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Author Topic: what's the point of having double shots??  (Read 3862 times)

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Offline jrockroll

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what's the point of having double shots??
« on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 16:20:42 »
are they better than pbt keycaps??
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Offline keyboardlover

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 16:21:15 »
Legends won't wear. Lasered pbt legends will.
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Offline N8N

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 16:58:28 »
pretty much.  If you like the look, you want them.  If you don't care about the look, it's no big deal.
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Filco Majestouch-2 with Cherry Corp. doubleshot keys - Leopold Tenkeyless Tactile Force with Wyse doubleshots - Silicon Graphics 9500900 - WASD V1 - IBM Model M 52G9658 - Noppoo Choc Pro with Cherry lasered PBT keycaps - Wyse 900866-01 - Cherry G80-8200LPBUS/07 - Dell AT101W - several Cherry G81s (future doubleshot donors) (order of current preference) (dang I have too many keyboards, I really only need two)

Offline TheProfosist

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 18:31:19 »
yea it all about legends but i do prefer the feel of PBT caps and engraved ones should wear very slowly compared to other types offered.
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Offline Merlin

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 19:39:06 »
Quote from: jrockroll;398376
what's the point of having double shots??


You can get drunk quicker.
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Offline DesktopJinx

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 19:59:24 »
Is double-shot the term for casting the character into the key and filling it with plastic? Is this what IBM Selectric keys did?
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Offline litster

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 20:08:53 »
Quote from: ripster;398461
Yep, Selectric is doubleshot.

See All About Keys Wiki stickied above.
(Attachment Link) 24214[/ATTACH]

This picture reminds me of all the cross-section DK books!
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Offline Input Nirvana

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:32:00 »
I finally got doubleshots, and though I thought they would be earth-shateringly fantastic, (and they're not all THAT), they are a tiny bit nicer. There isn't a whole lot going on with a keycap, so a little better or a little worse is kind of a big deal. I like not feeling the decals (that's what my other keycaps have) and the slightly less sound. I prefer no legends, so in a perfect world I would have keycaps that are similar quality to a doubleshot but without the legend.
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Offline TheProfosist

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:33:27 »
just go with blank PBT they fell nicer and wont shine as soon as the ABS
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:40:15 »
Yeah, I definitely prefer PBT caps in general.
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Offline TheProfosist

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:43:29 »
I still like the caps on my HHKB vs my KBC PBT caps. the feel a bit better and the black on dark grey look really good. also the HHKB caps make the KBC PBT look cheap.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:52:14 »
I only have ABS on the Kinesis Advantages I use, and the doubleshots on the old ones I think may be ABS as well (I'd better check in the wiki if doubleshots are made of different plastic). The Kinesis has 12 different key profiles, some are "standard" keys, some are Kinesis-specific.

I don't know if I've used PBT keys.
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Offline TheProfosist

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:53:54 »
so far doubleshots are only ABS. Supposedly you can make PBT ones but no one currently does it.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 23:57:12 »
So the 'quality' of the doubleshot is just the thickness of the top of the keycap, and you can't feel the legend and it won't wear off?
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Offline The Solutor

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 00:04:18 »
Quote from: jrockroll;398376
are they better than pbt keycaps??


Is a Ferrari better than a Lamborgini ?

Is a Boeing 787 better than an A380 ?

Is an Intel CPU better than an AMD one ?

You will never have a definite answer.

Anything has pros and cons

Double shots have a better contrast and often larger better looking fonts, and they also have the nostalgia feel that most users like, PBTs will keep the texture for longer time because the harder plastic, and the tactile feeling is less sticky than ABS keycaps.

Both of them are way better than the cheap pad printed ones, like the default Filco keycaps.

So It's just matter of preference.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 00:06:35 »
Doubleshots only became a reality for me very recently, and now that I've typed with them for a month, and switch between them and singleshots, I'm noticing the kinda subtle difference. I'd like to increase the quality of the keycaps, but not have legends, so I'm open to an alternative. My keyboards have some "one-off" keys, so that's a bit of a problem for me.

So I'm just getting into the keycap details so I can do the key wiki we mentioned a month ago...

Baking putty in keycaps maybe?
(see, I read your excellent and fun wikis)
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 August 2011, 00:09:14 by input nirvana »
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Offline The Solutor

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 00:08:09 »
Quote from: input nirvana;398538


I don't know if I've used PBT keys.


Most of the actual beige cherry boards comes with lasered PBT keycaps.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:34:34 »
Quote from: The Solutor;398549
Most of the actual beige cherry boards comes with lasered PBT keycaps.

Except for relegendable keys apparently.

@ripster, so you can add that tidbit that I totally would have found in the wiki if it was in there.

I have also tested that model m spacebar with acetone, and it has now with both tests proven to be abs.

Also my acer keys failed acetone (in case anyone besides me cares about those), I was really hoping they were pbt so I could dye them. So far I have 0% abs success 4-5 attempts. No backups with that one, so I won't attempt it at all.
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline The Solutor

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:42:07 »
Quote
Except for relegendable keys apparently.


Given that they have no fonts and the surface must be in a different plastic (i dont know if it's acrylic or polistirene) the base of the keycaps can be safely made with an huge choice of plastics.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:53:41 »
It says 'Material - Undetermined'. Though in fairness, I was looking for relegendable and not two piece key. @solutor, they do have fonts. You can feel whatever they used for the lettering if you take the clear top off. Granted, some have no writing, but most of them do.

It is a Greenock Model. 42gsomthing, I'll look later.
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Offline sordna

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:54:58 »
Quote from: input nirvana;398548
Doubleshots only became a reality for me very recently, and now that I've typed with them for a month, and switch between them and singleshots, I'm noticing the kinda subtle difference. I'd like to increase the quality of the keycaps, but not have legends, so I'm open to an alternative. My keyboards have some "one-off" keys, so that's a bit of a problem for me.

So I'm just getting into the keycap details so I can do the key wiki we mentioned a month ago...

Baking putty in keycaps maybe?
(see, I read your excellent and fun wikis)

Haha, maybe you should contact Signature Plastics and order doubleshot blank keys! It's hilarious but hey, it might be possible.
Otherwise, order a doubleshots set with the same legend in every key: A tiny dot :-)
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:57:49 by sordna »
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Offline The Solutor

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 01:59:40 »
Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;398582
It says 'Material - Undetermined'. Though in fairness, I was looking for relegendable and not two piece key. @solutor, they do have fonts. You can feel whatever they used for the lettering if you take the clear top off. Granted, some have no writing, but most of them do.


I expressed poorly my tough, I mean that no font is present on the surface, so no concerns about wearing, they could be made with kalkitos if they wanted.
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Offline Input Nirvana

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 02:09:51 »
Quote from: sordna;398583
Haha, maybe you should contact Signature Plastics and order doubleshot blank keys! It's hilarious but hey, it might be possible.
Otherwise, order a doubleshots set with the same legend in every key: A tiny dot :-)

A dot...not bad :)
Or doubleshots with the same color plastic for both :) :)
I still have the issue with some of the keys being distinctive to the Kinesis keyboard :(
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 05:29:46 »
@solutor, noted. Yeah, I imagine they didn't put much protections on the bottom parts. The rest of the keys are pretty good though.

@ripster, oh it's definitely abs. melted, warped and everything else with the best of them.
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Offline Findecanor

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 05:47:16 »
Quote from: DesktopJinx;398460
Is double-shot the term for casting the character into the key and filling it with plastic?

Pretty much. It is a term from the plastics industry. "Double-shot casting" means that the cast item was cast with two types of plastics.
For keys, it means that one colour plastic was cast first and then placed inside another mould. Then the plastic of the other colour was shot into that mold around/inside the cavities between the mould and first colour.
The legends "can not" wear off because they are part of the keys themselves, not just on the surface.

Often, when people here talk about "double shot key caps" for their boards with Cherry MX switches, they refer to the double-shot ABS key caps from Cherry Corp. These have thicker walls than most other keys and therefore keyboards with them have a slightly different sound and feel (for the connaisseurs) than other key caps. That includes the "double-shot" key caps from Signature Plastics: they are relatively thin.
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Offline TheProfosist

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 10:45:08 »
Quote from: dante;398672
Blank PBT's are a ***** to find.  I know the Otaku contingent might be small but how hard is it to produce a few sets a year?  I've been asking for around a month now where to find these and I think I'm just going to say f**k it and stick with abs.

But even with abs it's difficult to find white abs cherry mx blanks.

It sounds like 2010 was the best year to get blank key sets.

Also: feel is subjective.  Many people feel the ABS keys on the Leopold are far superior than those on the Filco.
ask qtan about the PBTs he may be able to get the off of taobao

get your blank abs keys from wasd keyboards (well depending on what board youy have)
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Offline bpiphany

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 10:59:44 »
Signature Plastics have blank PBT caps. Here is their current inventory. I didn't check if they have every key needed to put together a complete set of any color though.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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what's the point of having double shots??
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 14 August 2011, 21:37:23 »
If by tested, you mean I assumed they were pbt like the rest of the lasered keys, then watched them warp, then melted a few for fun, then yes. I tested them.

Also, here's the full model for the abs spacebar: 42H1292. Made late '96 and in the Greenock plant.

By the way, space invader (or at least the ones I have Rt8255c+, is one of them) keys are all PBT.
« Last Edit: Sun, 14 August 2011, 21:40:10 by False_Dmitry_II »
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)
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