Need a viable replacement for the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical

[NewbieOneKenobi]

does anyone have experience with the A4Tech X748K/X740K or the rebranded version Sharkoon Fireglider? I think the shape comes close to the Intelli Explorer 3.0 from Microsoft. I like the shape and color of it and it is cheap which is a good thing among all those pricy gaming mice. Are there any issues with this mouse, does the sensor cause any problems? I really would like to know.

Yes, I use an X-478K on a Razer Golathius. I've had a great time with it, despite some problems, and basically everything is great except the shape's not good for my hand. This is to say given my palm size (I'm 6'5'' tall and my palm is longer than 8'') precludes being able to palm-grip the mouse comfortably. I still have to curl my hand. On the other hand, the mouse is too big and bulky for a comfortable fingertip grip, while claw grip doesn't really seem to work for me (I probably should try more). But if you have smaller hands than mine, which is practically a given, you should be fine with that mouse. It's basically a ripoff of the older Deathadder. It has the same sensor and roughly the same build. Some guy from Russia has also noticed this: http://itgalaxy.net/a4-tech-x-748k-vs-razer-deathadder/.

Some data: 600, 800, 1200, 1600, 2400, 3200 dpi toggled by a pressable LED under the wheel. Everything above 1600 dpi is interpolated. It's theoretically possible to use any dpi from 1 to 3200 you want and the mouse supposedly has its own memory to save that but I'm not sure everything works properly there (something's forggeting or failing to read the settings in the software). Weight is adjustable—there are 7 tiny weights. All in all, for a ridiculous price like $15 you get a great mouse. Just be careful because at least here there are huge price differences and some shops want double what the others do. Manufacturer website: http://www.x7.cn/en/product.asp?id=40.

[AlleyViper]

That might not be totally correct, the x-738k/x-748k uses an Avago ADNS-3080 (1600dpi) which should be more in line with a MX518. If it suffers from the same prediction, only experience will tell. Even so, it's great value for the money if you don't mind it.
The original DA uses an Avago ADNS-S3668 (1800dpi).

On the matter of shape, check this page.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Sorry, didn't know that. Yeah, the sensor is the one from MX518, not the one from the old DeathAdder, I'm sorry.

What mouse is the first one on the left in this picture: http://blog-imgs-24.fc2.com/n/o/s/nosilverbullet/P1020446.jpg? The X-738-K perhaps? I can't recall ever seeing it and I'd definitely appreciate a normal-shaped A4tech! (Speaking of normal-shaped: http://www.x7.cn/en/product.asp?id=28.)

Back to the OP, though, I've been to the mall again, and checked all the rodents out there. Ended up coming home with the cheapest Logitech, the M90 (couldn't notice any difference with the M100), as it was so pleasant to drag around. So I plugged it in and it was great. Probably some 800 dpi but can't tell (maybe 1000?), traditional shape, very good aim and tracking. I'm just hitting things right. The other thing I considered was MS Optical Mouse 200, at 1000 dpi, but it was less comfortable. Some of the Comfort line MS mice weren't bad, either, you'd basically need to take them in your hand and find out which shape you like.

[AlleyViper]

OT:

Yes, it's a X-738K - same sensor, even cheaper and no dust/grime magnet rubber part. The rear contour looks a lot like their old ball mice, but the whole screams Diamondback.
According to a OCN thread, the MX518 uses the S prefixed ADNS-S3080/E which is probably proprietary, as some Diamondback's ADNS-A3080, while those 4Tech use ADNS-3080 (open source). AFAIK there's no open source version of the DA 3G's ADNS-S3668, but the DA 3.5G's ADNS-S3888 seems very close to the OS ADNS-3090 used on other mice. Firmware might set all of these apart, though.

While you're at it, could you please confirm if there's some pos/neg acceleration at native dpi, noticeable angle snapping (usual on 3080 family), or any way to disable prediction?

In here (PT) you can even find a good old WMO 1.1 for <10€ OEM, for those who can live with 400dpi in the desktop.

[dish]

I use a WMO 1.1a with three 1920x1080 monitors and 6/11 windows sensitivty and no acceleration. You won't find a better mouse if you want something similarly sized, because SteelSeries messed up bad and the Kinzu has positive acceleration and no fourth mouse button.

Logitech has abandoned their MX300/310/G3 line so you don't have a modern version of those as an option either.  The G3 uses the prone to breaking sensor of the G5, I definitely wouldn't risk it.  The MX310 is kind of awkwardly shaped and one of the ugliest mice I've seen.  MX300 has acceleration issues like the MX500 had.  Also, good luck finding most of these.

Razer mice are much like their keyboards. Except they don't have too much competition on mice, so you might be able to find one you like.  There's nothing inherently wrong with razer mice, they just seem to never really get the ergonomics or build quality to feel right and focus too much on gimmicks.

The Xai is actually nice if you like its size and can stomach the price.  

I am mostly sad that the Kinzu has those two design issues, because it would have been the perfect mouse otherwise. Even with those issues it sold a ton, which shows how open that segment of the market is.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

OT:

Yes, it's a X-738K - same sensor, even cheaper and no dust/grime magnet rubber part. The rear contour looks a lot like their old ball mice, but the whole screams Diamondback.
According to a OCN thread, the MX518 uses the S prefixed ADNS-S3080/E which is probably proprietary, as some Diamondback's ADNS-A3080, while those 4Tech use ADNS-3080 (open source). AFAIK there's no open source version of the DA 3G's ADNS-S3668, but the DA 3.5G's ADNS-S3888 seems very close to the OS ADNS-3090 used on other mice. Firmware might set all of these apart, though.

While you're at it, could you please confirm if there's some pos/neg acceleration at native dpi, noticeable angle snapping (usual on 3080 family), or any way to disable prediction?

In here (PT) you can even find a good old WMO 1.1 for <10€ OEM, for those who can live with 400dpi in the desktop.

Let me see what I can draw in paint. Using 3200 dpi in both cases, which is interpolated. My Windows setting is 6/11, Enhance Pointer Precision is off and registry patch applied to make true 1:1. For the record, I'm not bad at drawing straight lines or circles on paper and can stabilise my hand pretty well (used to take a lot of pictures of court files, sometimes several hundred pictures a day while flipping pages). Moving my hand fast first:

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Now moving it slowly:

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Admittedly, I'm not very proficient at interpreting the results but I think prediction exists. Not sure how to verify positive or negative acceleration.

As for WMO, I could probably find it here via on some auction at Allegro.pl. There's still a number of IE3.0 and IE1.1 mice too, including the SS and Zowie and Legends editions. By the way, is there any difference between those special editions and the normal IE3.0. First thing I'm thinking about, say, more than 400 dpi on any of them?

[AlleyViper]

OT:
Thanks for bothering!
3200 dpi if not perfectly smoothed out by firmware will cause a staircase effect at angles (like some parts of your circles), any reliable test should be done at native 1600dpi where this effect should be much less exaggerated (some cloth pads vs sensors can come into the equation too!). What you're doing at 3200dpi is like setting windows to 8/11 (IIRC).
Still, unless you have a very steady hand, there seems to be angle snapping going on on vertical/horizontal lines because of the way they seem to auto-correct on your fast test. I find it easier to check for this behavior when line width is set to only one pixel, and movements are fast to avoid your own tremors or self adjusting while drawing slow - but then, I don't know if it's the best way to tell it. MX518/G400 users should be more helpful to tell you on how and what extra lines to check for.
Pos/neg acceleration can be checked by moving the mouse very fast on a perfectly horizontal line and do a 360º on your FPS, if it exists, the cursor/reticle will end up inadvertently upper or lower the starting point (a mark on the wall, for example). Those MS mice you pointed out suffer from it noticeably at default 125Hz without patching, of course this is augmented by it's lack of angle snapping and lower dpi.

AFAIK 400dpi sensors are exactly the same on those editions. What changes are details like cable, Teflon feet, case texture and more noticeably rubberized sides depending on model. If you grab a Legends edition for cheap, you might be surprised at it's resale value.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Here's 1600 dpi. For the record, the mouse is fully loaded with additional weights and the replacement sliders (that came as part of the package) are glued on top of the original ways (I like a double layer) and the mousepad is Razer Goliathus Speed Edition (its own page: http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.229378800/parentCategoryID.35208900/categoryId.40946200, comparison of properties like glide and control: http://www.razerzone.com/mousematguide/comparison).

I'm definitely more proficient with the mouse than the average person (over a dozen hours daily in front of the computer, I guess) and I might have a steady hand for some purposes (e.g. taking pictures and I'm not bad at drawing shapes on paper if I concentrate) but I have a diagnosed impairment in my right hand fine motorics and hand-eye coordination to the point I have serious problems writing legibly by hand, so I'm definitely not a calligrapher. I had an impression of being corrected by the mouse as I went but I could be seeing things.

Firstly, very fast speed:

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Secondly, reasonably slow speed (faster than I did with 3200 dpi). The last two vertical lines were drawn with my eyes closed for a measure:

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Unfortunately, I don't play FPS to verify acceleration. The closest thing would be Mass Effect, which probably wouldn't be good here. Any way to test that with RTS or minesweeper or in paint?

Thanks for explanation on the Legends edition. Those details you mention do matter to me. I'm obsessive about cable and I appreciate good sliders. I might just buy that mouse and pull some gimmick with sliders to use less force to move it around the pad despite the 400 dpi.

[AlleyViper]

Some things still look suspicious, horizontal lines and vertical lines in your fast test still seem snapped unless you have perfect control, and on your slower test some circle's (drawn on the lower left) parts are noticeably jagged like a staircase (but they improved a lot from 3200). AFAIK, this could be due to angle snapping, or most probably due to slight pixel skipping on a cloth mat. For the matter, my DA can do way worse than that at some angles with a QcK, it's just not significant on your drawings.

Provided ME hasn't any input engine acceleration problems and uses directinput, it will work too following a popular procedure:
Start by setting a low sensitivity, then start your game. Move your mouse next to an edge of your pad, then place the aim reticule on a well defined point or line cross that is level, so you can define mentally an horizon line and vertical reference for starting/end point. After it's all set, sweep your mouse slowly and perfectly on the horizontal to the other edge of your pad, then finally return as fast as you can to your starting point in the opposite edge. Sliding your mouse over a physical guide should help with more accurate results. In the end, if the reticule is either noticeably upper or lower the starting point (horizontal reference) or movement stopped at half of the way (horizontal), you might be exceeding the maximum mouse acceleration, something than can happen at default 125Hz polling rate without patching on those older MS mice. Now for positive/negative acceleration, it means that when you return fast to your starting point and the same distance was ran physically, the reticule either overshoots it or doesn't reach the starting point (either right or left the vertical reference). Please take human error in account!
The same mouse can behave completely different depending on usb polling and dpi settings.

[Bilbin]

Hope you don't mind I quoted you on CyberGamer, cnt. I couldn't be bothered wording it myself.

http://www.cybergamer.com.au/forums/thread/p4943816#4943816

[cnt]

Play nice! Other than that, I don't mind at all.

A quick update; it's been a few days now of using a 1920*1080 resolution and thus far the IMO is keeping up. I have a DeathAdder here a friend gave me to try so would probably plug that in for a few spins within the next few days, though as it currently stands, I find it unlikely that I would indeed replace my trusty mouse, which makes me feel a bit silly for opening this thread, but oh well, plenty of further discussion going on so I guess it's not all bad!