Qpad MK-80 v DAS

[Merlin]

Hello :smile:

Can anyone tell me if the feel and sound of the Qpad MK-80 cherry blue switch will be as nice as the DAS Pro? I love the look of the DAS and the sound of the keys (from videos I've seen) and I know it's
amongst the best in the world alongside filco and deck. But I've never had a mechanical and I do need backlit. I wonder if anyone who has tried the Qpad could say if the typing experience is nice on it?

[The Solutor]

The sound of Qad and Xarmor is likely the best part of those keyboards

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19423&highlight=clash

[Merlin]

The sound of Qad and Xarmor is likely the best part of those keyboards

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:19423&highlight=clash

Nice review. But how is the physical typing experience, is it enjoyable and about the same as the DAS? The DAS (and the filco) are the reference keyboards by which to judge all other mechanicals aren't they?

[The Solutor]

Never touched a DAS but surely the typing experience is on par, if not better, with a filco.

Take in account a slightly more wobbling large keys, especially on the blue boards, btw the different stabilizers, unlike on flicos are never squeaking or rattling, and the keyboard is absolutely ring free. Other than that is matter of preferences.

BTW tomorrow i should have a Filco in my hands so I can post a couple of samples recorded side by side, with the same equipment.

[Merlin]

Never touched a DAS but surely the typing experience is on par, if not better, with a filco.

Take in account a slightly more wobbling large keys, especially on the blue boards, btw the different stabilizers, unlike on flicos are never squeaking or rattling, and the keyboard is absolutely ring free. Other than that is matter of preferences.

BTW tomorrow i should have a Filco in my hands so I can post a couple of samples recorded side by side, with the same equipment.

 
Great. When you get your filco, please do record nice samples of both that and the filco, and let me know if you enjoy typing as much on both.

[The Solutor]

Ok, got the Filco.

It feels different for a number of reasons.

#1 that Filco is not ringing but definitely has a sorta of echo that is completely absent on the Qpad and Xarmor boards, also picking on the back of the filco is like picking on the back of a guitar

#2 the keycap's plastics and shape make also the difference: The filco keycaps are sharp while the qpad ones are rounded, the filco keycaps surface is "silky" while the qpad one are "rubbery". this lead to a different typing experience. With the filco keycaps (no matter if placed on filco or on qpad) all feels crispier, while the qpad keycaps feels smoother.

Really hard to say what is better, they are just different.

#3 the large keys are slightly wobblier on Qpad, the space bar is wobblier on filco board

All the other differences, are evident looking to the photos.

All in all is hard to say what board is more pleasant to type on, surely the price of the Qpad board is better related to the board quality, the filcos should cost something like 90€ to reflect the lack of additional features that are present on qpad.

I'll upload a couple of samples later.

[Merlin]

Thanks Solutor for your comparisons. I just received a replacement brand new Lycosa in the last hour as the touchpad backlight on my first one was flickering on and off . Haven't opened it yet but it says on the box 'improved keystroke mechanism'. I never felt there was anything wrong with the feel of my last lycosa's keys, so it should be interesting to see if I notice any difference. I do enjoy the ease of pressing the low profile keys of the lycosa, even if it is rubber dome, but I might still buy a second keyboard, the Qpad, as I really want to experience what a mechanical feels like. There's no shops here to try any. I don't like normal height keys after using the lycosa for a year, but I'm wondering if it's more enjoyable on a mechanical keyboard. So that's really why I've been wondering if the Qpad will be satisfying to type on, in particular, compared to the best on the market, DAS and Filco.

[The Solutor]

So tat's really why I've been wondering if the Qpad will be satisfying to type on, in particular, compared to the best on the market, DAS and filco.

Best known/more hyped products hardly are the best..

The only exception to this rule is, likely, Logitech.

There's an unwritten rule that tells "never buy the cheapest product, never buy the most expensive/most hyped product and you will be happy.

Still fits perfectly here

[Merlin]

Good points.
I can get the Qpad here and with free shipping:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=KB-000-XM&groupid=702&catid=23&subcat=

I'll be interested to see if I enjoy mechanical as much or more than flat/scissor switches. I also won't ever buy a razer black widow, it's fugly because it's cluttered, and the symbols are not backlit which is ridiculous for a backlit keyboard. And I'm aware that people have had space bar issues where it presses adjacent keys down. Great! I'm only staying with my razer lycosa because it's beautiful looking and I like the keys.

How is the backlighting on the Qpad, is it very even? My lycosa suffered from uneven backlighting where symbols like *$£ were barely visible or only half lit. Hoping the replacement will be better but I doubt it.

[The Solutor]

Good points.
 I can get the Qpad here and with free shipping:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...tid=23&subcat=

I got mine there

I'll be interested to see if I enjoy mechanical as much or more than flat/scissor switches.

Some scissors are really good, it's just matter of preference and habits

I'll be interested to see if I enjoy mechanical as much or more than flat/scissor switches. I also won't ever buy a razer black widow, it's fugly because it's cluttered, and the symbols are not backlit which is ridiculous for a backlit keyboard.

Indeed. Also the sound of BW is way more metallic and unpleasant than both Qpad and Filcos.

How is the backlighting on the Qpad, is it very even?

Yes is very even, only the symbols on the lower part of the keys (the one meant to be accessed with ALT GRAPH) are dim, but this is unavoidable due to the switch construction.

[Merlin]

Solutor, please check out this video if you get a chance, from 06:50 to about 09:30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oxX07ERyBw

This guy has a non backlit xarmour, except for the backlit num lock, scroll lock, capslock. But of course Qpad is the same keyboard. He has two complaints. That it feels a bit cheap because of certain keys that rock around as they don't have stabilisers, and that when the num lock is on, the caps lock next to it looks like it's on as well. I since checked a Qpad MK-80 video and it does the same thing. Kinda puts me off a little.

[The Solutor]

This guy has a non backlit xarmour, except for the backlit num lock, scroll lock, capslock. But of course Qpad is the same keyboard. He has two complaints. That it feels a bit cheap because of certain keys that rock around as they don't have stabilisers

#1 that keyboard is a preproduction/first batch model, you can spot it easily (dot on spacebar)

#2 all the large keys have a stabilizer it's just different from the filco ones Qpad is better on spacebar, filco on large keys

#3 there's very little bleeding light between the three indicator.

Btw i recorded a couple of samples from both keyboard (both are blue) both are recorded with the same equipement with the mic placed at the same distance

[HaiiYaa]

Best known/more hyped products hardly are the best..

The only exception to this rule is, likely, Logitech.

There's an unwritten rule that tells "never buy the cheapest product, never buy the most expensive/most hyped product and you will be happy.

Still fits perfectly here

so thats your reason for all the hate against filco? Because more people know it?

I have yet to try a keyboard that matches the quality of the filco yet, not even the leopold and das came close.

[The Solutor]

so thats your reason for all the hate against filco? Because more people know it?

I appreciate the object well known because some real merits, and the ones sold at the correct price

I have yet to try a keyboard that matches the quality of the filco yet

What I learned in those few months is thay you have an odd definition of quality, now I have just to understand if "you" = geekchackers, or "you" = Americans

[Merlin]

Thanks for the soundbites Solutor! I must say, they're incredibly similar sounding. I like them both. Really like the clicky sound of cherry blues.

I'm not too worried about the wobbly keys, and maybe the Qpad has improved on it? There's no wobble on my ever so cheap old trust keyboard. But at £100 for a mechanical keyboard which is meant to be superior build quality to rubber dome, I would have expected there would definitely not be basic issues like that, but it's not a deal breaker.
The backlit bleed is not a deal breaker either on reflection. But pre-production xarmor or not, the Qpad has exactly the same bleed. Can be seen from 05:34 of this swedish video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A8oZWsRp9o

[HaiiYaa]

I appreciate the object well known because some real merits, and the ones sold at the correct price




What I learned in those few months is thay you have an odd definition of quality, now I have just to understand if "you" = geekchackers, or "you" = Americans

Me = european

I'm just glad I didn't listen to you and got a filco

[The Solutor]

Thanks for the soundbites Solutor! I must say, they're incredibly similar sounding. I like them both. Really like the clicky sound of cherry blues.

Wll, is very hard to show the subtle differences between the two. Filco is louder and more definite Qpad is more soft, more dampened.

And in the samples the echoing sound (made mainly by the spacebar on my board) clearly audible in person is almost completely missing in the recorded sample.

I'm not too worried about the wobbly keys, and maybe the Qpad has improved on it?

As I wrote in my review my qpad as the large keys wobblier than my xarmor (was brown, now is ergoclear) and not too different by the ones of BW (that use the same stabilizers). My guess is that bkue switches have a part in the large key stability.

BTW analyzing the dismantled BW i noticed that part of the wobbliness is due to the hinges that are sliding slightly inside the plate's holes and a drop of superglue greatly reduces the wobbliness.

There's no wobble on my ever so cheap old trust keyboard. But at £100 for a mechanical keyboard which is meant to be superior build quality to rubber dome

This is more a mechanical fanatics urban legend than else.

Most of the mechs are more or less artisanal products (just cherrys and ibm aren't).

Suerely a logitech keyboard built in higly automated plants, with a giant that do research, and built in milions of pieces are more refined than an xarmor built in hundred of pieces or a filco built in thousands.

Mech boards must be bought because one like them.

Not because they are more durable (false with some exception)

Not because they are more reliable (absolutely false)

Not because more refined (usually false)

The advantages are all in the feeling, the fixability and the moddability.

You don't like a kind of switch, just replace it. You dont like the bleeding light ? Just open the board and place a black screen between the leds, you dont like the filco keycaps? just replace them.

This is the real pleasure of mech boards.

[The Solutor]

I'm just glad I didn't listen to you and got a filco

So, is the only board you touched, I presume.

[HaiiYaa]

So, is the only board you touched, I presume.

Nope, got a leopold and I ordered a das with the filco and returned the das

I also had 2x steelseries 6gv2, noppoo choc mini and a zowie celeritas but those are all sold now

I would rate the filco by far the highest quality with the 2nd highest being the leopold

[The Solutor]

I would rate the filco by far the highest quality

So the poor keycaps, the echoing/ringing sound, the rattling spacebar, the off center esc key and alpha block aren't part of the board quality ?


Also the additional features aren't part of the quality ?

What is better in quality the empire state building or the pyramids ? Personally I couldn't care less that pyramids are there since 5000 AC and the ESB will likely broke in less than 100 years, when I need elevators, air conditioning and so on...

[HaiiYaa]

So the poor keycaps, the echoing/ringing sound, the rattling spacebar, the off center esc key and alpha block aren't part of the board quality ?


Also the additional features aren't part of the quality ?

What is better in quality the empire state building or the pyramids ? Personally I couldn't care less that pyramids are there since 5000 AC and the ESB will likely broke in less than 100 years, when I need elevators, air conditioning and so on...

The keycaps feels perfect and looks much better than on other keyboards. They might wear out a little faster than others but I can ALWAYS replace them after 5years or so

No ringing or echoing going on

The spacebar doesn't rattle unless I push it hard and much less than on the other mechanicals i tried

off center esc key? I didn't notice that and it doesn't bother me

what is alpha block?

The filco is the only keyboard that will last as long as the pyramids and still have elevators and air conditioning and so on.

[The Solutor]

The keycaps feels perfect and looks much better than on other keyboards. They might wear out a little faster than others but I can ALWAYS replace them after 5years or so

Maybe less...

When I buy a supposed Ferrari of the keyboards I don't want some good steel wheel, nor the best steel one. I want the alloy wheels

I could pay 160 euros for a no compromise keyboard, with top quality doubleshots, not for an old stile one with average keycaps.

I got mine for a good price so I'm fine with the actual quality, but if I hat to buy it at the usual price I had a lot to regret.

No ringing or echoing going on

I have high doubts on this, all the keyboard's housing is made with rigid plastic and is resonating like a guitar's harmonic chamber, surely is not my specific one that has this behavior, is just the way the keyboard is built.

The spacebar doesn't rattle unless I push it hard and much less than on the other mechanicals i tried

Oh just push the SB slowly, the Qpad one goes down like a knife in the butter, the filco one like a knife in the sand (and my filco is just three weeks old...)

off center esc key? I didn't notice that and it doesn't bother me

You affected by the placebo effect should start to open your eyes and to think twice before speaking about quality (the alpha plock is the alfanumeric part of the keyboard, look to the clearance on the left and the one on the right...

The filco is the only keyboard that will last as long as the pyramids

If lasting time is your concern you should know that a good amount of 5€  rubberdomes will outlast your filco and my xarmor.

and still have elevators and air conditioning and so on.

Those in the keyboard world are, doubleshots, pbt, retroillumination, media keys, programmable controllers, usb hubs, detachable cables, volume knobs, macro functions and so on.

Filco has none of them, Filcos are just...keyboards.

[HaiiYaa]

Maybe less...

When I buy a supposed Ferrari of the keyboards I don't want some good steel wheel, nor the best steel one. I want the alloy wheels

I could pay 160 euros for a no compromise keyboard, with top quality doubleshots, not for an old stile one with average keycaps.

Ofcourse doubleshots will outlast the filco keycaps. But the filco keycaps are made for feel and looks. I rather put my hands on something that actually feels nice on my finger and maybe just last half as long

I have high doubts on this, all the keyboard's housing is made with rigid plastic and is resonating like a guitar's harmonic chamber, surely is not my specific one that has this behavior, is just the way the keyboard is built.

I have high doubts on this. Surely is not my specific one that doesn't have this behaviour

Oh just push the SB slowly, the Qpad one goes down like a knife in the butter, the filco one like a knife in the sand (and my filco is just three weeks old...)

Goes straight down like a bowling ball dropped from a plane

You affected by the placebo effect should start to open your eyes and to think twice before speaking about quality (the alpha plock is the alfanumeric part of the keyboard, look to the clearance on the left and the one on the right...

I still dont see it so appearently it doesnt bother me one bit. Either way I don't see how that would have anything to do with quality

If lasting time is your concern you should know that a good amount of 5€  rubberdomes will outlast your filco and my xarmor.

You seem to make up alot of stuff

[The Solutor]

Ofcourse doubleshots will outlast the filco keycaps. But the filco keycaps are made for feel and looks.

so when a poor quality element is mentioned the argument automagically switches from quality to look.

I still dont see it so appearently it doesnt bother me one bit.

Yes, I'm sure Filco did a The Solutor special edition keyboard with a custom housing :becky:

You seem to make up alot of stuff

I have just 29 years of experience in IT, 15 of them as my main job.

Likely I touched something like 400 PC per year, just the las month I did a major upgrade on a big medical center and I touched one by one 70 different keyboards, a good 20% of them are cheap RD from 1995 or so, used 12h a day, and feels like new, and with all the legend in place. Just the yellowish tinge talks about their age.


When you will have some more consistent statistics and experience, come back and I'll be glad to learn some lessons from you.

[HaiiYaa]

so when a poor quality element is mentioned the argument automagically switches from quality to look.

As for keycaps and only keycaps the typing experience is for me more important. I want the place where i put my fingers to feel good more than being able to last 100years. I actually doubt the filco keycaps are cheaper to make as its a more complicated process. They are obviously made for the feel and to have a more professional look

Yes, I'm sure Filco did a The Solutor special edition keyboard with a custom housing :becky:

Why don't you take a picture to show it instead of being a condescending prick?

I have just 29 years of experience in IT, 15 of them as my main job.

Likely I touched something like 400 PC per year, just the las month I did a major upgrade on a big medical center and I touched one by one 70 different keyboards, a good 20% of them are cheap RD from 1995 or so, used 12h a day, and feels like new, and with all the legend in place. Just the yellowish tinge talks about their age.


When you will have some more consistent statistics and experience, come back and I'll be glad to learn some lessons from you.

You know nothing about my experience.

And all that you just mentioned are just your words. And with you making things up in the past why would I believe any of it ? Either way, you have no way of knowing exactly how much those rubber domes have been used. The year of production doesn't mean anything

You know damn well that most rubber domes will die before 10million keypresses so theres no way that they will outlast a filco.

[The Solutor]

As for keycaps and only keycaps the typing experience is for me more important. I want the place where i put my fingers to feel good more than being able to last 100years. I actually doubt the filco keycaps are cheaper to make as its a more complicated process.

Obviously. :lol:

Why don't you take a picture to show it instead of being a condescending prick?

Why I have to waste my time to demonstraqte to you a thing you can easili verify opening your eyes or, in the wors case using a piece ofa piece of paper thik enough to passon the right but not on the left ?

You know nothing about my experience.

My work consist often in guessing correctly, and I do it very well

And all that you just mentioned are just your words.

Listen, I have more than 60000 messages on the Internet, just find something purposely misleading in in what I wrote in the last 15 years, an then start with doubt.

If you're lazy limit your search to GH only.

Likely you will start to understand what's the value of "just" my word.

Either way, you have no way of knowing exactly how much those rubber domes have been used.

Yeah, how I can have an idea about the usage of PC in a place where I'm the sysadmin since the year 2000.

How I can guess  how much a keyboard is used when is placed in a reception that works 12h a day ?

You know damn well that most rubber domes will die before 10million keypresses so theres no way that they will outlast a filco.

You have completely no idea about what is durability and reliability and how they are calculated.

You are comparing apple with oranges, you are comparing the durability of a whole keyboard with the average durability of a single switch.