Most Duarable switch.

[kwantz]

What switch is believed to be the most durable switch? I mean durable as in which switch over years of wear and tear would come out to be the longest lasting?
I know there are the tried and true switches that have been around forever now. But what about the newer switches, do you think they will be able to outlast the old school switches?

[Pylon]

I'm pretty sure capacitive buckling springs, or maybe Topre.

[False_Dmitry_II]

There is no way anything recent would outlast something from back then. They simply spent much more on keyboards back in the 80s. But specifically switches and not necessarily the boards themselves it would have to be buckling springs. I don't think anything else can come close. There are people who have been typing on their exact same boards since the day they bought them when the computers that came with them came out in the 80s.

I think topres only get a mention because if you take 'lasting' to mean 'still actuates' I can see how capacitive would win over a membrane; or perhaps even direct contact like cherry switches. I've never typed on one and have no idea how the rubber part of them would hold up over the scale of time we're talking about.

ALPS probably wouldn't be pleasant assuming all allegations about them are correct instead of assuming that generally the owners of those boards before we get them used (that suck) are just terrible people.

Expanding out to not just include regular buyable keyboards, probably the hall effect ones. Should outlast buckling springs, since that's why they exist. I think we're now talking to the point where none of us will care. Unless living forever happens first, but that's a whole other discussion.

[Arc'xer]

You can also put in hall-effect(magnetic) switches up there as well like Topre, Buckling Spring, and Beam spring(Capacitive) in durability.

[Daniel Beaver]

Buckling spring switches of all kinds are tried-and-true.

[ZeDestructor]

How about the different Cherry switches?  would think the blacks and reds would have some pretty good durability if the base keyboard is upto scratch..

[hella]

Buckling spring & topre switches.

Topre are better for chemical resistance as the rubber dome fully covers the capacitative switch.  It's more environmentally resillient than the buckling spring, especially if you work in a toxic place, or even a rough environment like a Tabasco factory, which has vinegar fumes in the air everywhere which would easily oxidize any metal components.

Buckling springs will last longer under most conditions.  Capacitative switches, by nature fire to anything that touches that is electrically conductive.  If certain foreign particles get under the bubble (i.e. when the rubber dome breaks) it'll easily accidentally fire.

The membrane sheet on buckling springs will outlast the rubber domes on topres with normal use.  Of course you will find some bad apples for both here and there but

[Tony]

I am using a Compaq MX 11800 dated 1987 or so at home and it's still working perfectly. All other modern mechanical keyboards are that durable, most of them are killed a bit prematurely by orange juice or coffee.

[The Solutor]

What switch is believed to be the most durable switch? I mean durable as in which switch over years of wear and tear would come out to be the longest lasting?
I know there are the tried and true switches that have been around forever now. But what about the newer switches, do you think they will be able to outlast the old school switches?

Aside the (electronic sensors like the capacitive or hall effect ones) the most reliable and durable electrical switches are the reed relays (aka reed contacts/reed switches).



They are actuated magnetically, and are working in an oxygen free atmosphere. They are also independent from the mechanical actuation force.

So even the cheapest ones are rated for more than 10M of operations.

They emit also a nice subtle click when actuated.

It's just incredible that there isn't a commercial keyboard based on them.

[Findecanor]

Individual switches have a lot going for them by being replaceable. If the membrane on a IBM Model M is broken (from a spillage, spark or other), then you will have to get an entirely new keyboard. If a Cherry MX switch is broken, then you can replace it (or parts of it) from the numeric key pad.

What I think is the worst thing with Cherry switches is that the bumps on the sliders are slowly ground down with use and the tactile feel diminishes. From what I have read so far, I get the feeling that the more tactile the switch, the faster this happens.

[The Solutor]

Individual switches have a lot going for them by being replaceable. If the membrane on a IBM Model M is broken, you will have to get an entirely new keyboard.

If the membrane on a model M is broken you have to order one and replace it.

The practice is uncommon on mainstream RD just because the whole keyboard cost less than the repair.

[fossala]

Why are people saying topre? I thought they have 30 million presses where as cherry has 50 million.

[The Solutor]

Why are people saying topre? I thought they have 30 million presses where as cherry has 50 million.

The cherry data are clearly overrated, but even a topre will likely become unusable well before the 30M of keystrokes, because the friction and the dome mushiness.

[woody]

Aside the (electronic sensors like the capacitive or hall effect ones) the most reliable and durable electrical switches are the reed relays (aka reed contacts/reed switches).

Show Image

I had good mileage (read: few years) on keyboard with such switches. Funny thing is I had to repair one key, IIRC the reed contact needed replacement.
Had a nice subtle click.

[Izza]

*stuff about reed switches*

Someone should do it. I would think modifying a foam and foil board would be the easiest to start with. Could replace the foam/foil with magnets.

[The Solutor]

Funny thing is I had to repair one key

Statistic works against any discrete switch, no matter how god they are, when you have 100+ of them you have more failure probability than when you have to deal with a mambrane which is a single piece.

Exactly as happen elsewhere.

A jbod array made with six expensive HDDs, is  more failure prone than a single cheap HDD.

[The Solutor]

Someone should do it. I would think modifying a foam and foil board would be the easiest to start with. Could replace the foam/foil with magnets.

Sooner or later I'll do it.

The main problem (aside the laziness :lol:) is the cost for an hobbyst.

A company buy them in quantities and will pay them few cents per switch, a single user have to spend way more money.

[elef]

I hardly think that the rubber domes in a topre can last anywhere near as long as a Model M. Rubber ages. After ten years and/or X million keypresses, it's going to deteriorate and/or die.

[The Solutor]

I hardly think that the rubber domes in a topre can last anywhere near as long as a Model M. Rubber ages. After ten years and/or X million keypresses, it's going to deteriorate and/or die.

I think no one here has tested a topre board for enough time to give a decent reply.

BTW the Olivetti boards contemporary to the model Ms are as durable, if not more durable, as the IBM ones.

All depends on the plastic choose, the tolerances, and in the effectiveness of the sleeve/plunger/stem/dome design

[ZeDestructor]

Well, I guess we're on the forefront on testing that then

Any IBM Model M users care to say how long they've had theirs in active service?

Model M fans/enthusiasts/owners: Where can I get a membrane for an IBM Model M2? I have one lying around at home that has dead circuitry and quite corroded membrane (yay humidity)

[The Solutor]

Where can I get a membrane for an IBM Model M2? I have one lying around at home that has dead circuitry and quite corroded membrane (yay humidity)

Send a PM to ASCAII, maybe he have some donor board left.

[HaaTa]

Honeywell Microswitch (Hall Effect)

I have a bunch of magnetic reed keyboard switches, at least one of them was DOA. Mind you they are quite old (new old stock).

[itlnstln]

Honeywell Microswitch (Hall Effect)

I have a bunch of magnetic reed keyboard switches, at least one of them was DOA. Mind you they are quite old (new old stock).

How do those Hall Effect switches feel?

[tribbe]

Are there any experiences how long it takes to grind down blue/brown/... cherry bumps/stems until the tactility gets almost lost? Let's base the assumptions on the example of an average usage, e.g. playing some games, typing some pages per day: a few months, a couple of years, some more years of normal use?

Thx guys.

Btw. ripster & soluter - I was following you here (and on ocn & deskthority). You guys are awesome in your own ways.

[tribbe]

Are there any experiences how long it takes to grind down blue/brown/... cherry bumps/stems until the tactility gets almost lost? Let's base the assumptions on the example of an average usage, e.g. playing some games, typing some pages per day.
A few months, a couple of years, some more years of normal use?

Thx guys.

Btw. ripster & soluter - I was following you here (and on ocn & deskthority). You guys are awesome in your own ways.

[The Solutor]

Are there any experiences how long it takes to grind down blue/brown/... cherry bumps/stems until the tactility gets almost lost?

I believe GH is not the better place to ask this question as most of the users are used to rotate many keyboards, btw I think that you loose a noticeable part of the tactility on the first months of usage, the it will decrease slowly in some years.

You guys are awesome in your own ways.

Yes he speak a better English, I have a better brain :lol:. I've purposed  a joint venture but he still haven't replied.

[tribbe]

I am definitely more awesome than The Solutor.

My answers are correct.

And the tactility getting "lost" is a silly measure.  It never goes linear.  Even a blue Cherry MX feels a bit different in a week of use after the box is opened.

Thank you.

I'd never question that. I'm also very impressed with the work you've done here (esp. wiki). I'd consider myself a fan of yours. ^^

One week's very fast, though. At least there are some keys almost unused on most keyboards - so there will always be 1-2 keys that won't change their tactility for reasons concerning later comparision to feel the difference sometimes.

[tribbe]

I believe GH is not the better place to ask this question as most of the users are used to rotate many keyboards, btw I think that you loose a noticeable part of the tactility on the first months of usage, the it will decrease slowly in some years.

Yes he speak a better English, I have a better brain :lol:. I've purposed  a joint venture but he still haven't replied.

Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it very much. Let's hope ripster's still considering a joint venture. But I think you would have to accept that ripster would like to be the "primus inter pares".

Back in the Day I had fans and lego lovers.

Now they are all at OCN.

1 week is enough to break in a Blue Cherry usually.

I type a lot though.  Click on my Avatar Profile to see my post count.

That's sad @ changing times & OCN. I got an impression reading hundreds of threads here and there. Is there any recap about the issues that lead to that migration etc.? Btw. I liked the Lego I saw.

Thanks again for the impression on the "decay" of the switch. Yah you're some sick typist, baller.

[The Solutor]

But I think you would have to accept that ripster would like to be the "primus inter pares".

Yes we have a joke where Berlusconi did the same with God....

[The Solutor]

Time to change my Avatar descriptors from Italian to Greek!

To do a god job you should move to a nation not discovered by an Italian, not named after another Italian, and possibly in a city not named after a third Italian

Edit: You should also remember that "primus inter pares" is a sentence that came from Italy too

[tribbe]

That's the stuff that my geek-chuckles are made of.

♥ u both, for real.

Don't fight back.

[HaaTa]

How do those Hall Effect switches feel?

Very linear, smoothest I've ever tried. MX Blacks seem like they have sand-paper on the keystems in comparison.

[ch_123]

It's just incredible that there isn't a commercial keyboard based on them.

I believe there were some back in the late 60s/early 70s. Also photoelectric and piezoelectric ones. The market eventually favored capacitive and metal contact switches instead though.

Are there any experiences how long it takes to grind down blue/brown/... cherry bumps/stems until the tactility gets almost lost? Let's base the assumptions on the example of an average usage, e.g. playing some games, typing some pages per day: a few months, a couple of years, some more years of normal use?

I have two 10+ year old Blue Cherry boards that feel very different to what a new Blue Cherry board feels like. It hasn't gone linear, but it feels pretty crap compared to what they should feel like.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Well that tells me that space invaders retain their feel more. Mine all have AT plugs, and it's clear they were used for quite some time. But how much is impossible for me to say.

[The Solutor]

Very linear, smoothest I've ever tried. MX Blacks seem like they have sand-paper on the keystems in comparison.

On the Honeywell site there is an interesting section about microswitches (and sensors)

http://sensing.honeywell.com/1/4/6/5/6/7/index1.shtml