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Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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New Computer
« on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 12:38:58 »
My current system:

AMD Athlon 6400+ X2 3.2GHz
512MB 4870 (underclocked as far as possible)
2GB DDR2 800MHz
750W PSU
1440x900 Monitor
1 TB HDD

Should I upgrade now or wait for Intel's new 2011 socket? My budget is around $1500 maximum and I definitely don't want to buy tech that is about to be shelved in 3 months time.

If I were to upgrade I've theorized the following system; please let me know of things that could be changed for the better.
      
Power Supply -      SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold            $139.99      
Case -         Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T   $169.99      
SSD -          Crucial M4 128GB                $206.99      
Heatsink -       Noctua NH-D14                   $85.87      
TIM -          Shin-Etsu G751                     $4.99      
RAM -          G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB              $54.99      
Graphics Card -    EVGA GeForce GTX 570               $319.99      
Processor -       Intel Core i5-2500K               $219.99      
Motherboard -      ASUS P8P67 DELUXE (REV 3.0)            $219.99      
Monitor -       ASUS VH242H Black 23.6"               $179.99      
                                
                               TOTAL: $1602.78 Looks like I'm $100 over budget. ^_^


Also, I plan on using my computer primarily to play games such as Starcraft II, CS:GO (when released),  Deus Ex, Crysis 1&2 as well as any other future game release that suits my fancy (maybe even the new Modern Warfare :P).
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 August 2011, 09:20:45 by KeyboardsAreCool »

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #1 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 13:22:31 »
Quote from: ripster;406031
Where's the SSD?  *****es love SSDs.  And 2600Ks too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148357

How's that?

fossala

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« Reply #2 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 13:24:01 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148357

How's that?
Lol, "RealSSD". Guess it's better than them fake ones.

Offline csm725

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« Reply #3 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 15:24:02 »
Nice. I recommend two Yate Loon D12SM-12 from Petra's Tech Shop in push-pull.

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #4 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 17:26:39 »
If you don't mind some backlight bleeding and not the best color uniformity, go for a DELL U2311H instead. A 6bit 4CFL E-IPS panel is still way better than a TN, viewing angles and colors, and very reduced lag for this kind of panel. Don't let the 8ms fool you, as it's way faster in practice than my old 5ms TN (HP q2207) due to RTC.

Wouldn't go for any other SSD other than a C300 (best random 4K) ou M4 (speed), at least until sandforce irons current firmwares.
Will you have use for a 2600K instead of a 2500K to make the maximum of HT? If you intend to overclock and game only, the price difference might not be worth it.
For the cooler, would go with a Thermalright Archon. It's already a beast with only one 14cm fan, and you can add another too.

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #5 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 19:25:30 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;406140
If you don't mind some backlight bleeding and not the best color uniformity, go for a DELL U2311H instead. A 6bit 4CFL E-IPS panel is still way better than a TN, viewing angles and colors, and very reduced lag for this kind of panel. Don't let the 8ms fool you, as it's way faster in practice than my old 5ms TN (HP q2207) due to RTC.

Wouldn't go for any other SSD other than a C300 (best random 4K) ou M4 (speed), at least until sandforce irons current firmwares.
Will you have use for a 2600K instead of a 2500K to make the maximum of HT? If you intend to overclock and game only, the price difference might not be worth it.
For the cooler, would go with a Thermalright Archon. It's already a beast with only one 14cm fan, and you can add another too.


Which SSD is better? The C300 or the M4?

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #6 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 20:01:00 »
Decide on a usage pattern and you can get an answer.  They have different strengths and if what you do doesn't play to those strengths then you're not getting the best out of that particular model.

Just google c300 vs m4 and you'll get some interesting data.  In all reality, normal users won't be able to see the difference.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #7 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 20:10:12 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406027
My current system:

AMD Athlon 6400+ X2 3.2GHz
512MB 4870 (underclocked as far as possible)
2GB DDR2 800MHz
750W PSU
1440x900 Monitor

Should I upgrade now or wait for Intel's new 2011 socket? My budget is around $1500 maximum and I definitely don't want to buy tech that is about to be shelved in 3 months time.

If I were to upgrade I've theorized the following system; please let me know of things that could be changed for the better.

Intel Core i7-2500K    $314.99   
MSI Z68A-GD80    $219.99   
ASUS ENGTX570    $349.99   
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB    $ 54.99   
Crucial RealSSD C300    $122.49   
ASUS VH242H Black 23.6"    $179.99   
CORSAIR Enthusiast Series 850W $134.99   

TOTAL:    $1282.43

Currently in need of: A good CPU heatsink; either air or easy to install liquid cooling.

Also, I plan on using my computer primarily to play games such as Starcraft II, CS:GO (when released), Deus Ex, Crysis 1&2 as well as any other future game release that suits my fancy (maybe even the new Modern Warfare).


Frankly this configuration seem made to be pointlessly expensive.

Personally I agree just with the C300 (for the record the 64G is not just too small is also way slower than the 128G)
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 20:51:38 »
Quote from: The Solutor;406177
Frankly this configuration seem made to be pointlessly expensive.

Personally I agree just with the C300 (for the record the 64G is not just too small is also way slower than the 128G)

How is this configuration pointlessly expensive? I fail to see the point.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 20:57:08 »
Oh shoot... looks like he mod'd the post to include that ridiculous 850w PSU.  650w is overkill unless you're getting 2-3 monster vid cards.  That 750w is massively overkill for your current rig and you under-clocked your GPU?!?.   use this and don't go above the recommendation.

The mobo is overkill unless you need some feature that you can't get elsewhere... what do you want in a mobo, there are plenty for less cash.

The HD6950 has much better bang for the buck and isn't much slower than the 570.

Spend the savings on more SSD space, you're not going to run a full rig on just 64GB.  128GB with just those games might be possible.
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Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #10 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 22:03:22 »
Oooooh, benchmarks.  Shiny!

But seriously, going with the best bang/buck is just making the wise choice.  I also don't think a lower wattage PSU is going to affect his benchmarks :)  the 2500 vs 2600 isn't even that big a deal unless HT does something for you.
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Offline 500_pts

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« Reply #11 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 22:39:49 »
You failed to mention which keyboard you are going to buy!
REALFORCE 86u | HHKB Pro 2 | Filco TKL| Filco TKL | Leopold TKL | KBT Race

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #12 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 22:45:11 »
As said above, C300 vs M4 is really about usage, with the former probably faster (but noticeably?) as an OS drive. The M4 is newer and $40 cheaper in the next size where performance goes up considerably, so if it makes the leap easier to 128GB, it's way better than either in 64GB version.
Depending on needed features/layout, an ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 (REV 3.0) could also be a very nice overclocking board with a friendly UEFI bios, strong PWM and a bit cheaper. And even this will probably exceed most needs.
The HD6950 2GB has the best price/performance ratio with the bonus of easy bios unlocking to a lower clocked '70 if you're lucky. But given the horsepower of this setup, the extra ooomph of a 570GTX should be welcome if you have money to spare. For HD6970 vs 570GTX it's your choice to check which fares better on the games you play.
On coolers, that's really a personal choice with many top air to choose. I'd prefer the Archon due to greater memory clearance, and good/silent performance without push+pull (still being an option), the bad part is width (gpu clearance) and the height of this monster. For more traditional and beefy tower options, either the TR Silver Arrow, TR Venomous X, or Prolimatech Supermega are some of the best. Beware that most will steal memory slots or block tall sticks.
Unless you max your CPU and use a pair of GTX570s, a 850W PSU is overkill. You have also a PC P&C Silencer Mk II 750W for $109, or another similar Corsair if you prefer. Both would still give you an (excessively) safe margin while stretching out both CPU and GPU with 62a on 12V. Shave a bit here and there, and you can jump to a 128GB so you can store most games.

Still, if you're only aiming for a moderate overclock or even keep it stock, most of these options are really a waste when the CPU limit isn't a target. There's no need for such premium MBs if not to tweak and have a bigger insurance on PWMs, when a more than capable ASUS P8P67 (REV 3.1) or similar is only about $160, ($170 for a P8P67 Pro SLI capable model, with the Evo priced a bit too closely to a Saber...), so much as a good 650W that will more than suffice for one GPU and a CPU that isn't aiming for the stars. A GTX570/HD6970 instead of a HD6950 (assuming it didn't unlock) will most probably only make a noticeable difference if you push your CPU way further, the exceptions being on lesser ATI friendly games (but even there, there's the 560Ti...). On top of that, the need for a top air cooler will lessen, so you can settle with something that will help you to reduce noise with added efficiency as a bonus - but price here ain't that critical, and the better, the more silent you can keep it. And again, going for a cheap E-IPS monitor like the DELL U2311H from your current TN panel it's like going from rubber domes to mechanical. Even with a less stellar example of an IPS screen, you won't wish to go back to a TN (goodbye to this).
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 00:59:43 by AlleyViper »

Offline EverythingIBM

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« Reply #13 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 00:33:25 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406198
How is this configuration pointlessly expensive? I fail to see the point.

 
You'll get used to "TheSolutor". He's pessimistic and complains about almost everything people write; so don't take it to heart ;)
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #14 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 04:54:22 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;406277
He's pessimistic and complains about almost everything people write;


I call it helping people you call whatever you like.
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #15 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 05:05:49 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406198
How is this configuration pointlessly expensive? I fail to see the point.


What's the point in buying a SB ?

Get a Phenom X6 or wait for Buldozer, get an asrock not an asus, get a 68/69 something vga, and a 4/500W Seasonic power supply.

And spend your money for something that matters like the fanless PSU, A fanless or liquid cooled heatsink, a bigger (or duplicated) SSD and so on...
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #16 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 06:58:31 »
Quote from: The Solutor;406321
What's the point in buying a SB ?

Get a Phenom X6 or wait for Buldozer, get an asrock not an asus, get a 68/69 something vga, and a 4/500W Seasonic power supply.

And spend your money for something that matters like the fanless PSU, A fanless or liquid cooled heatsink, a bigger (or duplicated) SSD and so on...

I can't disagree with your points enough. This is going to be a gaming computer and you are recommending that I switch to a worse platform and downgrade my graphics card... all in the name of getting a better SSD? How backwards is this thought process? Besides... what kind of self respecting gaming rig has a 400W PSU? Honestly, I'd rather spend an extra bit of cash right now and get a better PSU than having to buy another one further down the road when I feel like throwing in another graphics card.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #17 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 07:28:14 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406343
I can't disagree with your points enough. This is going to be a gaming computer and you are recommending that I switch to a worse platform and downgrade my graphics card...


I recommend to build a powerful PC w/o wasting resource in the search of the absolute and unneeded power.  Because this is both my work and my passion.

Excluding crysis and few other games all the actual pc games are crap console transposition so even a mid range VGA and a mid range CPU are more than enough to play anything at human resolutions.

Quote
Besides... what kind of self respecting gaming rig has a 400W PSU?


Maybe one good in some maths ?

Quote
Honestly, I'd rather spend an extra bit of cash right now and get a better PSU than having to buy another one further down the road when I feel like throwing in another graphics card.


Sorry but a seasonic x400 or x460 are likely the best PSU available and they are fanless, the models above 500W are exactly the same design with a termoistatic fan added.

And they are more expensive than the one you considered for a reason. True performance V.S. amazing numbers.
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Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #18 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 10:18:52 »
The Solutor I perfectly understand and subscribe to your point to view, except some concessions related to overclock needs.
I usually build midstream computers for me and friends to overclock, and usually AMD based due way better performance/price, coupled with the cheapest and more naked board I can find based on the better chipset because these are almost always better polished at bios and PWM level (It's very easy to blow MBs with an overclocked X6 if they're not up to par). I have a Dragon platform (790FX,4890OC/955BE@3.8) built 2 years ago when AM3 came out, and unless I want to max out everything at 1080p, it's still more than enough for mid/high, and I don't feel any urge to upgrade at least until FM2 is mature.

If this user really wants to spend to much, sometimes it's better to point what will work without a noticeable difference for a smaller amount, than offering a stepped down platform that he might not be prone to accept. This is a forum were people already spend obscene amounts on keyboards, so you never know the mindset of this user. If this was posted at XtremeSystems I'd scream even at some choices I suggested (as a regular at the AMD forum :p), which are still in the bragging realm for a gaming PC, albeit a slightly more value conscious.
Arguably, the best gaming CPU for performance/ratio is a simple C3 955BE x4 for only $120 or a 1055T X6 for a tad more, coupled with a good motherboard like a MSI 990FXA-GD65, GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 or a full featured ASRock 990FX Extreme4 both only with the intent to overclock for about $160, or a GIGABYTE GA-990XA-UD3 for $135 that has a proven PWM if so many PCI-E lanes aren't really needed for crossfire/SLI. In games such as SC2, current AMD CPUs yield almost -50% fps vs a SB, it's not only Crysis. Lower clocked X6 offer less than stellar numbers stock. These AM3+ boards will accept a new Buldozer (until socket FM2 is out), be able to push that x4 to ~4.0GHz where it shines and keeps it's ground to a mid-clocked i5 760 or i7 920 (games only!), and are able to accept two graphics cards without any bandwidth limit. Grab an HD6950, unlock it and call it a day, and even if it doesn't, it's already a winner. Top tier Air will be needed, and this solutions will be better and cheaper than affordable water like the Corsair top H series, either in noise and performance because the later will still require push+pull.

On PSUs, a 570GTX grade GPU can push alone near 220W stock (with >30W+ when overclocked) so much as a X6 can near the 200W realm alone (as a well pushed SB will). A 500W can be well stressed in such system, and a step up might be required to keep it cooler and tone down fan levels. When Guru3D reviewed the GTX570, in SLI (which this user still seems interested), the total wattage for a mildly overclocked x58 based PC was 578W, and that's were the realm of 750W PSUs starts making sense. A single 570 fared about 410W total in the same setup, so a 500W can be about the minimum to be safe if the user wishes to fool around, both on PSU load and it's fan noise. Is this level of performance and required overhead for bragging rights? Of course, unless for playing computer games professionally or being a sponsored overclocker. Even with dual card setups, the best price/performance vs a single card like the GTX570 it's to pair some fresh 6850/70s or GTX560 (external exhaust versions preferred!) if the games intended to play scale well and there's ANY need for it.

Quote from: harrison;406363
You mentioned the need for a air HSF setup, my personal preference is notcua or xigmatek.  The Noctua NH-D14 is one of the strongest setups out there right now, but it's price deffinately pushes the boundries of an air-cooled setup at 85USD.


The TR Silver Arrow has about the same performance if not better, less noisy, and costs less. Still, these dual tower coolers can be a PITA due to covered memory slots, so a more traditional solution might be worth the loss of a couple of degrees.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 10:43:59 by AlleyViper »

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #19 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 10:31:01 »
Quote from: harrison;406363
You mentioned the need for a air HSF setup, my personal preference is notcua or xigmatek.  The Noctua NH-D14 is one of the strongest setups out there right now, but it's price deffinately pushes the boundries of an air-cooled setup at 85USD.

The TR Silver Arrow has about the same performance if not better, less noisy, and costs less. Still, these dual tower coolers can be a PITA due to covered memory slots, so a more traditional solution might be worth the loss of a couple of degrees.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #20 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:00:13 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;406379
The Solutor I perfectly understand and subscribe to your point to view, except some concessions related to overclock needs.
I usually build midstream computers for me and friends to overclock, and usually AMD based due way better performance/price, coupled with the cheapest and more naked board I can find based on the better chipset because these are almost always better polished at bios and PWM level (It's very easy to blow MBs with an overclocked X6 if they're not up to par). I have a Dragon platform (790FX,4890OC/955BE@3.8) built 2 years ago when AM3 came out, and unless I want to max out everything at 1080p, it's still more than enough for mid/high, and I don't feel any urge to upgrade at least until FM2 is mature.


More or less we are on the same wavelenght.

BTW speaking about overclock, frankly nowadays is more a technological exercise than a real need, the times when  a cheap celeron mendochino was able to uniliate a 6x priced PIII are gone forever.

And the cpu power even a mid tier one is not only enough to do practically everything, for the vast majotity of the users an overclocked CPU is completely indistinguishable from a stock one, especially speaking about gaming where the difference is made mainly by the GPU.

Quote
This is a forum were people already spend obscene amounts on keyboards


Indeed I've  criticized some choiches about pointlessly overpriced keyboards. but at leas a keyboard is "forever" while 200MHz more on the cpu side are just for six months.

Money spent on monitors, mice, keyboards and even a good case or PSU are surely better spent than the ones wasted on the top of the line CPU.

Quote
Arguably, the best gaming CPU for performance/ratio is a simple C3 955BE x4 for only $120 or a 1055T X6 for a tad more


Indeed a 1055T CPU what powers my actual PC.

Quote
On PSUs, a 570GTX grade GPU can push alone near 220W stock


This is enough to have some doubts about the GPU choiche, whatever all depends on ho Watts are measured.

A real 500W PSU is more than enough to power any single GPU configuration, and more important a PSU that works atound the 80/85% of its rating works on the best efficiency condition.

Using an 850W PSU loaded only for 350W means further waste of heat and electricity.

Quote
Of course, unless for playing computer games professional or being a sponsored overclocker. Even with dual card setups, the best price/performance vs a single card like the GTX570 it's to pair some fresh 6850/70s or GTX560 (external exhaust versions preferred!) if the games intended to play scale well and there's ANY need for it.


Of course.
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Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #21 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:02:42 »
Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot that you can clip the fan slightly higher than default with that cooler. Googling around, the Silver Arrow is way a tighter fit with ripjaws, but seems to work too. Still, both will struggle with some popular tall corsair sticks.
I'm more used to AM3 were slots are very close to CPU socket, and in these platforms, both of these dual tower coolers will cover the first pair of slots, it's not only the fan, so you can't remove sticks without pulling your cooler out too. That's why the Archon, or other preferred 12cm towers can be a better option than a Silver Arrow/NH-D14 to avoid the cooler directly over slots.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #22 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:04:40 »
Quote from: ripster;406383
I'm an American Consumer, not an Italian.


Exactly.

I haven't wrote it, but this is essentially the truth.

Just don't ask why California is one of the places with the richest companies in the world, and at the same time one of the state with higher debts.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #23 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:10:33 »
Quote
I'm more used to AM3 were slots are very close to CPU socket, and in these platforms, both of these dual tower coolers will cover the first pair of slots, it's not only the fan, so you can't remove sticks without pulling your cooler out too. That's why the Archon, or other preferred 12cm towers can be a better option than a Silver Arrow/NH-D14 to avoid the cooler directly over slots.


I'm using a scythe orochi, is relatively not expensive an left enough room to replace the memory sticks w/o removing it, and (at least on the amd sockets) it use the stock heatsink retainer, which is another huge advantage.

Obviously it keep my X6 fresh w/o any need of fan (my pc is completely fanless/silent).
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Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #24 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:12:27 »
Silver Arrow or Noctua DH14?

Offline wupi

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« Reply #25 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:32:13 »
Silver Arrow is betterand cheaper then the noctua.

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #26 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 11:42:00 »
Quote from: ripster;406400
First you have to answer the keyboard question.  What are you getting?

I already have a Filco Ninja with brown switches. It's sex at my fingertips.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #27 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 13:45:02 »
Quote
I'm a big Thermalright fan


So you`re the transparent thing on the left ? :biggrin:
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Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #28 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 13:54:46 »
I think I'm going to get the Venomous X with a Sanyo Denki fan and some Shin Etsu TIM.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #29 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 13:57:40 »
Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406474
I think I'm going to get the Venomous X with a Sanyo Denki fan and some Shin Etsu TIM.


There's a bunch of newcomers lately.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/

Some of them are effective, some are also expensive so may fit your needs.
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline csm725

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« Reply #30 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 14:30:46 »
Quote from: The Solutor;406321
What's the point in buying a SB ?

Get a Phenom X6 or wait for Buldozer, get an asrock not an asus, get a 68/69 something vga, and a 4/500W Seasonic power supply.

And spend your money for something that matters like the fanless PSU, A fanless or liquid cooled heatsink, a bigger (or duplicated) SSD and so on...
Shut up! Please!
You do NOT know what you're saying!
SB is great, please do yourself a favor and ignore Solutor.

NHD14 is easier to find than SA, but SA does better in some configs. You'll find more help/advice for the D14's though, for example the best up is:
Fin 1 <- 140mm <- Fin2 <- 120mm
(Push/Push/Pull)

SB is a great platform. I do recommend the modular Seasonic X650 in terms of PSU. Also an ASUS/MSI 570. The reference models (EVGA/Galaxy/PNY/etc) have issues with overheating (read: exploding) VRM's.

In terms of TIM, Arctic Silver 5, Shin Etzu, and even the Noctua TIM are all great. Toothpaste does well too but doesn't last (yes I am serious).
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 14:33:46 by csm725 »

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #31 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 14:48:38 »
Quote from: csm725;406498
Shut up! Please!
You do NOT know what you're saying!


Hahahahahahahahhahahahahhaha.

Are you an Intel shareholder, or just a plain fanboy ?

Quote
I do recommend the modular Seasonic X650 in terms of PSU.


Which is just a less powerful version than the X400/X460 I suggested before.

Try to understand something before giving random suggestions.
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Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #32 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 15:01:57 »
Quote from: ripster;406506
Careful.  iMav works for Intel now and is probably a shareholder.

 
I joked about the windows mobile crappyness, with the world director of Microsoft's WM division, or with a Marchionne's deputy about Fiat (and Chrysler) cars.

iMav can't be a a worst task :tongue1:.
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Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #33 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 15:05:47 »
Quote from: ripster;406455

I'm a big Thermalright fan, just their fan clips suck.  So I use cable ties.


OT: Later models as the Venomous X have vastly improved over the TRUE on that matter, adding decent support for two pairs of clips. I run a tamed S-Flex G P+P TRUE Black Rev.A (plus later rev.B AM3 BTK, as the TRUE Rev.C wasn't out yet), which actually came with two pairs of clips but it simply wasn't designed from the start to put them as instructed. The second pair will flimsily seat in the middle notches, instead of having holes to go into like the first set. Some people just prefer to stick them between the fins to avoid this major nuisance.

The Solutor, sometimes using a proprietary and sturdier mount is a good advantage, specially with such overweight coolers where mount pressure suffers. The AM3 clip on mount is very practical, but the intel is awful to lock in a cramped space. Months ago I recommended a nice Scythe YASYA cooler to a friend (only 35€ w/ fan) which used the default Intel mount, but now he wishes to kill me after having to dismount it a couple of times.

For the OP, I'm very partial to a S-Flex F for use in a 12cm pipe tower as the TR V-X. Despite medium speed and decent static pressure, they are almost inaudible in a case that is not heavily optimized for silence, and still quite capable for overclock and easily bearable on pairs (being a TRUE favorite at the time).

Nowadays do yourself a favor and forget older thermal paste that requires curing time. AS5 and Ceramique are still very competent, but crack when dried (moving PCs around if mount pressure isn't very strong) losing efficiency in the long term. Something in the lines of OCZ Freezer, AC MX-2/3 (or Noctua branded versions) is way easier to apply, are non conductive and as effective or better than AS5 while easier to clean any mess.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 15:08:31 by AlleyViper »

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #34 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 15:10:40 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;406516

The Solutor, sometimes using a proprietary and sturdier mount is a good advantage, specially with such overweight coolers where mount pressure suffers. The AM3 clip on mount is very practical, but the intel is awful to lock in a cramped space.


Indeed this is another reason to buy a true AMD64 over a compatible one.

Btw the Orochi comes with a proprietary mount for the AMD platform too, I just don't use it because the stock one is more than enough.
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Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #35 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 19:22:16 »
The Solutor,
I guess it mostly depends on the quality of the MB provided backplate, it's best to avoid plastic ones like the plague with other than a stock cooler. In my setup holding a 2 fan TRUE, even the one that came with the MB (regular reference LOTES stuff) and TR provided plates, both similarly thick metal, bend slightly after tightening the screws and it gets noticeable after some hours.

OP,
On current memory selection and keeping it cheap, you could also chose F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL for only $5 more. For a little more OC headroom or direct profile use, and you'll at least be able to tighten timings a bit at stock 1333. Gains are minimal, but for $5 you have more options. You've also chosen a more featured M4 (usb to sata cable etc), the regular package is about $20 less.
Just noticed you changed your MB to a Z68 UD3, if you don't need the Z68 advantages over a P67 (most important being the capability to use integrated cpu graphics and faster video transcoding, plus SSD caching for mechanical drives which isn't what that SSD is for), the regular P67 UD3 costs $25 less.
Take special note on the advice given for the brand of your GTX570, blowing reference top nvidia cards are a reality.
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 19:26:30 by AlleyViper »

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #36 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 19:26:52 »
The Solutor,
I guess it mostly depends on the quality of the MB provided backplate, it's best to avoid plastic ones like the plague with other than a stock cooler. In my setup holding a 2 fan TRUE, even the one that came with the MB (regular reference LOTES stuff) and TR provided plates, both similarly thick metal, bend slightly after tightening the screws and it gets noticeable after some hours.

OP,
On current memory selection and keeping it cheap, you could also chose F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL for only $5 more. For a little more OC headroom or direct profile use, and you'll at least be able to tighten timings a bit at stock 1333. Gains are minimal, but for $5 you have more options. You've also chosen a more featured M4 (usb to sata cable etc), the regular package is about $20 less.
Just noticed you changed your MB to a Z68 UD3, if you don't need the Z68 advantages over a P67 (most important being the capability to use integrated cpu graphics and faster video transcoding, plus SSD caching for mechanical drives which isn't what that SSD is for), the regular P67 UD3 costs $25 less.
Take special note on the advice given for the brand of your GTX570, blowing reference top nvidia cards are a reality.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #37 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 19:47:44 »
Quote
I guess it mostly depends on the quality of the MB provided backplate


Obviously the backplate matters, but usually flimsy ones are found on very first price boards or in mini/micro ATX boards meant clearly for office or HTPC use.

Shythe heatsinks are also nice because the pressure is high but not pointlessly high like in some other brands.
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #38 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 20:02:27 »
Quote from: The Solutor;406650
Obviously the backplate matters, but usually flimsy ones are found on very first price boards or in mini/micro ATX boards meant clearly for office or HTPC use.

Shythe heatsinks are also nice because the pressure is high but not pointlessly high like in some other brands.

I guess that was mostly due to market pressure, given so many coin/gasket mods to increase it. Fortunately some permit to adjust it with a screw like the TR VX.
On the other hand, have you noticed the newer split AM3+ upper retentions that some top models brag about (for better airflow)? These seem a step backward for beefier coolers like yours without resorting to custom stuff.

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #39 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 21:48:32 »
Alright everyone, I've taken a lot of your advice and I've released an updated version of my config:

Anything I should change? I'm worried about some of the comments concerning exploding GTX 570s and I'm currently confused as to what a good motherboard is.

Power Supply -      SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold            $139.99      
Case -         Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T   $169.99      
SSD -          Crucial M4 128GB                $206.99      
Heatsink -       Thermalright Silver Arrow             $82.99      http://www.frozencpu.com
TIM -          Shin-Etsu X23-7783D                 $3.99      http://www.frozencpu.com
RAM -          G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB DDR3 1600          $54.99      
Graphics Card -    EVGA GeForce GTX 570               $319.99      
Processor -       Intel Core i5-2500K               $219.99

TOTAL: $1198.92 (excluding motherboard and monitor)   

Are exploding GTX 570s something to worry about? I'm not 100% sold on the benefits of IPS panels and I'm still moderately confused about motherboard options...
« Last Edit: Sun, 28 August 2011, 21:50:46 by KeyboardsAreCool »

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #40 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 21:51:54 »
Updated OP to reflect the changes I've made using nearly everyone's advice.

Quote from: KeyboardsAreCool;406027
My current system:

AMD Athlon 6400+ X2 3.2GHz
512MB 4870 (underclocked as far as possible)
2GB DDR2 800MHz
750W PSU
1440x900 Monitor
1 TB HDD

Should I upgrade now or wait for Intel's new 2011 socket? My budget is around $1500 maximum and I definitely don't want to buy tech that is about to be shelved in 3 months time.

If I were to upgrade I've theorized the following system; please let me know of things that could be changed for the better.
      
Power Supply -      SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold            $139.99      
Case -         Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T   $169.99      
SSD -          Crucial M4 128GB                $206.99      
Heatsink -       Thermalright Silver Arrow             $82.99      http://www.frozencpu.com
TIM -          Shin-Etsu X23-7783D                 $3.99      http://www.frozencpu.com
RAM -          G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB DDR3 1600          $54.99      
Graphics Card -    EVGA GeForce GTX 570               $319.99      
Processor -       Intel Core i5-2500K               $219.99   

TOTAL: $1198.92 (excluding motherboard and monitor)   

Are exploding GTX 570s something to worry about? I'm not 100% sold on the benefits of IPS panels and I'm still moderately confused about motherboard options...

Also, I plan on using my computer primarily to play games such as Starcraft II, CS:GO (when released),  Deus Ex, Crysis 1&2 as well as any other future game release that suits my fancy (maybe even the new Modern Warfare :P).

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #41 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 21:53:46 »
Updated OP to reflect the changes I've made using nearly everyone's advice.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 August 2011, 09:21:39 by KeyboardsAreCool »

Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #42 on: Sun, 28 August 2011, 23:10:49 »
On the 570 matter, check some threads like this. I'm not into it, so you'd better draw your conclusions and some tips have already been given a few pages back. Looking at it quickly, cards with a beefier VRM section are less prone to die from overvolting or disabling power limit.

For MBs I've already gave you some tips, it all depends on the features you want. Start deciding between P67 and Z68, you have a great choice of boards depending on which features you want, can't comment on these as I don't use any. Articles like this might help to make up your mind. But unless you'll have use for the new Z68 features, chances are that a P67 could be cheaper and offer the same.
You'll have vanilla P67s supporting only Crossfire like the ASUS P8P67 (REV 3.1) or GA-P67A-UD3P-B3, P67A-G45 (B3) then slightly more expensive versions that also support SLI like the P8P67 PRO (REV 3.1), GA-P67A-UD4-B3 and P67A-GD65(B3) (plus GD53/55 less equiped) wich should the best price/performance range. Bellow those there are budget models like the P67A-C43 (B3), P8P67 LE and GA-P67X-UD3-B3, but these should be avoided as they have a weaker power section (in the lines of 4+1 instead of 12+2 for Asus) and price difference doesn't justify that loss to match with a 2500K. Over the vanilla and SLI models, you'll have Evo's, UD5, GD80 etc with extra features such as more usb and sata ports that you might or not want, and some along the way will start to offer an even beefier power section with more phases like the UD5 does over UD4 (20vs12). Btw, MSI seems to offer less power phases like Asus or Giga at the same price, but the real returns on this matter are highly discussable except when components are bad from the start. The vanilla 12+2s are already proven to take you to the limit of that CPU, so after some point it's only marketing talk. This will be similar with sister Z68 based boards and other brands that follow the same name scheme, such as "P8Z68-V Pro". Brands have tables to make this comparison easier among these lines.

For that Deluxe, GD80, UD7 for other brands in the same bracket which are the fully featured models over the base ones I've pointed, you should check if the extra features and stronger power section for the most part are worth it (Deluxe will have 16+2, UD7 24, GD80 12 vs 6+2 for a GD65). The Sabertooth is sort of a separate product line, probably less featured but more overclocking/gamer oriented bragging sturdier components. At first sight, the power section has a different approach (8+2, but this can mean nothing depending on component selection, having more in common with the 11 phase Maximus), lack 2nd LAN and a third 16x length slot, has 2 extra USB ports. Given the slight price difference, the Deluxe might be a better deal, but the question you might ask yourself is if it offers you anything more than the Pro to justify a $50 premium.
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 August 2011, 10:22:55 by AlleyViper »

Offline Mazora

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« Reply #43 on: Mon, 29 August 2011, 08:14:41 »
with my i5 + gtx570 setup, I manage to pull 120hz (and more) playing starcraft II. My monitor is the 120hz BenQ xl2410 and it feels awesome to play sc2 @ 120 frame per second...

Oh and I lower SC2 graphics to the bottom in order to reach high fps (even in big battles)
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Offline D-EJ915

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« Reply #44 on: Tue, 30 August 2011, 21:40:44 »
Quote from: ripster;406208
You guys keep talking him down and he'll never  beat my benchmarks.
Ran this just now? http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/473217 ?

Offline csm725

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« Reply #45 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 02:17:00 »
PLEASE - do not listen to Solutor.
How can a X650 be WEAKER than the older, weaker platform X460? I know 10x more about parts than you do, please get out.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #46 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 04:15:13 »
Quote
How can a X650 be WEAKER than the older


 :blah:

Maybe because a fan ?
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Offline AlleyViper

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« Reply #47 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 09:21:20 »
A $100 over budget? It's peanuts for a start, but why buy another TP tube if that Noctua Cooler comes already with NT-H1? As far as I remember, it performed very similarly to AC MX-2 - google for it. Any decent gains over that are more related to good mounting and spread technique than anything. There go $5.
Then again, the difference between a P8P67 Deluxe and Pro is only the extra NIC on top of the Intel, and 16+2 phases vs 12+2 phases. $50. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 12+2 is already enough to aim near 5GHz (provided the CPU would even hold). As you get near the limit of your CPU, power draw increases a lot as speed goes up. It's a waste to keep such CPU way over mid 4.XGHz for gaming when GPU is the bottleneck.
And now, for The Solutor and csm725 to yell at me, to shave another $30 I'd go instead with a PC P&C Silencer MkII 750W. It's not Gold 80 but Silver, has a very beefy 62a 12V line to hold a SLI, 7 year warranty. I'm not arguing that a X650 is one of the top PSUs money can buy, this is only for budget's sake. The PC P&PC or Corsair 650W model would be more of a step down vs the current X650 for further ~$20 less, more than enough for the current system but less SLI proof (IF CPU and both cards are overclocked, which alone draws close to 600W).
$85 less in total
I believe choosing any of the options above from a performance POV is preferable for you to downgrading to a (more than capable) HD6950 for less ~$60, or losing the 128GB to a slower near boot only 64GB which wouldn't help you with game level loading as much. Now for sacrificing a little GPU power for an IPS panel that could last you more than most of this setup, that's a completely different story :p, but you already told you're not interested in this new jump.
I guess I'll be out of this thread, since I haven't much more to offer as I'm becoming very repetitive :). Good luck with your build!

Offline KeyboardsAreCool

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« Reply #48 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 16:17:26 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;408009
A $100 over budget? It's peanuts for a start, but why buy another TP tube if that Noctua Cooler comes already with NT-H1? As far as I remember, it performed very similarly to AC MX-2 - google for it. Any decent gains over that are more related to good mounting and spread technique than anything. There go $5.
Then again, the difference between a P8P67 Deluxe and Pro is only the extra NIC on top of the Intel, and 16+2 phases vs 12+2 phases. $50. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 12+2 is already enough to aim near 5GHz (provided the CPU would even hold). As you get near the limit of your CPU, power draw increases a lot as speed goes up. It's a waste to keep such CPU way over mid 4.XGHz for gaming when GPU is the bottleneck.
And now, for The Solutor and csm725 to yell at me, to shave another $30 I'd go instead with a PC P&C Silencer MkII 750W. It's not Gold 80 but Silver, has a very beefy 62a 12V line to hold a SLI, 7 year warranty. I'm not arguing that a X650 is one of the top PSUs money can buy, this is only for budget's sake. The PC P&PC or Corsair 650W model would be more of a step down vs the current X650 for further ~$20 less, more than enough for the current system but less SLI proof (IF CPU and both cards are overclocked, which alone draws close to 600W).
$85 less in total
I believe choosing any of the options above from a performance POV is preferable for you to downgrading to a (more than capable) HD6950 for less ~$60, or losing the 128GB to a slower near boot only 64GB which wouldn't help you with game level loading as much. Now for sacrificing a little GPU power for an IPS panel that could last you more than most of this setup, that's a completely different story :p, but you already told you're not interested in this new jump.
I guess I'll be out of this thread, since I haven't much more to offer as I'm becoming very repetitive :). Good luck with your build!

Thank you for all the invaluable information you have given me. Without your input this thread would have definitely spiraled out of control and crumbled in the grasp of The Solutor. I admire your computer hardware knowledge and hope to use the tips you have given me to the fullest extent possible.

Offline The Solutor

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« Reply #49 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 16:26:07 »
Now what's the next move ?
An intercontinental ballistic missile to catch a colibry ?:lol:
The problem with quotes on the Internet is you never know if they are true  (Abraham Lincoln)