46:35 »
The thing about boards not working on osx somehow only applies to macs. Does not apply to linux even though they are unix.

I started with a tactile and clicky mech, and that's in general what I've always liked.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline theferenc

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 12:50:48 »
Yeah, it's an apple developed driver that is the problem. The NKRO via USB often uses the trick of showing up as multiple keyboards. OS X doesn't like this. At all.

The BSDs and Linux use a different driver, so it isn't an issue.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 13:07:30 »
Quote from: theferenc;377483
Yeah, he LOVES my buckling springs, more than any other type. He's also about 20 pounds, though he should only be about 17-18. I often come home to see him snoring away, completely covering my 122 key terminal emulator.


Sounds like about the same size as mine. When I take him to the vets they squabble over who is going to have privilege of treating the novelty sized cat. And his shoulders are like a bull dogs.

I wish he wasn't so fascinated by new 100% passively cooled Shuttle XS35 Atom + Ion. I suspect that the faint breath of warm air from the video cassette sized box has him wondering if there is a rodent inside.

Quote

And, it's hard to go wrong with brown as a first choice. While I find them too light, others love them, and they are almost the definition of average. You can easily determine what, if anything, is lacking, and move to the appropriate switch.


Sounds reasonable. Next stop: trackballs...

Offline N8N

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 14:14:41 »
cat-like typing detected?

http://www.bitboost.com/pawsense/

My roommate's cat hasn't discovered the joys of sleeping on keyboards yet, but he *does* seem to want to cuddle with me around 3AM.  Which is the only time he ever wants anything to do with me.  He's a little fuzzy orange retard, but a cute one.

/sorry for the threadjack
Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline theferenc

  • Posts: 1327
Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 10 July 2011, 14:20:01 »
"You can also exit this window by typing the word 'human'"

Love it.
HHKB Pro 2 -- Custom UNIX layout Unicomp Customizer 101 -- IBM Model M 1391401 (modded to UNIX layout) -- IBM 1397000 (also UNIX layout) -- SSK in UNIX layout -- Model F 122 key in UNIX layout (Soarer USB "native")
 
CST L-TracX trackball -- Kensington Expert Mouse trackball

Offline TheGreatAmphibianPling

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Linux compatible compact with a soft touch?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 12 July 2011, 17:36:39 »
For anyone googling this thread in future times: I ordered a Filco Tenless Cherry Brown from the Keyboard Company yesterday at 4.40pm. It arrived this morning before I started work (I *am* in the UK, but that's still fast.) And it is exactly what I wanted. My hands are completely unstressed after using it all day, and at the same time it seems impossible to miss registering a keypress.