Dell AT102W or 105-key Monterey

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm really warming to the sound of Dell's ALPS keyboards -- they sound great even without the click, with that deep ALPS sound

I'm looking for a 105-key (European layout) ALPS (tactile or clicky) or Monterey switch keyboard, of which there seem to be precious few. I only know the Dell AT102W and the Chicony somethingorother.

[Ekaros]

I'm not sure if I should steal one from my University, it does exist in Finnish-layout 102-key...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

105-key you mean?

[TexasFlood]

I'm not a big fan of the Dells.  I do like the monterey blue switches, have a Chicony KB-5181 with those.  on ebay right now there is a clean looking Keymouse keyboard that I think has them although I don't see a picture of the switch.  Also kpsurplus has some Chicony KB-5181s that does show a picture of the switch.  They say "Sold AS-IS for Parts/Repair, Untested" but I bought one from them labelled that way which worked fine, YMMV.  In my case I received the same keyboard that was pictured so in theory you should be able to rule out any physical damage by closely reviewing the pictures.  In my case one keycap actually showed it was dislodged just a bit and I'd missed it in the picture but it did snap right back on.

[TexasFlood]

I'm not a big fan of the Dells.  I do like the monterey blue switches, have a Chicony KB-5181 with those.  on ebay right now there is a clean looking Keymouse keyboard that I think has them although I don't see a picture of the switch.  Also kpsurplus has some Chicony KB-5181s that does show a picture of the switch.  They say "Sold AS-IS for Parts/Repair, Untested" but I bought one from them labelled that way which worked fine, YMMV.  In my case I received the same keyboard that was pictured so in theory you should be able to rule out any physical damage by closely reviewing the pictures.  In my case one keycap actually showed it was dislodged just a bit and I'd missed it in the picture but luckily it snapped right back on with no issues.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I intend to reach the grave having never used eBay.

Chicony is a second choice because their layout is impure: they have the split backspace key and bigass enter. I had a KB-5181, and sold it for the price of shipping. Possibly a mistake, as it was a fantastic keyboard (backspace notwithstanding) and I should really have kept it simply because the layout is more sane than my Tulip, where \ and # are placed where you find the Windows keys now.

However, I am specifically looking for a 105-key keyboard. Clicky is optional, since I'm very happy with my Cherry brown Filco. ALPS however has a wonderful deep sound that you just don't get from Cherry.

Ideally I'd like a black AT102W but that's a truly unrealistic level of pickiness, even if they definitely existed

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Most people do. However, I find them so truly repulsive that I refuse to let them have any of my money. They so very desperately need some competition. I'm surprised Google haven't taken them on yet. Google are also evil, but their knack for success would leave eBay quaking, although ultimately I don't believe that anything would ever give them the level of regulation they need even if Google probably wouldn't build their version using stoned monkeys left over after the better ones got loaned to Facebook.

[TexasFlood]

So you want a truly rare keyboard and have ruled out using ebay?  Quite a challenge.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Since when was the AT101W/102W considered rare? There were around 20 on eBay when I checked yesterday, from two sellers. The black one, now that's going to be harder to find, yes, but no-one's going to part with one of those, eBay or otherwise.

An IBM Model M13, now that's another story, but I'm not aware that they exist in 104 or 105 key layouts.

So if I understand this correctly, placing a want ad in a classified adverts forum for a non-rare keyboard that you don't even like (i.e. something you'd very likely sell off cheaply) is something you consider to be unlikely to succeed?

Fascinating.

[TexasFlood]

Maybe you'll get lucky and find one at a relatives house like lam47.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I would go to any British shop, look for a riot, locate broken windows, enter the shop, steal the keyboard.

Ha! Yeah that's not doing us any favours right now ... Especially with the Olympics looming.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Maybe you'll get lucky and find one at a relatives house like lam47.

A Mac keyboard? I bought a Tactile Pro 3 brand new recently, but I won't be using any keyboard that stiff often enough to break it in and smoothen out the switches. It's a decent enough keyboard (apart from being fat and quite hideous), but it doesn't have the proper deep ALPS sound that I love (which you also get with Acer ALPS-a-like and with Monterey); it's a weird sounding thing, and a bit of a pain to switch over to on a Windows PC, although I'm getting used to it. (I messed up a good opportunity to obtain that Acer -- that was conventional 105-key and sounded great, and felt, to me, indistinguishable from blue ALPS.)

I didn't know anyone else made ALPS Apple keyboards besides MacAlly though. I also passed up a chance to grab an old ALPS Apple keyboard ... how truly stupid of me, as it was wonderful. One of the early PowerMac keyboards, clicky. That said, I only boot up a Mac once every few months nowadays.

[TexasFlood]

Hey, looking for a 105 key with ALPS or Monterey blues isn't an easy task, :wink:, not seeing a lot out there.  I see a few U.K. Dell 102Ws, on on ebay which I'm assuming you don't want to look at, and these, but can't say what switches they have.  If buckling springs are acceptable Unicomp can set you up with something new, or there are a few different cherry possibilities.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Eh.....? I already have brown and blue Cherry FILCOs, and I use the brown at work all day -- really nice keyboard, had it well over a year now. I bought a brand new Unicomp Spacesaver that I've given my father, which is also an excellent keyboard, and I just wish they could modernise their aesthetics. I have a 102-key complicated blue ALPS (that's the one I need to get that Belkin adapter for, as I can't get the stupid thing to talk to anything), and I've already owned and parted with a Chicony KB-5182 (the 102-key version of the KB-5181).

However, I thought I'd ask the trustworthy folk here if anyone had a spare Dell AT102W to sell off, or even a Monterey, or anything else ALPS and 105-key. I have a spare FILCO Zero XM myself, but they're even less desirable ... and that does happen to be all I've got for a USB Mac keyboard right now. (Someone at work is "borrowing" my wired aluminium and I don't really want it back all that much.)

[Cata1yst]

ive got a minitouch with monterays.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

A 105-key Minitouch?

[TexasFlood]

ive got a minitouch with monterays.

A 105-key Minitouch?

See, Daniel doesn't want it, so give it to me, I want it! :-D

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I'm not in the mood for this stupid bull****. It's bad enough that Internet Explorer is trying its level best to squirm out of every last thing I can think of to make it do something that Firefox can do naturally. I wish it would just die in a fire.

What's so frigging difficult to understand about a 105-key keyboard?

[TexasFlood]

OK, I'm done.  Good luck.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

*sigh* Maybe I need to look for the complex rules about what can and what cannot be bought and sold in the classifieds forum. Maybe there's a worthiness level that must be attained, and Dell keyboards are considered the sort of cheap trash you're expected to scavenge from somewhere debased, even when Dell put ALPS switches in them. I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

Hell, I just noticed someone looking for a FILCO Zero tenkeyless here ... I could be persuaded to part with mine although I'd have to scrounge something else to connect to my G4 tower (I keep giving nice brand new keyboards away to people).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

This is one of those things I just don't understand. Forums always have a gaggle of folk who are desperate for attention even if they have no idea what they're talking about. You see it so often with technical questions -- pages of nonsensical, clueless answers from people who seek to impress, but don't have a vague idea about what the OP was asking. This is a nuisance for the OP, and makes the topic very difficult to follow for anyone reading it later looking for answers to the same problem.

I don't understand why seeking a Dell 105-key ALPS yields suggestions that I go and buy a Unicomp (WTF I don't even). Or all manner of absurd ideas that clearly contradict what I clearly stated I was looking for.

Or the idea that somehow I have no idea that eBay exists. If eBay is the answer, why does the classified section even exist? Maybe I trust people here more than I do the unwashed hordes of lying morons that comprise eBay.

I'd like to believe that if I make a simple request, I would get a simple and correct answer, of which, there is precisely one: "Yes I have this keyboard for sale".

[TexasFlood]

Maybe Ian might have a 105 key SGI granite with dampened white ALPS.  As Ripster said, just trying to help.  If you don't want it, if all you want to know is do I have a Dell AT102W or 105-key Monterey then the answer is no and I do better things to do with my time.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Actually that was all I wanted to know, and nothing more. As for SGI Granite, it's nearly 1 am, and I don't even know anything about it. Someone has a Granite 101 down as dampened, which is a definite no – defeats the whole point of the exercise. Maybe I'll remember to look at it tomorrow.

[The Solutor]

Someone has a Granite 101 down as dampened, which is a definite no – defeats the whole point of the exercise. Maybe I'll remember to look at it tomorrow.

Dampened alps can be easily modded to undampened ones, just removing the dampeners, made  clicky cutting the "ears" on the switch leaf spring, made loudly clicky replacing the leaf, or even made linear removing completely the leaf spring, and all w/o any need of soldering.

[keyboardlover]

You're sounding like Keyboardlover, Redpill and Kalrykh all rolled into one.  Boy were THEY in a bad mood today.

Funny how you started the trolling, then try to blame it on others. Then you troll about it in yet another thread!

It's no wonder you won the troll poll by a mile.

[Findecanor]

Here on eBay: AT101W "buy it now" for £28 including shipping.

Do you want me to buy it for you?

[TexasFlood]

Here on eBay: AT101W "buy it now" for £28 including shipping.

Do you want me to buy it for you?

I saw that but decided not to post it due to his ebay attitude.  In fact I removed all my posts and will probably remove this one, hah.

[N8N]

there's someone in the UK asking about the value of a black AT102W with one busted switch on the keyboards forum...

[Ascaii]

try asking captain hat, he has several hes about to put up for sale.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20529-Looking-for-advice-and-info-on-a-couple-of-keyboards-we-intend-to-sell/page3

[TexasFlood]

there's someone in the UK asking about the value of a black AT102W with one busted switch on the keyboards forum...

Wow, right you are.  I saw that post but didn't really pay attention due to my lack of interest in Dell keyboards.  Looked at that thread now, I see the statement "We have a number (8 white and 1 black) of Dell AT102W PS/2 keyboards with black ALPS keys".  I didn't read all the way through to see how many he might have sold, if any, yet.  Looks to me like N8N has identified the answer to Daniel Beardsmores ask.  When Daniel Beardsmore posted yesterday, I searched for "Dell 102W" and missed this.  Apparently had I searched for "Dell AT102W" or "Dell *102W*", this thread would have come up.

[TexasFlood]

there's someone in the UK asking about the value of a black AT102W with one busted switch on the keyboards forum...

Wow, right you are.  I saw that post but didn't really pay attention due to my lack of interest in Dell keyboards.  Looking at that thread "Looking for advice and info on a couple of keyboards we intend to sell" now, I see the statement "We have a number (8 white and 1 black) of Dell AT102W PS/2 keyboards with black ALPS keys".  I didn't read all the way through to see how many he might have sold, if any, yet.  Looks to me like N8N has identified the answer to Daniel Beardsmores ask.  When Daniel Beardsmore posted yesterday, I searched for "Dell 102W" and missed this.  Apparently had I searched for "Dell AT102W" or "Dell *102W*", this thread would have come up in the results.  Good lesson learned for me.

[Captain Hat]

Yeah, I have a number of Dell AT102W boards available in a variety of conditions- The black board I have has one keycap missing and the slider on the switch has some damage (though it will still hold a key) but is otherwise in good condition, but we do also have a couple of literally new white boards- one still in the original bag, the other just removed from the bag for photos (but still with the original twist tie on the cable).

Are you still interested?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I do use F2 a lot, so it would have to be a beige one – I'm not a switch repairing type of person.

I don't want to suggest a price lest I look a fool or overprice myself ;-) What sort of price are you asking?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I searched for "Dell 102W" and missed this.  Apparently had I searched for "Dell AT102W" or "Dell *102W*", this thread would have come up in the results.  Good lesson learned for me.

I tried a classified search for AT102W, but didn't turn up anything – however, that topic wasn't in classifieds

The suggested price of £20 for a NIB AT102W seems reasonable to me, although I'm hopelessly naive.

[TexasFlood]

I tried a classified search for AT102W, but didn't turn up anything – however, that topic wasn't in classifieds

The suggested price of £20 for a NIB AT102W seems reasonable to me, although I'm hopelessly naive.

A quick search of the dreaded ebay, the first 4-5 "buy it now" black alps Dell AT-101Ws were going in the $37-$48 shipped prices.  Depends on what it's worth to you if you want it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Sorry, I missed a few posts.

Here on eBay ... Do you want me to buy it for you?

That's breaking the spirit of the law ;-) Granted I am sure everything has gone through the bowels of eBay at some point, but I do feel the need to be firm. Even if it's only because I get tired of hearing complaints about how stupid eBay is ...
 

Dampened alps can be easily modded to undampened ones...

I know, but I'm not a taker-aparter person -- I break things. SGI dampeneds do sound OK (audibly that is), but whoever said Granite has now edited it out of their post, so I don't know if they said it was 102 or 105 key, and SGIs seem to all be 101/102 key. I am considering getting a clicky ALPS 102-key with Model M layout (instead of one of the freak layouts that were popular in vintage days, like Tulip or Chicony) as that way every other key would be where it should be even if I'd lose the Windows key.

A quick search of the dreaded ebay, the first 4-5 "buy it now" black alps Dell AT-101Ws were going in the $37-$48 shipped prices.  Depends on what it's worth to you if you want it.

Pricing means nothing to me -- I normally just give things away, or "sell" them for the price of shipping. (Except my Zero XM, since that's all but new.) I don't want to insult someone by offering too low a price, but I don't want to throw away my money like an eBay user while everyone laughs behind my back (eBay users pay stupid money for things, but that's the insanity of auctions for you).

[Captain Hat]

I've sent you a PM.  I can get you an as-new AT102 for £20 plus shipping.  Shipping next day by courier (which is what we usually do as it offers the best protection for transported items and doesn't actually cost much more than ParcelForce/Royal Mail) will cost a total of about £8 including packaging costs.

If you want me to build you a custom clicky 105-key board I can do that as well, but it will be considerably more expensive

[TexasFlood]

Pricing means nothing to me -- I normally just give things away, or "sell" them for the price of shipping. (Except my Zero XM, since that's all but new.) I don't want to insult someone by offering too low a price, but I don't want to throw away my money like an eBay user while everyone laughs behind my back (eBay users pay stupid money for things, but that's the insanity of auctions for you).

Ebay prices to run towards the stupid.  If you poll and wait you can snatch some deal but you have to really want it to justify the time invested.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've gone with Captain Hat's.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Well, that was expected ... Despite what people say about tactile and clicky ALPS feeling very similar, I'm not so sure this is true. My Matias Tactile Pro started out feeling like an XM—very stiff and exceptionally tactile—but it's breaking in nicely. However, complicated black ALPS aren't that tactile – they're more like Cherry browns, with a subtle tactile bump, while I was hoping that being new they'd be all tactiley like Fukka or XM.

OK back to the drawing board on that one then

The main gotcha with the Tactile Pro is the horrible sound it makes, all high pitched and ringy. Too bad ALPS aren't popular enough in the west for there to be any likelihood of seeing ANSI and ISO 104/105-key Fukka keyboards from FILCO. I envy the Asians for having the ultimate keyboards – full-size Fukkas ;-)

I need to beam myself to the states and try out an ABS M1, see how tactile Fukkas feel, although that said, I couldn't use one of those in the office as they make a real racket.

(Typed on my yummy complicated blue ALPS ... Still my favourite keyboard.)