Author Topic: Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?  (Read 2025 times)

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Offline Quarzac

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 16:55:28 »
Having come off a Model M to a Blackwidow, I'm concerned I'm doing something wrong. With the Model M, I didn't really feel the tactility at all. With the blues, I only feel it on the way up, and then it's a little annoying if I release too slowly. I'm digging the audible feedback to know when the key has been activated, because I probably wouldn't notice otherwise. Am I feeling it, and just not noticing it? Can someone give me some idea as to what the tactility really feels like? Is it because I bottom out most of the time? Just putting this out there. I figure I am probably an isolated case.
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Offline Chobopants

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 16:59:35 »
You didn't feel tactility on a Model M or blues? Do you know what tactility is? I'm so confused as to how this could even happen. It's the distinct click/pop/thwack that happens when the key is halfway pushed down. It's VERY loud and distinct. Just try to type slower and softer I guess? Short of SLAMMING the keys I have no idea how you could not feel it on a Model M especially.
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Offline mbc

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:09:54 »
?? that tactility is loud ??

PS: tactility is that bumb you FEEL (or have to overcome) when pressing the key.
PS2: put on some headphones, turn the music loud, and try to feel when the key triggers...
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:18:30 by mbc »

Offline Softdrink 117

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:35:45 »
Quote from: Quarzac;410594
Can someone give me some idea as to what the tactility really feels like?

That is an extremely difficult thing to describe (and I'm a noob to the whole mechanical keyboard thing, too). But think of it this way: tactility is the 'feel' of the keys as they actuate. It isn't just keys, either-- think about how when you press a mouse button, it feels very distinct. When you press a mouse button, even when blindfolded, you immediately know it's been pressed because of how it feels (unless you have an old and/or crappy mouse in which case this does not apply).

Think of tactility on keyboard keys as similar, but different. It's the same phenomenon-- a kind of physical 'tell' that denotes a keypress-- just taking a different form.

On rubber domes, you have to bottom out to actuate the switch. You get a physical response when the key hits the bottom, but between when you start pushing it down and when it hits bottom there is no other resistance.

I've never typed on a buckling spring board, but they supposedly have a noticeable 'knock' to them when the switch physically buckles halfway through the stroke.  

However, I own and am in love with a KBC Poker, which uses MX Browns without audible feedback. To sum up the tactility in one word I'd have to say it's an interruption. When I push a key down, there is a point at which it suddenly feels a tiny bit different, as if I'm pushing it normally then after a jump it resumes again. It doesn't feel entirely different from the sensation of actually bottoming out, now that I think about it-- it's more like encountering some resistance along the way and brushing past it quickly without stopping.

As an experiment, try pushing a key down REALLY slowly, as slowly as you can possibly manage it. You should feel a sort of bump halfway down, and then smooth motion before hitting the bottom. You're probably just bottoming out too fast/hard/whatever, and so the sensation of the tactile response is occurring almost at the same time as the sensation of bottoming out.
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:38:48 by Softdrink 117 »

Offline Softdrink 117

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:37:37 »
Quote from: mbc;410608

PS2: put on some headphones, turn the music loud, and try to feel when the key triggers...


This.

Offline Chobopants

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 18:41:20 »
Quote from: mbc;410608
?? that tactility is loud ??

PS: tactility is that bumb you FEEL (or have to overcome) when pressing the key.
PS2: put on some headphones, turn the music loud, and try to feel when the key triggers...

Haha, yeah my wording was poor. The sound is what happens when the tactile part of the switch triggers.
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline Clickey

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 20:33:59 »
It is just the feel of non-linear resistance (sudden increase or bump of resistance) while pressing the key. If you are used to rubber domes, you might not notice it as a change, because most rubber domes have tactile feedback too.
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Offline Quarzac

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 20:49:01 »
I'm fairly used to my Model M, as I had been using it for a year and a half before I switched to blues. And I have no trouble feeling the tactility when pressing the keys down slowly. But when I type like a normal person, it doesn't really jump out at me. Maybe I just don't have terribly sensitive fingers. At least it gives me an idea of what switch to try next, since tactility doesn't really affect me like a normal person. It just feels like the keys are giving out, at least with the blues. With the Model M, I made no effort to feel the tactility, and just savored the lovely clicking sound. Perhaps that give is what it is. I suppose I was expecting something a little different, though I probably shouldn't have, coming from a Model M.
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Offline Clickey

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 04 September 2011, 22:35:47 »
I type like a caveman (hit keys very hard), so I don't feel tactility while typing either. People say it is better not to bottom out, but I find using control only slows me down.
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Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 00:15:48 »
You should probably try to stick to heavier switches then. Like clears or white alps.
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Offline Magna224

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 02:18:51 »
Yes try some ALPS switches lol.
If you live in AZ you can try my keyboards. I usually keep plenty of different ALPS and MX and buckling springs.

Offline Clickey

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 02:33:07 »
For me it doesn't matter how hard the switch is, I will always bottom out, and using heavy switches just makes it more uncomfortable. I love my everex because it has the best bottoming out sound. Bottoming out on a softer switch seems to put less stress on my fingers than not bottoming out on a heavier switch, but it could just be the McGuirk effect. Anyone know if bottoming out is bad for your joints?
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Offline ch_123

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 03:59:34 »
If you can't feel tactility on a Model M, either there's something very wrong with the Model M, or you will never feel tactility at all :p

Offline Quarzac

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 10:06:14 »
Quote from: ch_123;410804
If you can't feel tactility on a Model M, either there's something very wrong with the Model M, or you will never feel tactility at all :p
That sounds about right.
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Offline theferenc

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 11:02:50 »
Bottoming out can be quite bad for your joints, yes. That's actually the primary reason I switched away from rubber domes, as slamming my fingers against the backplate of a rubber dome keyboard was immensely painful for me. Short throw scissor switches are the worst for this.

Try this: pretend a kitchen counter is a keyboard, and type on it with normal force and speed. You'll notice pretty quickly that it causes pain. This is a harder form of what you are doing typing on a rubber dome, and only harder because of the rubber dome providing some shock absorbtion.  The principle still applies though, it simply takes longer to manifest.
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Offline BucklingSpring

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 17:54:14 »
Quote from: ch_123;410804
If you can't feel tactility on a Model M, either there's something very wrong with the Model M, or you will never feel tactility at all :p


Tactily challenged... that's cute.
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Offline Chobopants

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 18:45:41 »
Quote from: Quarzac;410664
I'm fairly used to my Model M, as I had been using it for a year and a half before I switched to blues. And I have no trouble feeling the tactility when pressing the keys down slowly. But when I type like a normal person, it doesn't really jump out at me. Maybe I just don't have terribly sensitive fingers. At least it gives me an idea of what switch to try next, since tactility doesn't really affect me like a normal person. It just feels like the keys are giving out, at least with the blues. With the Model M, I made no effort to feel the tactility, and just savored the lovely clicking sound. Perhaps that give is what it is. I suppose I was expecting something a little different, though I probably shouldn't have, coming from a Model M.


Yes, it's the "giving out" feeling that is what the tactility is. If you can get your hands on some reds or blacks you'll probably notice right away that something feels like it's missing.
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline Quarzac

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Am I doing something wrong? Where's the tactility?
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 05 September 2011, 18:48:23 »
Quote from: Chobopants;411100
Yes, it's the "giving out" feeling that is what the tactility is. If you can get your hands on some reds or blacks you'll probably notice right away that something feels like it's missing.
Oh, ok then. Just as an update, I have begun attempting to not bottom out, and while I am not very good at it yet, I am starting to understand why people like the tactility so much. It is pretty nice when I manage not to bottom out.
Risen from the dead for a model F.

Wyse buy colors were GSY for the dark grey, GBA for the light grey, and BBI for the fonts.