What do you make of the riots in England?

[keyboardlover]

And WHY are English rioters so nerdy looking???

[neo]

Must be the result of pent up frustration from using crappy rubber dome keyboards.
Either that, or a Zionist conspiracy.

[nathanscribe]

If that's a nerd where you come from, you have my sympathy.

The rioters are w*nkers who are looting as an excuse for lacking respect for humanity.  Damage has been estimated at something over £200 million.  There were 16,000 police on London streets a couple of nights ago, which took them away from other major cities, which prompted looters elsewhere.  There has been another event in the last day which was the EDL (a racist/nationalist far-right group) kicking off on the tail of everything else.  In Brimingham, between 1500 and 2000 Sikhs lined the streets to protect local homes and businesses, and several of them carried swords - funnily enough, there was no trouble.  What sparked that was the murder of three young lads out looking after their property - they were driven over on the pavement.  There was the incident with the Malaysian student injured and being mugged by those pretending to help him.  There have been several deaths and severe injury, and people have lost their homes in arson attacks, as well as many small businesses effectively finished from the damage.  The original event that sparked a peaceful protest somehow escalated and nobody's quite sure why, though there are a few theories.  Everyone I speak to has been a bit dumbstruck by it though, it just happened.

The police were instructed at first to just stand by and watch, not to intervene, as they had previously been criticised for heavy-handed tactics and causing the death of innocent bystanders.  But inaction has backfired too.  So it's all a mess.

Putting some perspective on it, someone I know said that in the Middle East, they riot to overthrow dictators - here it's an excuse for nicking stuff.

[fossala]

I agree that the looting and nicking is wrong but what chance do these people have. We have no social mobility in the UK so the kids will grow up with commercialism in there face without a touching anything.
The MP's were buying new flat screen TVs with our tax money every year till they all got caught red handed, the only difference is that with there expenses there wasn't a face of the people they were stealing off.
I hate the state of this country is in at the moment.

Ask yourself what you have to loose if you go to prison? your house? wife maybe, your job. You get the idea, what has someone got to loose when all they have is the clothes on there back.

[Hydroid]

As far as the politics go I'm not too sure, but when it comes to the looting of homes and businesses I think the country needs weapons. If every house they try to loot meets them with a few shotguns and assault rifles I think it would very quickly stop. I'm not even saying anyone needs to be killed, but just the consideration that they might not live through it would make that TV seem far less valuable. Right now they feel safe to be wreaking havoc because they are safe, there is nobody to stand up to them.

[mbc]

As far as the politics go I'm not too sure, but when it comes to the looting of homes and businesses I think the country needs weapons. If every house they try to loot meets them with a few shotguns and assault rifles I think it would very quickly stop. I'm not even saying anyone needs to be killed, but just the consideration that they might not live through it would make that TV seem far less valuable. Right now they feel safe to be wreaking havoc because they are safe, there is nobody to stand up to them.

What a dumb thing to say. If they had US gunlaws, there would have been guns on both sides and a lot of deaths

Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

[Hydroid]

What a dumb thing to say. If they had US gunlaws, there would have been guns on both sides and a lot of deaths

Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

I honestly believe otherwise. People would tend to think twice when they feel that they could come out on the short end of the stick. Right now, there might be a few gutsy people who would proceed regardless, but I'd say a large portion of people are taking advantage of the chaos for their own mini agenda and others are only participating because they feel as though they are safe in the large groups. When there is no threat to them they don't consider what they are doing as much and are more likely to just go with the flow. But if you end up with a whole street grouping up with weapons that can kill you to defend themselves you might want to take a second thought whether you really want to participate and risk losing your life. You might be willing to throw a few punches in a fist fight, but when someone is pulling a knife or gun on you, regardless of whether you also have a weapon of your own the apparent risk to yourself goes up. Guns speak without having to be fired. That's just how it is. And people want to look after themselves, especially the kind of people who are participating in these riots, its a completely selfish act that shows people putting themselves ahead of the well being of every other human being on earth.

[bluecar5556]

[video=youtube_share;Ig_bJdTlXEU]http://youtu.be/Ig_bJdTlXEU[/video]

By: David Duke

[Hydroid]

Excellent video there bluecar5556. I fear greatly for what is going to happen here in Australia, they have similar weapon laws to those in London, and they are allowing illegal immigrants in left right and center. Its only going to be another few years and the same thing will be happening over here. As much as people like to think about being able to all live together in peace and happiness the human race is selfish and far too diverse for that to happen and the only way for true peace is separation. On a smaller scale, dating couples break up when the realize that they are too different and can't successfully co-exist in a married relationship. I do hold to the belief that everyone is racist, I'm not saying that in a negative way either, that's just how we are. Accepting that there are differences and that there are religious and national groups that will never be able to get along together. Doesn't mean I hate anyone who is different, but we should be willing to accept that same viewpoint of being too different and just "agree to disagree". I'm not one to pick fights with other people, unless I feel my safety or well being have been invaded upon by others. I have a right to protect myself and my own just like every other human being. When people start breaking out of that and seeking to press their own will or agenda upon others you will have trouble on your hands and there will be consequences.

[bluecar5556]

It's human nature to preserve our own race by congregating.  Of course immigration will cause an upheaval, what does anyone expect?  All you have to do is study history and you will quickly discover that is the main contributing factor to violence in the world.  "Because without police, look at what you would be doing to yourselves."  It's called problem, reaction, solution and I might add, works like a charm.

[The Solutor]

Guns speak without having to be fired.

Statistics speaks. US is the western country where is easier to be killed.

And back to the topic, this is a clear demonstration that something is going wrong on our societ, no matter if you consider England, US or Italy. Richness is everyday more concentrated in the hands of few people, while the vast majority of the population becomes everyday poorer, and sooner or later this lead to a reaction. If this reaction is fully or just partly justified becomes a secondary detail. A detail that is greatly dependent by the observer POV.

[neo]

I told you it's a Zionist conspiracy, and now we have the proof! The bearded guy in the video said so.

[keyboardlover]

Agreed with neo about the rubber domes. I STILL think the AZERTY layout was behind the last French riots.

[bluecar5556]

Instead of proving a point, some of you point fingers and laugh or make pointless insidious statements.  Not sure about some but I graduated high school years ago.

[Hydroid]

Statistics speaks. US is the western country where is easier to be killed.

And back to the topic, this is a clear demonstration that something is going wrong on our societ, no matter if you consider England, US or Italy. Richness is everyday more concentrated in the hands of few people, while the vast majority of the population becomes everyday poorer, and sooner or later this lead to a reaction. If this reaction is fully or just partly justified becomes a secondary detail. A detail that is greatly dependent by the observer POV.

And do your statistics include the fact that the US is the largest western country in the world by a long shot? The US has over 300million people and is ranked 3rd globally for population, only losing out to China and India who do indeed dwarf the US and every other country in the world. Indeed, there are a lot of murders there every year, but you also hear stories of people defending themselves in hostile situations. With that many people living in 1 country you are sure to find complete mental cases as well as those who seek to cause trouble through cultural, racial or religious differences.

[keyboardlover]

I'd actually rather be killed by a gun then some of the diabolical methods they use to kill people in some other countries...

I think I heard once about an old guy in England killing his wife by running her over with a threshing machine.

[The Solutor]

And do your statistics include the fact that the US is the largest western country in the world by a long shot?

Statistics are obviously not calculated in absolute way, but by a number of crimes per inhabitants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Look those data from whatever POV, and you will see that the more weapons are available freely the more homicides you get.

[bluecar5556]

I think I heard once about an old guy in England killing his wife by running her over with a threshing machine.

Who knows, she probably deserved it if he went through all that trouble with that massive machine!    "Honey, can you get that corn stalk it left behind?" :While he makes a u-turn:  Kidding, just some sick humor.

[Hydroid]

Statistics are obviously not calculated in absolute way, but by a number of crimes per inhabitants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Look those data from whatever POV, and you will see that the more weapons are available freely the more homicides you get.

Yet look at South Africa. Highest homicide rate in the world at almost 6 times that of the US homicide rate. And yet it ranks 50th for guns per 100 residents as seen here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership) surely the US should have a higher homicide rate. Its not the guns that cause deaths its the people. I myself am a South African, I was born there and spent the first 14 years of my life there, before my family moved here to Australia because of fear for our lives. Many people that we know over there are not fortunate enough to have qualifications required to immigrate out of the country. My father and all my Uncles served in the military before the change of power in 1994 and my one Uncle currently is a mercenary in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan and due to recent movements by the government over there all their firearm licenses have been revoked. the weapons confiscated and now you are left with a country where most of the civilian population that did have weapons have now been disarmed and all the criminals still have them. I would love to see you say that having no means to defend yourself is better when you have had nights where you can't sleep because you are fearing that your house will be broken into and you will be murdered or beaten and your mother and/or sisters raped.

[fossala]

Why are you guys saying if our police had guns, they do have guns. It's apparently what his riot is about. Them killing a man then apparently planting a gun on the victim. The only difference is that the police have guns and not the maniacs.
Anyway all the police are just state sponsored thugs. I'm sure there are good police out there but the majority I have seen do not act within the law.

[bluecar5556]

"Even if police did act within "the law" it is still federal law and not common law which was abolished after the great depression of 1929.  I say if you want to have the rights of a human being and not an artificial person (there is a difference,) opt out of social security by filling out the IRS form 4361.  By doing so will force one to live off the grid because a social security number is required for everything these days which is the main contributing factor why no one ever hears about human beings actually being truly free and why most have absolutely no idea what i'm talking about." -Bluecar5556

[bluecar5556]

Even if police did act within "the law" it is still federal law and not common law which was abolished after the great depression of 1929.  I say if you want to have the rights of a human being and not an person (there is a difference,) opt out of social security by filling out the IRS form 4361.

[The Solutor]

Yet look at South Africa. Highest homicide rate in the world at almost 6 times that of the US homicide rate.

Sorry but you can't compare the South Africa with most of the western countries, it's recent history was troubled to say the best, and there are a lot of places, where ethnic or economical conflicts rose the crime ratio, look at the Northern Ireland, Russia, Balkan countries and so on. You should compare apples with apples: compare US with the other G7/G8 countries, or With Australia or New Zeland, as they are closer to you.

[Hydroid]

Sorry but you can't compare the South Africa with most of the western countries, it's recent history was troubled to say the best, and there are a lot of places, where ethnic or economical conflicts rose the crime ratio, look at the Northern Ireland, Russia, Balkan countries and so on. You should compare apples with apples: compare US with the other G7/G8 countries, or With Australia or New Zeland, as they are closer to you.

But you would agree with me that the crime rate was due to people not guns? The crime rate was escalated due to people being unhappy, not because they had more guns. I do agree that having a higher percentage of irresponsible people with weapons will yield a higher homicide rate overall, but what I am talking about here is the right for responsible, mature and even caring individuals to possess and carry fire arms to be able to protect themselves and the ones they love or care about from those that would seek to cause harm to them. In a situation where you have rioting groups in the streets torching stores and houses with molotov cocktails and looting for their own selfish gain they are demonstrating disregard for others and if their feelings and intents are strong enough they will find ways to cause harm or damage (such as molotov cocktails). Having arms more easily obtainable might make guns the predominant form of violence, but as we can see in this situation the lack of firearms doesn't make it safe or impossible for people with ill intentions to carry out those ill intentions. As Keyboardlover stated above I would rather die to being shot than being killed by something else. If I was to arm the person who would take my life I'd give them a gun over a crowbar, hammer, axe, wrench, molotov cocktail, chainsaw or anything else that can be found or made from basic everyday items that would yield a far more grotesque death. And in additon as I have been saying, if I can have a gun, I have a shot at protecting myself whereas if I have to resort to alternative homemade methods of protection I am less likely to be able to defend myself, but I sure as hell would be giving it a shot if the need arose.


@fossala - I am in no way saying "if the police had guns" I am aware that they have guns already, what I am talking about is a license to carry concealed weapons for civilians like they have over in the US. The reason the police haven't been able to keep things under control is because there isn't enough manpower. In times like this the civil duty of civilians should be to rise up to protect the Rule of Law for themselves and for society. When there are no consequences for actions there is no limit to how far selfish individuals will go for their own gain. One rioter was quoted as saying "Come and join the fun!" Does that sound like anyone who is worried that someone might do anything to really stop them? When they have lines of police officers on the run because they are outnumbered do you think that they feel threatened by the police force? I'll tell you though, when suddenly the odds are turned and civilians with a sense of civil duty and maturity are stepping up to defend themselves you can be sure things will change. People like that won't be the ones to look for a fight, but they are the people who are mentally prepared for bringing their A game if they come to the conclusion that someone is posing a threat that cannot be ignored or deterred. I'm not going to go pick a fight with anyone, but you can be dead sure that if you come at me or any of the members of my family with harmful intentions and have made up in your mind that you are going to cause destruction or harm then you will suddenly find yourself with a bone to pick with me. In that situation either you will succeed in harming me and my family or else you will find yourself being harmed and suffering the consequences of engaging in a dangerous gamble with your own life. Self defense will carry someone to great lengths regardless of whether they have weapons, but a weapon in the hands of a responsible and mature person using it in self defense can prevent further destruction of property or life.

[The Solutor]

Meanwhile at The Keyboard Company.....
(Attachment Link) 23995[/ATTACH]

No it's not the ping it's the Italian layout finally available...:happy:

[The Solutor]

But you would agree with me that the crime rate was due to people not guns?

I agre that, obviously people count, but the easy availability of the weapons count too.

Just yesterday, in Italy, the owner of a jewelery killed a young guy who entered in his shop with a toy gun, obviously he wasn't aware that was a toy, but he used a true gun just because it was handy. If you have a gun sooner or later you use it.

Think to what happened in Norway, this was the first case of this kind I remember, but how many of these cases happened in the US ?

Maybe one per year ? Do you think europeans are better people, or do you think that having a gun easier to buy has its part on this kind of crimes ?

[nathanscribe]

Here in the UK we don't have a gun-minded culture, and the law has barely enough in place to handle the instances we do have of people killing intruders in self-defence.  We're better off without making guns easier to possess.

[bluecar5556]

Wow, no guns huh?  Forfeit all of your sovereignty to the authority gods as if federal law does not take enough away already.  "Federal law: ...surrendering their individual sovereignty and many powers to the central government while retaining or reserving other limited powers"  Might as well start walking around with your hands up and better not scratch yourself, some cops have itchy trigger fingers.

[Daniel Beaver]

I guess I was wrong to hope for a meaningful discussion about this topic here.

[guilleguillaume]

I always liked this song:

[bluecar5556]

It baffles me how my thread in sig gets reported as being hacked with spam but others come out unscathed.  Someone has, more often than not, somewhat unrelated posts to some degree.  Is there any way to prevent all posts from appearing from a particular ID?

I figure the mature thing to do is stop it at it's source rather than b****ing about it.

[bluecar5556]

I'm not talking about Ripster or anyone else in this thread, what makes one believe i'm talking about you?  Hmmmmm?

[nathanscribe]

I guess I was wrong to hope for a meaningful discussion about this topic here.

Quite.  What I notice most is the lack of understanding of culture and politics here - not a criticism, as I wouldn't expect those living overseas to know any other country like a native resident.  The video on the first page made me laugh at first, it was so cheesily manipulative and misguided, and I switched it off after a couple of awful minutes - and Bloody Sunday was a whole different kettle of fish.

[bluecar5556]

Did you watch the video from the first post I submitted?  Would you agree culture and politics is universal to some degree from most praising television that is merely the exact same programming broadcasted globally.  The same group of people are manipulating not only one country but rather all except some middle eastern countries which is why we are at war with them to begin with. "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws" Amschel Rothchild. There is culture that isn't overpowered by the television these days?  You should give this a read, you shouldn't be so quick to jump the gun just because some of us live in the US.  We aren't all brainwashed, ya know...

[Lanx]

it's white trash acting like white trash, i really don't see what's so special about england rioting and looting. Heck when Japan had that quake/tsunami, ppl left all everyone elses personal belonging alone and didn't touch nuttin that didn't belong to them, basically a lifetime of following, order and tradition at play here.

[bluecar5556]

What is special about england is there is a massive influx of immigration.  No worries Lanx, Japan will more than likely be a victim to immigration eventually, just give it time.  Speaking of immigration, the mixing of races and television is the worst culprits to culture.  No wonder the US, and many other countries, has open borders where culture is what the TV tells people how to live, breathe, think, poop, piss, eat, etc.

[Lanx]

lol japan needs an influx of younger ppl since they ain't getting married and having kids, and wth is wrong with England anyway? so what if they have massive immigration? great go learn more about other ppl who want to embrace your country. What would have been cool is if that dumb ass prince chose a non white girl to marry, then that'd be cool, instead of him being all in-bred and stuff.

[bluecar5556]

so what if they have massive immigration?

instead of him being all in-bred and stuff

I'm afraid you are contradicting yourself.  What is wrong with massive immigration is it causes social differences and it's human nature for people to preserve their heritage by congregating of their own race.  Look at history and you will see all the proof you need.  It is the main cause to violence in this world, no wonder so many countries have massive immigration while the crime rate increases.  The USA has the highest crime rate of them all.  All races, color's and creme's reside here, what does anyone expect?  But if people speak out against segregation, they are brainwashed to say the derogatory name, "racist."

[Lanx]

but i don't get it, what does immigration have to do with young dumb white 18 year old hoodlums robbing any store they can get their hands on? Actually i think i saw something on the news where a neighborhood of immigrants or something protected their own stores by shooing away these thugs, no different than the LA riots when the korean store owners stood on top of their stores with rifles, that was cool.

[nathanscribe]

England is a country built on immigration.  Immigration per se is not a problem, or not the problem.  Nor is it "non-European immigration" (one of the quotes in the video that made me switch it off early), which shows a lack of awareness of the context and nature of various movements into the UK.  Migration to the UK from within Europe has caused friction, it's not just about Africans or Muslims or XYZ - I've heard people complain about "Poles taking our jobs" or a place being "full of them Kosovans" - it's a fear of difference, of that which is from outside, manifest within subcultural groups as well as on a wider scale in the gang mentality.  One aspect that has proved problematic is the concentration of groups of people moving in - particularly into areas already less than wonderfully secure in themselves.  Scapegoats are easy to find for those who want them.  I would say almost everybody I speak to personally doesn't give the slightest hoot whether or not people migrate to the UK.  Maybe that attitude is down to social/cultural/subcultural positioning, education, job security... whatever arguments there are.  I'm no sociologist.  When an English person complains about immigrants, I think of all those "Brits" who go to their Spanish villas and refuse to eat Spanish food, explore, talk to locals or even learn Spanish... there are still plenty of folk who won't touch "foreign muck".  That's not about immigration.  That's more a kind of insidious, low-level racism, or a lazy expression of insecurity of identity.

Anyway, all this is only an opinion based on direct experience.  As for the thread about Israel, I know so little about it all any comment I might make would be useless.

[bluecar5556]

Really? Hoodlums, thugs?  What's with the derogatory  name calling?  Why not refer to them by their heritage?  Sounds similar to the mainstream media, portraying them as "youths."  How do you know it's not the native people of England rebelling to the influx of immigrants by destroying corporate structures that sold them out?

[nathanscribe]

Really? Hoodlums, thugs?  What's with the derogatory  name calling?  Why not refer to them by their heritage?  Sounds similar to the mainstream media, portraying them as "youths."  How do you know it's not the native people of England rebelling to the influx of immigrants?

Because name-calling based on wanton criminal activity is different to name-calling based on ethnicity.

The looters were not engaged in racially motivated attacks, they were destroying and stealing from pretty much any commercial property they could that had anything remotely valuable in it, and some that didn't.  The looters were almost exclusively young men, not from the area they were looting, and were patrolling under the guidance of older men co-ordinating actions with Blackberries.  The looting around the country was not a direct response to the shooting that occurred in London.

[bluecar5556]

Migration to the UK from within Europe has caused friction, it's not just about Africans or Muslims or XYZ

You are arguing semantics now, "it is not JUST about Africans or Muslims."  Can you explain why you stopped watching that david duke video, again?

[nathanscribe]

You are arguing semantics now, "it is not JUST about Africans or Muslims."  Can you explain to me why you stopped watching that david duke video, again?

All I meant was that he said early on that the problem was non-European immigration, and I don't think that's true.  Typically the less liberal media here have used young black men and Muslims as the faces of undesirable behaviour.  It's misleading and selective.

[bluecar5556]

What do you think about the root cause being the native people of England rebelling to the influx of immigrants (anyone not of Anglo-Saxon descent) by destroying corporate structures that sold them out for a pound?

[Soarer]

What do you think about the root cause being the native people of England rebelling to the influx of immigrants (anyone not of Anglo-Saxon descent) by destroying corporate structures that sold them out for a pound?

I think that's total bollocks.

[bluecar5556]

I think that's total bollocks.

How can you say it's total bollocks without first explaining yourself?  That's a bit biased, don't you think?  Kinda reminds me of watching the mainstream news.

[Daniel Beaver]

[video=youtube;b0Ti-gkJiXc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc[/video]

We should really stick to keyboards.

[Soarer]

How can you say it's total bollocks without first explaining yourself?  That's a bit biased, don't you think?  Kinda reminds me of watching the mainstream news.

Just like that! Everyone sees the riots as supporting their own agenda - whether it be parenting, policing, immigration, economics, social structure, rich-poor divide... and while it's probably related to a number of those, I'm sure the two you picked out have nothing to do with it.

[bluecar5556]

Bank notes cause segregation because it separates people into the upper, middle, and lower class niches of how much paper and ink is in your wallet.  I could go on and on but trust me, you don't want me to.  I'll never shut up.