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Author Topic: POS Keyboard Question  (Read 3680 times)

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Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 12:46:58 »
Hello,

Im a lurker here and fairly new to the mechanical keyboard community. I was wondering how the Cherry POS (Point of Sale) switches (the ones that are cheap on ebay) play games? I am a big SC2 player, and really would like a mechanical keyboard, but dont want to drop the cash on names like Filco, Ducky, or Das. Since i am a complete noob with keyboards, I was wondering how the quality is of old cherry switches in comparison to names like Filco, Ducky, or Das? I am having a hard time knowing even what color the switches are on ebay, and is there a way to tell without emailing the seller. If so that is ok with me. Thanks alot in advance.

Ty
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Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 13:02:46 »
Thanks for the reply!

Anybody have any other answers?
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Offline Merlin

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 13:38:38 »
I thought the thread title was going to be about a piece of **** keyboard.
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Offline REVENGE

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 13:46:14 »
MX11802s (not really a 'POS' in either sense of the acronym) are still fairly common on eBay, prices have gone up to the $30 - $40 range. Beware if you buy a used point of sale board, they can be extremely dirty and worn, may turn out to be a real 'POS'.
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Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 13:53:25 »
Haha ok, the only one i saw was $80. I will keep searching! But how is something like a cherry keyboard build quality compared to something like a filco or ducky?
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Offline Arcanius

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 14:09:35 »
It's not close to a Filco, neither in case construction nor in flex, because of the lack of plate in Cherry boards.
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Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 15:24:52 »
Ohh ok thank you very much. Does anybody game or have heard of anyone game on a POS (point of sale) keyboard?
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 15:56:51 »
@Arcanius That's nothing but PCB vs plate mounted. Which is a matter of opinion.

@OP
     You should get one of the rawko boards (look in great finds, or search for that ebay seller name). They come in browns and clears (or whites as it says in his auction). They are also NKRO and fully programmable (and have craptons of extra keys that do nothing unless you program them to). It also then stores all that programming onboard. To me, this makes them some of the top suitable for gaming boards out there.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline N8N

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 15:57:09 »
I don't game, so my input is probably not the input that you're looking for... that said, if you think you want to try browns, the MX11800 is definitely a viable option.  However, I had one, and personally I couldn't stand it.  Not because it was a bad board, but because the non-standard layout of the arrow keys and nav block, which I use, took too much adjustment.

I'm typing this message on a G80-8200 ("MX8000") also purchased used 'n' cheap off the bay and it is much more to my liking.  Bog standard key layout.  Available in both brown and clear flavors.

I did have someone mention to me that for gaming they liked having the F-key row close to the number key row.  Not sure what kind of games that user was playing but the MX8000 has the F-keys arranged in a normal manner, but about 3/4" above the number key.  The MX11800 uses a non-standard F-key layout which is another minus in my book (I use the F-keys for AutoCAD; when I was actually using AutoCAD every day, I was using a Dell AT101W so I am used to the distance.)  The downside to the POS boards are the card readers, they just make the board bigger than it otherwise would need to be, taking up some of your valuable desk real estate.  but then again, for $35 you have a legitimate mechanical keyboard with NKRO (over PS/2 at least) so you win some, you lose some.

One thing that you should be aware of is that the classier keyboards like Filco, Leopold, etc. all use plate mounted switches, which is both good and bad.  Good in that IMHO they feel better.  Bad in that you can't do easy spring and stem swaps to try out different switches on the same keyboard without lots of soldering work.  Both the MX11800 and most (all?) of the various Cherry-branded POS boards (all Cherry-branded boards?) use PCB mounted switches, which makes for a slightly quieter board, but I can detect (both feel and see, honestly) a little flex on my MX8000 with clears (stiff springs) when I get a good head of steam up.

Edit: just read False_Dmitry_II's reply; just FYI he's talking about the same board that I am.  "rawko" is the seller on eBay that has the G80-8200 a.k.a. MX8000 boards.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:00:16 by N8N »
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Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:26:49 »
Thank you N8n and dimitri for your time, and very helpful posts. I really appreciate it.

Browns or blues for starcraft2 are supposed to be the best. I actually first saw the rawko listings and thats what got me started. Here is a dumb question. Do all cherry keyboards come with mechanical switches? For example.... http://cgi.ebay.com/Cherry-G83-6644-Smart-Card-Keyboard-/190512207442?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5b699652

Is that a mechanical keyboard? That card reader is not too obnoxious...

Now I have seen ps/2 and other formats, what exactly is wrong with ps/2?
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:33:44 »
I highly doubt the one that you linked is mechanical.

Nothing is wrong at all with PS/2 if you can use it. It has some "theoretical" advantages, even.

You can always color it. I'm about to get a new set of stuff from rawko (my old set is now just sitting and waiting for a chance to be used/needed. They have a stupid trackpad on them that would ruin the look). When I do, I will be coloring the keys and the case to make them look more like a current board. There are a few mod threads about doing that already, so you can check some of them out.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:45:16 »
Ok thats what I thought because that board goes for <$50 new. Jw.

"I will be coloring the keys and the case to make them look more like a current board."
That was actually my initial plan as well, since I have a knack for airbrushing.

Another silly question.. I have virtually no knowledge of the interior workings of keyboards, but lets say you took a hack saw and removed the card reader from the keyboard, would that disrupt the workings of the keyboard? All in the name of making the keyboard look more "modern" of course... :D
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:46:54 by tystees »
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Offline N8N

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:47:22 »
no, check out the Cherry wiki.  if you want to get the switches that are most commonly discussed here, you really want to look for a board with a part number beginning with "G80" that is the code for a board with the Cherry "MX" switches.  I have never used a G83, but I can tell you from experience that I'm not a big fan of the G81/MY boards.  (they can be useful, however, e.g. as donors of doubleshot keycaps.)

But anyway, G80 just means that the board has MX switches - but even different flavors of MX switches have different personalities.  They come in at least brown, blue, clear, black, and red flavors (not to mention special space bar switches like green and grey.)  So you still need to determine which switch the particular board that you are interested in uses.

more here:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Dating+Cherry+keyboards

Edit: forgot to mention, the switches used in the Cherry boards are the exact same ones used in the Das, Ducky, Filco, Leopold, etc. keyboards with the main difference being that the more expensive shiny new keyboards typically use a metal plate to mount the switches which gives a little more precise feel when typing.  The Cherry-branded boards use PCB mounted switches.  Other than that, for the same stem color, the switches should be identical.  The things that add value to the more expensive boards are the nice looking case, plate mount, and usually a controller with NKRO.  (but the "rawko" G80-8200 boards are in fact NKRO as well.)  And more street cred with the Serious Typist and Serious Gamer communities.  But as a recent noob myself I agree with the plan to start with a POS board, that way if you don't like the switches you chose, you can buy another to try something else and still have spent less than you would have for one Filco.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:57:57 by N8N »
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Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 16:59:38 »
Oh ok the nomenclature now makes sense, so im definetly looking for a g80. Now what about the removal of the card reader?
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Offline N8N

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 17:38:37 »
the case is built around the card reader, dunno if you really can do that.

That said, I have a G80-11901 a.k.a. MX11900 in front of me that I kind of bought by mistake, if you have any interest in it.  It's basically an 11800 but with a touchpad instead of a trackball.  this one has black switches, which I don't really have a lot of interest in, but they are popular with gamers  (I was gambling that they would be either blue, as it should be by the part number, or clears, which the seller thought they might be because of the protective film over the stems.  But one of the first couple keys I pulled had a hole over the stem of the switch and they're definitely black, and they feel very stiff, linear, and definitely non-clicky.)  One guy in line in front of you for it, waiting for him to PM me and let me know if he still wants it.  Touchpad is messed up though, and the one that I thought I could use to fix it doesn't work with it.  (original one still works, but has a big nick in it.)
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Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline tystees

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POS Keyboard Question
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 10 August 2011, 18:53:22 »
Sorry N8N, but blacks are generally used by the FPS crowd. Browns and Blues are what I would be interested in.

Thank you everyone who posted and helped me out, I really appreciate it. Looks like im gonna be talking to mr. rawko on the ebay... ;)
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