Model M Anti-Bolt Mod

[czarek]

Hi guys, I'm wondering if it would actually work. In case of just couple broken rivets, instead of doing full bolt mod, would it be possible to cast some liquid ABS (liquified by acetone) instead of broken rivets to just glue it up?

[jpc]

You can drill out and bolt up only the broken rivets; this is much easier than a full bolt mod. You need most of the same tools and hardware though, save the chisel.

[Mr. Perfect]

I have to wonder why people don't just use self tapping screws. You would have to drill a pilot hole in the plastic, but from there the screw would tap threads into the plastic as it goes. No need to get a bolt straight through to the other side to put a nut on it.  Most of the computer parts and peripherals I've worked on are put together with self tappers. You do have to get the screw back into the first set of threads though, otherwise it will cut out new threads every time it's removed and replaced.

[Mr. Perfect]

The problem with self-tapping screws is that they would apply stress to the plastic which could encourage premature cracking and overall board failure...unless your pilot hole was almost the same size as the screws, in which case they'd probably strip out anyway.

True enough. I hadn't considered what effect the stress could have on decade plus year old plastic. It could get ugly if the self tapper acted like a wedge. The pilot would certainty have to be at least big enough so that only the threads are being forced through the plastic.

[Daniel Beaver]

You can drill out and bolt up only the broken rivets

Do this, especially if you have fewer than 5 or so. It results in a little bit of debris underneath the membrane, but that's not a big deal.


Oh damn, ripster said ping. It was a good thread while it lasted.

[kywirelessguy]

We use the self tapping screws for Wheelwriter keyboards. I'm pretty sure the screws are tapered. When they are tight just the very tip will stick through the top of the barrel plate. We use an electric screwdriver with a torque limiter, so it ratchets before you can over-tighten the screws. I'm pretty sure the hole we drill is smaller than the screws, it's just there to keep the screw going straight.

When we refurbish a whole Wheelwriter typewriter we try and avoid having to rebuild the whole keyboard, and drilling the plastic with keytops on is kind of dangerous, so we just use the soldering iron to make a divot and then use the self tapping screws. No need to drill anything and no need to remove the keytops.

I can probably grab some pics tomorrow.

[Minskleip]

Can I bolt mod my Customizer to get ping?

[czarek]

Brian O'Neill does that with his "refurb" Model Ms - just epoxies the rivets.  

However my kitchen magnets that are epoxied fall apart after about 5 years.

I'm not talking about epoxy. I want to mould actual ABS into the holes and form rivets looking as close to original as it can get. I'm only wondering if it will work just like brand new Model M. I'll try it out on my Model M mini when it arrives. It's NIB but has few broken rivets. If it turns out to be unusable I'll do that. If it won't work I'll do the bolt mod.
BTW I like ping. Especially such as the one my Model F terminal makes. Bloody plate resonates more than my guitar's hollow body!

[kywirelessguy]

Well I took some pics but they were all fuzzy, but here is the screwdriver we use:
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-DB3DL-3-6-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Screwdriver/dp/B000H2P05Q

I know some people have complained about the dremel going too fast, well you can buy a 1/16" bit with the hex shank that will work with this same screwdriver. The RPMs on this thing are much slower than a dremel.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00964052000P?i_cntr=1315317491199

I was wrong about the screws, they aren't tapered. Just your standard #2 1/4" screws.

[itlnstln]

Can I bolt mod my Customizer to get ping?

Well done.

[czarek]

I found out that you can adjust feel even more by rotating springs in a wells. Changing torque on nuts in bolt modded keyboard doesn't change the feel and sound that much. Try rotating screw 90 degrees and see what happens. You can end up with completely silent (but still tactile) Model M by adjusting springs properly. You can increase and reduce ping as well. I spent ages to adjust my 1390131 to make it perfect.

[kywirelessguy]

Added your soldering iron divot trick to my Mod wiki.

Screws are faster.  Bolts are ping killers.

Plus you can adjust the feel with bolts.  You can't do that with screws.  At least the metal kind.

The quick screw technique is good for keeping a perfectly good keyboard perfectly good. If the keyboard is already faulty or separated then don't bother with a quick fix.

We actually remove the rubber mat from our wheelwriter keyboards, so I'm sure our rebuilt keyboards make a much louder click than a stock keyboard. Our focus is fast turnaround and making sure they work over how they feel though. I'm a bit lost when you guys talk about ping, but based on some of the discussion surrounding the topic I probably don't want to know.

[kywirelessguy]

I found out that you can adjust feel even more by rotating springs in a wells. Changing torque on nuts in bolt modded keyboard doesn't change the feel and sound that much. Try rotating screw 90 degrees and see what happens. You can end up with completely silent (but still tactile) Model M by adjusting springs properly. You can increase and reduce ping as well. I spent ages to adjust my 1390131 to make it perfect.

New springs vs Old springs makes a difference too. We used to reuse old pivot plates, but we just threw them all in a box, so some keyboards would have different feeling keys throughout the keyboard depending on how old the pivot plates were. We have since switched to using new Unicomp pivot plates and everything is a lot more uniform. I wonder if you can buy just the springs somewhere....on second thought, switching out just the springs on a whole keyboard wouldn't be much fun.

[czarek]

Plus, as a Classical Guitarist, I've been trained to eliminate string squeak.

Good to know a fellow classical guitarist. I was tortured to learn classical guitar when i was kid. Turned out nicely when i grew up and joined up local metal band

[czarek]

Man it would make your ears bleed if you run it through mesa boogie distortion. But I don't play much guitar nowadays. I always played bass since high school. That would be good 15 years now...