Author Topic: Blue tactilinear ALPS (Read 2737 times)

Daniel Beardsmore · « **on:** Thu, 18 August 2011, 15:04:43 »

I decided to finally take apart a switch on my Tulip ATK 030244 and I've confirmed that it is indeed complicated blue ALPS.

For fun, I reassembled the scroll lock key without the click leaf. The end result is a tactilinear bue switch. The switch leaf gives it almost as much tactility as a Cherry MX brown (which is sad), but the switch is softer and smoother and the tactile point is much better defined. (No Rip-O-Meter test, I don't have sufficient coins on me.)

I'm curious what a whole keyboard of these switches would be like – that Zenith green ALPS keyboard seems a lot more appealing now. If they can pull off an ISO KBC Poker I'm tempted to order mine with reds just to see what a decent linear switch is like – possibly a lot like this, except not tactile at all. I don't know whether a linear Cherry would still have the same scrapy feel as the browns, owing to the ramp inside. For whatever reason, blue Cherries don't have that scrapy feel at all.

I certainly won't make the tactilinear mod on this keyboard as it has the ultimate clicky sound on the planet, deep and resonant. And it's very tactile.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 18 August 2011, 17:03:30 »

The one teensy thing wrong with this keyboard though – the following key combinations work:

LAlt + LCtrl + F11
LAlt + RCtrl + F12
RCtrl + RShift + Home
LCtrl + RShift + Home
RCtrl + LShift + Home

Whereas the following don't ghost, they simply fail to register the third key at all:

LCtrl + LShift + Home
LAlt + LCtrl + F12
LAlt + RCtrl + F11

Ghosting I understand from a circuitry perspective, but not why keys would simply go missing.

I'll have to take in a whole pile of 20p coins to work and test my tactilinear switch.

I can't say whether Cherry MX red is good or bad, but I'm just hoping for something that's not scrapey like browns.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 14:43:15 »

RipOMeter test using £1 coins @ 9.5 g each:

Tactilinear blue ALPS (Tulip ATK 030244): 38 g actuation (£4), 47.5 g bottom out (£5)
Complicated blue ALPS (Tulip ATK 030244): 66 g actuation and bottom out (£7)
Complicated black ALPS (Dell AT102W): 66 g actuation and bottom out (£7)
Cherry MX brown (Diatec FKBN105M/UKB): 57 g actuation and bottom out (£6)
Cherry MX blue (Diatec FKBN105MC/UKB): 66 g actuation and bottom out (£7)
XM white (Diatec FKBN87Z/EB): 85.5 g actuation and bottom out (£9)
XM green (Matias Tactile Pro 3): 85.5 g actuation (£9), 95 g bottom out (£10)
Fukka white (Matias Tactile Pro 3): 76 g actuation and bottom out (£8)

All the switches bottom out and actuate simultaneously under this test, except the linear ones, which hold on that extra 9.5 g longer.

The figures are heavily rounded up due the poor granularity (9.5 g) but they should provide a rough relative guide; it's evident from 85.5 g vs 66 g that, in addition to the differing force curves of ALPS compared to Cherry, XM clicky switches would probably give you blisters if you were stupid enough to make a keyboard using them (anyone want an XM FILCO Zero tenkeyless?) A keyboard of all XM greens would be diabolical – why do such awful switches even exist?

Pylon · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 15:41:20 »

Well, they're only for lock lights.

I briefly tried a PA-1000H typewriter with greens and it didn't seem all that heavy.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 15:51:09 »

What sort of greens? These are XM greens. I would imagine complicated greens are lighter. And tactilinear blues are even lighter yet, around the same as Cherry MX red if I recall correctly (35 g).

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 19:30:20 »

Sorry? The Tactile Pro 3 uses XM green ALPS switches for the integrated LED keys. However, I was suggesting that Pylon may have been using complicated green ALPS which would presumably be a lot lighter.

I've also just added XM white and Cherry MX blue to my list, as those are the ones I have at home.

I know my granularity is out of whack; I guess I should have used pennies as they're lighter (3.5 g I think I read) and I have no end of the stupid things. Oh well.

Crazy9000 · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 19:31:00 »

Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore;401224

The one teensy thing wrong with this keyboard though – the following key combinations work:

LAlt + LCtrl + F11
LAlt + RCtrl + F12
RCtrl + RShift + Home
LCtrl + RShift + Home
RCtrl + LShift + Home

Whereas the following don't ghost, they simply fail to register the third key at all:

LCtrl + LShift + Home
LAlt + LCtrl + F12
LAlt + RCtrl + F11

Ghosting I understand from a circuitry perspective, but not why keys would simply go missing.

I'll have to take in a whole pile of 20p coins to work and test my tactilinear switch.

I can't say whether Cherry MX red is good or bad, but I'm just hoping for something that's not scrapey like browns.

The third key is intentionally blocked to prevent the ghosting effect. You have a 2KRO keyboard, which is pretty common. Remember 2KRO is a minimum, you will be able to press down more in areas that the matrix can handle more being pressed.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 19:37:52 »

Quote from: Crazy9000;401954

The third key is intentionally blocked to prevent the ghosting effect. You have a 2KRO keyboard, which is pretty common. Remember 2KRO is a minimum, you will be able to press down more in areas that the matrix can handle more being pressed.

Ctrl-Alt-F12 (Ctrl-Alt-Del over Radmin) works fine on a bog standard Dell rubberdome, as does Ctrl-Shift-Home (select everything to start of document or text box – which I've used since forever, along with the Mac counterpart on even more dreadful rubberdomes). I know my Packard Bell rubberdome from my 486 has ghosting as I observed really weird behaviour in two-player Tyrian Destruct, that I've now identified as ghosting.

This is the first keyboard where such simple three-key shortcuts don't work – I guess whoever designed the matrix was a nutter. Thank goodness the Keyboard Company forces Europeans to buy the NKRO versions of Diatec's offerings!

sordna · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 19 August 2011, 19:40:30 »

Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore;401859

What sort of greens? These are XM greens. I would imagine complicated greens are lighter. And tactilinear blues are even lighter yet, around the same as Cherry MX red if I recall correctly (35 g).

MX reds have a 45g actuation. Wow, tactilinear blues are then noticeably lighter than red cherries !

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 20 August 2011, 10:59:44 »

Eventually I will get the capitalisation in RipOmeter correct ...

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 20 August 2011, 11:20:36 »

They're high because they're rounded up to the nearest 9.5 g. That much is obvious. If I was pioneering this technique I would go back and use new pennies (3.5 or 3.6 g, I forget) for significantly improved scale granularity. However, a major constant in life is that I'm the last to discover or realise anything, so it's not worth it. The above figures do however serve to illustrate how light this switch is, even if it doesn't feel light, perhaps because it's linear. And I am aware XMs suck.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #11 on:** Tue, 23 August 2011, 18:09:37 »

D’oh. I didn't spot that on the RipOmeter page you already listed 20 pence pieces at exactly 5 g the same as a nickel (and there seems to be no variation between old specimens from the 80s, and now). The granularity of a penny is superior, but sticking to 5 g weights maintains consistency.

I'll bear that in mind if I have anything anyone considers worth me testing.

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Author Topic: Blue tactilinear ALPS (Read 2737 times)