Help! alps switch reassembly disaster

[Lorfa]

So I was trying to solve this problem I mentioned here:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?20839-White-alps-ffffrustration&p=396253#post396253

Upon reassembling the switch though I simply cannot get it to assemble and not be "stuck". At one point the click leaph (guess what key isn't working) got tangled with the metal widget that presses onto the switch plate(?) and to get the switch back out I had to bend it every which way.

Can someone draw in paint or whatever how _exactly_ the click leaph is supposed to interact with that metal widget (also the technical term would be nice)? My click leaph also got bent but I have an old avant so I can probably get a new click leaph there. Iph I knew how they interacted exactly I might be able to bend them such that they still work properly.

Iph I cannot what is involved in replacing the metal widget?

I really really really do not want to purchase a new keyboard, but iph I absolutely have to what are the phavorites here?

[N8N]

Are the click leaves the same across all Alps switches?  I've got an AT101W that I have no real use or love for.

[The Solutor]

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=ALPS+switches


BTW are you speaking about a real alps, xm, fukkas ?

[Lorfa]

Avant Stellar white alps

Which I believe are real complicated ALPS

[The Solutor]

Avant Stellar white alps

Which I believe are real complicated ALPS

So they are pretty easy to reassemble.

Just place the leaf, the white slider, and the coiled spring on the upper part of the housing, then you can  asseble the switch keping the keyboard upside down, or use a drop of gease to keep the coiled spring stuck to the white slider.

Use the alps writing (if present) to understand the correct orientation of the upper housing, the slider must be oriented with the little cut part facing the contact leaf and not the tactile leaf.

That's all...

[Findecanor]

Yep. I hold the entire keyboard upside down when I assemble ALPS switches.

There are a few things to think about:
* Hold the keyboard upside down when assembling.
* Hold the upper housing with leaf, slider and spring in the slider that is protruding out of the housing.
* The click leaf has to be in the correct compartment inside the housing with the long part of the click leaf against the outer wall.
* When you assemble it, the click leaf should go on the opposite side of the slider from the actuation mechanism.

[Lorfa]

I have done this before (did you read my post? :/ ), the problem is that the click leaf is bent a bit wrong, and the copper part it interacts with in the socket is especially bent out of shape.

I guess what I'm going to do next is to get my old avant out and remove one of its keys to get a fresh click leaf and examine how the "interaction leaf" is supposed to look and try to bend it that way.

If not I'm going to need a procedure to replace it and it's hard to even find diagrams of these.

Note: Using the "interaction leaf" directly to type the letter f when needed

[Lorfa]

Update: It did not work.

Unable to bend the copper piece that closes the circuit on the switch plate into such a way that it will allow me to place the switch back into the socket.

I don't know what to do, buy new keyboard I guess ;-(

[flashstar]

Lorfa....

What on earth!

On complicated ALPS switches there is no single copper contact leaf. There is a composite plastic/metal contact mechanism. I usually do not see any problems with these. On Simplified ALPS switches (FUKKAS), the contact leaf is copper and can be very tempermental in my opinion (about 5% of the time, disassembling the switches causes the contact leaves to become hopelessly bent). I mangled about 5 contact leaves on the last Omnikey 101p that I cleaned so I just soldered in 5 complicated ALPS. I'd recommend purchasing and soldering complicated alps into the board in place of the crappy FUKKA key switches. You will hardly notice a difference in the feel of the switches. Plus, soldering on these boards is as easy as pie. You could even replace all of the switches with complicated ALPS, but I am guessing that you are not up for that amount of work at the moment.

Hope this helps!

[Lorfa]

This thread needs pics.

Bent piece that the click leaf interacts with:













The other parts to the key:



The housing that had an unfortunate accident, a small hole was punctured in the plastic with a tiny awl by mistake. No change in its function.





Bottom of housing, which looks very ugly up close, I assure you it is in better condition than it looks:



Original Click Leaf which shows some damage on the bottom "fin":







Newer Click Leaf that is in better shape but is showing the same type of damage that happens when I try to put in the switch:





An Avant Stellar with an F key in turmoil :-(

[Lorfa]

Say goodbye to that Simplified Type 1 Clicky ALPS.

You really need to desolder it and replace/swap at this point with Scroll Lock or whatever.

I'm pretty sure this is beyond my abilities but I was curious as to the procedure.

How exactly would you remove it? The pcb is held to the key plate via the soldering of all the keys, so I'd have to either insert a tool to exactly the right spot or can you desolder it from underneath?

Is there absolutely no way to bend that copper piece back into a reasonable enough place?

[The Solutor]

Avant Stellar white alps

Which I believe are real complicated ALPS

No they aren't, so a good part of the suggestion you had were pointless/misleading.

[Pylon]

Desoldering Alps isn't that hard. You just need to get to the bottom of the PCB, remove the solder, and the switch should come out (possibly with some pushing). It's not soldered to the plate.

[The Solutor]

Italy is the new France in terms of rudeness!

This is why I asked for pics you pezzo di merda.

Hey little idiot, calm down !

[The Solutor]

You should talk with your gynecologist about your problem...

[keyboardlover]

At least I helped a noob, you puttanesca.

I actually had to lol at that.

[The Solutor]

I actually had to lol at that.

The poor guy is trying to insult with a kind of pasta :pound:

[Lorfa]

This is a good video on ALPS removal.

It sure is. I am trying to desolder a switch from old Avant but I ran into a problem. There was no copper flux braid at the store so I just got some copper wire instead and tried to braid it myself. It is not as neat but I figured it would work.

It's not working

My copper braid doesn't "suck up" the solder like his does. Maybe if I really smash it flat it will work but worried that it is just plain not the same stuff.

The other problem I'm having is that the switch leads are bent onto the pcb, not straight, and unbending them to get the switch to let go resulted in one of them being broken off. So much for that switch. Good thing I've got this older Avant to use as a donor board.

Probably part of the problem is that my soldering experience is literally the 20 or so minutes I spent trying to do this just now.

I guess I can call around town tomorrow to look for some genuine copper flux like the one he has in the video. They didn't sell it at the two hardware stores I was at today :-/

[Lorfa]

Desoldering Alps isn't that hard. You just need to get to the bottom of the PCB, remove the solder, and the switch should come out (possibly with some pushing). It's not soldered to the plate.

You're absolutely right.

It's just that a noob like me is having trouble with the "remove the solder" part. I think my copper wire is definitely not a sufficient desoldering material. The actual desolders are made a bit special for the task. I believe this is my mistake.

[bluecar5556]

Do NOT, do NOT, I repeat DO NOT click his other videos.

I'm scarred for life, dear god.  See post above for link if you must.

ripster 1
bluecar 0

[Pylon]

You're absolutely right.

It's just that a noob like me is having trouble with the "remove the solder" part. I think my copper wire is definitely not a sufficient desoldering material. The actual desolders are made a bit special for the task. I believe this is my mistake.

There's an extremely ghetto way involving a razor saw that's pretty effective, except it results in cut traces about half the time. I would not recommend doing that though.

[bluecar5556]

You must saturate the de-soldering braid in flux, no exceptions!  Otherwise, there will be unsatisfactory results, comparatively.

The flux lowers the surface tension of the solder, allowing it to wet more readily, thus is soaked up by the copper with ease.

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[The Solutor]

You're absolutely right.

It's just that a noob like me is having trouble with the "remove the solder" part. I think my copper wire is definitely not a sufficient desoldering material. The actual desolders are made a bit special for the task. I believe this is my mistake.

Always add some "fresh" (unleaded) solder before trying to remove the older one, and a basic desolder is cheap enough, use the desoldering wire just to refine the work (if needed)

[Lorfa]

Always add some "fresh" (unleaded) solder before trying to remove the older one, and a basic desolder is cheap enough, use the desoldering wire just to refine the work (if needed)

I actually didn't see you and bluecar's reply until just now, after I've already "done the deed".

Once I got the copper desolder braid I was in infinitely better shape. After some tries I managed to get the desoldering part down pat fairly well. The soldering iron I am using is imo, not well suited to the task. It's a 'gun' type one and the soldering bit it has is not terribly good for small jobs. The other ones it came with did not look any better.

I really needed one that was more like a pencil and came down a point. Instead it was shaped more like a flat-head screwdriver and I had to use the edge of it. The other problem was that it is rather heavy for a precision instrument, and I also had to squeeze the trigger fairly hard to get it to heat up. This made aiming it in a precise manner difficult. My hand kept shaking, but despite this the desoldering went pretty well.

The soldering however was very difficult for me. My hand was just shaking too much for the project to go smoothly. On one of them I got the solder wire stuck, but the 'blob' I made looked fairly good so I decided to just cut it off and cut down the 'stem' the most that I could.

I ended up with two soldering "blobs" that were a bit larger than the factory ones on the pcb. I mean you can certainly tell that one key was not soldered by the same folk :-P

I plugged it in and it WORKS!! :dance:

So far so good anyways. It's a very fresh switch too, it was the 'f6' key from the extra function key set of my previous Avant. I may never have actually pressed the key!

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO REPLIED!!!!

Special thanks to Ripter for the video link that changed my mind about the whole thing.