Opinion on keyboard choice

[Internetlad]

So i've been mulling it over and shuffling my feet, looking at my choice of brands, switches, sizes, colours, and types, and I think i've finally settled on the first keyboard I'd like to look at getting, and was just wondering your opinion.

Firstly i've never actually tested any switches first hand due to lack of any store that would sell a keyboard over 15 dollars in my location (wyoming), but due to the fact that I plan to be using it for a lot of gaming and I have a family which i don't want to piss off greatly, I'd probably want to go for a Tenkeyless Cherry MX Brown keyboard. From how I understand it, the Browns would be the best choice due mainly to the fact they don't sound like a typewriter, and being a linear switch would give better feedback while gaming. Don't get me wrong I love the clicky clack of a good keyboard, but my family probably doesn't appreciate it.

I've been looking at THIS offering by leopold.

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless&pid=fc200rtawn

TBH I don't care whether or not there are writing on the caps. From what i've seen it's a good price, Leopold is a solid name, and I like the style of it in white.

One other thing I was looking at, Is it possible to get maroon keycaps. not that bright red, SPECIFICALLY Maroon, like the awful shoes seen here: http://www.kobe6shoes24.com/images/LeBron/Zoom%20LeBron%20VI%20White%20Deep%20Maroon%20Metallic%20Gold%20346526%20162_5.jpg .

If so what would be the ballpark cost for something like that? I also have been trolling the classifieds and if somebody had a used one they'd put up for offer, i'm open to hearing it.

I appreciate any opinions slash help you could give in the matter! Thanks!

[flyball]

browns aren't linear and are still rather noisy. and don't pay attention to anything about gaming on any switch type, the only one with any disadvantage are the blues, which have a switch reset point where the free-floating tactile portion has already been activated and has to be released a certain distance to reset, so you get inconsistent results when double tapping. and even that is such a minuscule problem that it's not worth caring about. if you like your current rubber dome keyboard then blue or brown switches have a force curve that is the closest to what you have now.

[AbsurdMan]

Browns aren't noisy at all, they can easily be just as quite as a rubber domes. And you maroon key caps will probably be pretty expensive since you might have to custom order them from signature plastics, which means around $100.
Oh yeah and i'm typing on a Leopold tenkeyless with browns and it is not noisy.

[flyball]

Browns aren't noisy at all, they can easily be just as quite as a rubber domes.

bad argument. they can also be 10 times louder http://www.pcworld.com/article/242037/mechanical_keyboard_faq_pick_the_right_switch.html

[Gerk]

bad argument. they can also be 10 times louder http://www.pcworld.com/article/242037/mechanical_keyboard_faq_pick_the_right_switch.html

If you type like a crackhead they can be 10 times louder ...

[video=youtube;ZeE5PbXdqRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeE5PbXdqRs[/video]
(thanks to ripster for posting this on deskthority, I still LOL at this one)

If you don't bottom out browns are pretty quiet in my experience -- that sound chart in the pcworld article seems a bit off to me.

[flyball]

If you type like a crackhead they can be 10 times louder ...

[video=youtube;ZeE5PbXdqRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeE5PbXdqRs[/video]
(thanks to ripster for posting this on deskthority, I still LOL at this one)

If you don't bottom out browns are pretty quiet in my experience -- that sound chart in the pcworld article seems a bit off to me.

wrong switches in the video

[Gerk]

wrong switches in the video

Yes but it shows that not all typists are the same.  Any key will be loud if you type like that.  My browns are significantly quieter than my blues the way I type on them, and they are probably almost as loud as typing on rubber domes (where I pretty much have to bottom out to get the things to register).

[flyball]

Yes but it shows that not all typists are the same.  Any key will be loud if you type like that.  My browns are significantly quieter than my blues the way I type on them, and they are probably almost as loud as typing on rubber domes (where I pretty much have to bottom out to get the things to register).

congrats. however the op is coming from a rubber dome board and by your admission you have to bottom out on them. your anecdote doesnt really apply here.

[Gerk]

Boo freakin' hoo ... sorry I responded.  You are a party popper, no?  Your terrible pcworld article didn't help much either.

[flyball]

Boo freakin' hoo ... sorry I responded.  You are a party popper, no?  Your terrible pcworld article didn't help much either.

let's just throw all our empirical evidence out hte window...

[Gerk]

let's just throw all our empirical evidence out hte window...

"Our" empirical evidence?  Not mine.  The PCWorld article shows that the browns are the loudest.  I on the other hand have two keyboards sitting on the desk in front of me, one with browns and one with blues.  Using my ears to test, when typing on the browns they are MUCH quieter than when typing on the blues.  I could get out the db meter if that would make you feel better, but unfortunately a db meter is a pretty terrible way of testing this (it, by design averages the input level, which means that any number of external audio could be influencing the test and you're not going to get the proper values at the peak, which is what you want for this sort of a test).  A better way would be to do a recording at a set input level with a fixed microphone and keyboard position, using the same person typing on both keyboards.  Using any decent recording application you would then be able to look at the waveforms and visually see the peaks in the audio.  The taller the peak the louder the typing, without anything averaging it out for you.

Does anyone else on here think that browns are louder than blues?  Does anyone else here think that browns are 10 times louder than rubber domes?  

To the OP, sorry for derailing your thread.  It is MY opinion that browns are fairly quiet and certainly much quieter than blues (which is what you are asking about).

[alaricljs]

Browns are far quieter than blues given otherwise identical boards and the same typist.  I have a Filco w/ browns and switching to PBT caps made it even quieter... and removing the top frame of the case made it quieter yet... and I bet if I stuffed the bottom of the case with some 'dead' material it'd get quieter yet....  

That doesn't change the fact that I bottom out and I like it that way.

[flyball]

"Our" empirical evidence?  Not mine.  The PCWorld article shows that the browns are the loudest.  I on the other hand have two keyboards sitting on the desk in front of me, one with browns and one with blues.  Using my ears to test, when typing on the browns they are MUCH quieter than when typing on the blues.  I could get out the db meter if that would make you feel better, but unfortunately a db meter is a pretty terrible way of testing this (it, by design averages the input level, which means that any number of external audio could be influencing the test and you're not going to get the proper values at the peak, which is what you want for this sort of a test).  A better way would be to do a recording at a set input level with a fixed microphone and keyboard position, using the same person typing on both keyboards.  Using any decent recording application you would then be able to look at the waveforms and visually see the peaks in the audio.  The taller the peak the louder the typing, without anything averaging it out for you.

Does anyone else on here think that browns are louder than blues?  Does anyone else here think that browns are 10 times louder than rubber domes?  

To the OP, sorry for derailing your thread.  It is MY opinion that browns are fairly quiet and certainly much quieter than blues (which is what you are asking about).

using a db meter is a much better method of testing than not. the rest of your arguments are just logical fallacies and FUD.

[alaricljs]

If you need a meter for the sound then you need a meter to register the force being applied to the keys or a mechanism to strike the keys in an identical manner.  Blue switches have a device inside that is there specifically to make noise.  Browns do not have this.  Therefor blues will make more noise given that everything else is identical.

[Soarer]

That's a pretty flawed test they did at PCWorld, I certainly wouldn't cite it as evidence. They do mention technique at the end, but not much anywhere about the case/build quality and how it will affect the sound levels.

From it, I learn that rubber dome is 5 times louder than rubber dome!

[Gerk]

using a db meter is a much better method of testing than not. the rest of your arguments are just logical fallacies and FUD.

Ok if you insist, but I'll still put my trust in a fixed position microphone and 44,100 (or higher) samples per second and good recording software over a db meter (technically SPL meter   that is handheld? sitting on a desk? on a tripod?  Shock mounted?  Isolated from desk?) .  Should we get into SPL and the effects of the distance from source as well depending on what kind of mic you are using, and how it all can change your results?  I'll also put my trust in my ears with the keyboards sitting right in front of me -- at least for my personal typing.  My browns are a lot quieter than my blues.

That's a pretty flawed test they did at PCWorld, I certainly wouldn't cite it as evidence. They do mention technique at the end, but not much anywhere about the case/build quality and how it will affect the sound levels.

From it, I learn that rubber dome is 5 times louder than rubber dome!

Thanks Soarer, I agree that it's flawed but they at least did have a defined method, which is technically better than many (including my "ears" argument)

That brings up a good point though, in that the case construction, material, size and desk you're on not to mention the force you use while typing all make differences in the volume of the keyboard.  If you're worried that it might be too loud for others only you can probably judge how loud is too loud.  I'd suggest if you can try and find a store that has at least some kind of mechanical keyboard and try typing on it and see how loud it sounds to you.

[Autolyze]

Kind of surprised that this hasn't been already been mentioned, but decibels aren't a measure of loudness, they're a measure of the sound pressure level. Loudness is subjective and is going to take the frequency into account. I feel like you can safely ignore those measurements from the PCWorld article, since they really don't tell you much about how the keyboards actually sound.

From my relatively limited experience, browns and blues are fairly close in loudness if you're hammering away at both of them, but browns are significantly quieter if you're typing softly or trying not to bottom out. If you add o-rings, browns sound much quieter, but are also a little less fun to type on. In any case, I think browns are definitely the way to go for a first mechanical keyboard.

[Bry]

Browns are just as "loud" as blues if you bottom out. This is a result of the fact the sound of bottoming out on blues is louder than the click produced by the switch.

With that said, if you don't bottom out on browns, they are virtually silent as the switch does not create an audible sound. Depending on the keyboard, there may however be a slight clack on the upstroke.

The most important difference though, is the lack of high pitched annoying lego-plastic sounding click in each keystroke with the browns. The "loudness" of bottoming out is exactly the same as with blues, but that is the only sound you will hear, which is much more of a lower pitched "clack clack."

[Artillery]

If you want the switch that is tactile and quiet the cherry clears are the way to go, which they just recently started carrying at elitekeyboards.  The first mechanical keyboard I bought was a Deck Legend with clear cherry switches.  While typing I almost never bottom out, besides when gaming which is expected.  It doesn't take much to not bottom out on clears.  It takes 80g of force to bottom out.

Cherry clears aren't for everyone though, its a heavy switch compared to the browns and blues.  However I have found I enjoy clears along with browns due to their quiet and tactile nature.  I have heard some call them less smooth then other keyswitches, i find this mostly below the activation point, so I don't see it much; or I might have gotten a good set in my board.

Isn't there a tutorial on dampening the bottoming out sound in the wiki?  Don't they even sell the foam sheets now to do it easier, can't remember the site.

[dorkvader]

My browns are pretty quiet if I'm typing at night (and don't want to wake up the roomates) because I try not to bottom out. They're much quieter than my scissor-laptop keyboard, for a given rate of typing.

I would recommend watching some videos where they compare two keyboards with the same test setup. Just because you use a DB meter (also DB != DBa, etc) doesn't constitute any proof (calibration issues will play a role), so to minimize the number of variables for a purely qualitative study (there's no reason to quantify here, especially if you're going with a "quieter than" or "acceptably quiet" sort of measure) it would be best to watch one (or several) videos, where multiple keyboards are compared under the same conditions.

On the sound issue: If you want to be quiet, don't get a buckling spring: It's really hard to make those quiet enough! One reason I put my Cmstorm (red) next to it, so I can change over when the roommates go to sleep.

You can get rubber to damp out the sound from WASD or elitekeyboards.

Finally: Though I don't have any leopolds, I'm sure you'll he happy with the quality!

[AvenZerg]

first and foremost ANY mechanical switch can be loud depending on how hard you press the keys.. the loudness has nothing to do with the switches (except for the clicky types) but with the keycaps bottoming out and the force you use to pound on them.
i'm pretty dissapointed in the information given by some people on this thread.

aaaaaanyways, if you are unsure about which keycaps are used on a specific keyboard just get some of these
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-accessories-2/cherry-mx-rubber-switch-dampeners.html
they worked for me.

[laffindude]

With that said, if you don't bottom out on browns, they are virtually silent as the switch does not create an audible sound. Depending on the keyboard, there may however be a slight clack on the upstroke.

I feel that reds are slightly more quiet than browns if you don't bottom out. The bump do seem to add a bit more of a rubbing/scraping sound to the travel.

[7bit]

...
One other thing I was looking at, Is it possible to get maroon keycaps. not that bright red, SPECIFICALLY Maroon, like the awful shoes seen here: http://www.kobe6shoes24.com/images/LeBron/Zoom%20LeBron%20VI%20White%20Deep%20Maroon%20Metallic%20Gold%20346526%20162_5.jpg .
...

Get a Cherry-MX keyboard. Any will do!

Get one with black switches from ebay. You will buy the other keyboards later anyway;-)

Buy key caps here:
Double shot replacements ROUND FOUR

To be serious: If you fear to bottom out, get blacks. If not, get any of the others, except blues. They sound like crunching egg shells.

[spolia optima]

Browns are literally silent. Same as blacks, reds, and clears. Take the switch by itself and slowly depress it. There is a tactile bump, but no noise. The noise reported by PC world comes from bottoming out, which has to do with the metal plate and keycaps, NOT THE SWITCH. Let me say that again: the noise is made by the keycaps and metal plate, NOT THE SWITCH ITSELF.

Now, take a blue switch by itself and slowly depress it. There is a distinct "click" sound about halfway down. Now try the brown again. No noise.

Jesus christ, n00bs are dense these days.

[7bit]

...
Now, take a blue switch by itself and slowly depress it. There is a distinct "click" sound about halfway down. Now try the brown again. No noise.

Jesus christ, n00bs are dense these days.

But there are these ping issues ...

[alaricljs]

But there are these ping issues ...

Golf is a whole other forum... you're in the wrong place.

[Internetlad]

lol, well i'll log in my brain file cabinet that Clears would be a solid alternative.

I suppose on another note, SHOULD I be looking for a tactile switch for gaming? I assumed browns would be the best because they were tactile and non-clicky, and I understand the whole issue about bottoming out and noise, that won't be an issue, i've been using a rubber dome for years, it's not like i'll be playing and if somebody discovers me I get beaten, i just would prefer a quieter switch.

[flyball]

lol, well i'll log in my brain file cabinet that Clears would be a solid alternative.

I suppose on another note, SHOULD I be looking for a tactile switch for gaming? I assumed browns would be the best because they were tactile and non-clicky, and I understand the whole issue about bottoming out and noise, that won't be an issue, i've been using a rubber dome for years, it's not like i'll be playing and if somebody discovers me I get beaten, i just would prefer a quieter switch.

it doesnt matter at all for gaming. for reference, you are currently using a tactile keyboard

[Internetlad]

it doesnt matter at all for gaming. for reference, you are currently using a tactile keyboard

Hm, I guess i never thought about it. How does the "tactility" compare between them? any noticable difference?

[flyball]

Hm, I guess i never thought about it. How does the "tactility" compare between them? any noticable difference?

[Internetlad]

Very informative! Thanks for your time!

Gives me a good idea of what i'm looking for.

[duncan]

Tactility is primarily useful for typing.

Most of the common wisdom is to avoid tactile switches for gaming. You are going to be punching keys down pretty much one key or key chord at a time. In that usage tactility means little or nothing (can even be seen as a disadvantage by some). When 10 fingers are dancing across the keys at 80+ WPM then tactility can make a meaningful difference to some people.

So either ignore tactility for gaming or avoid it. Certainly don't go out of your way to obtain it unless and until you have the personal experience that tells you that your fingers and your gaming style mean it is something you really want.

[Internetlad]

well again, not having actual fingers-on-keys experience, are you suggesting i'd go for reds for gaming? They seem to be the most common anyways.