Reason to believe HP and/or Logitech might be considering mechanical boards

[Phaedrus2129]

... Can't say why though. But it's a possibility, they've definitely done a bit of work in that field recently...


Source is confidential.

[dorkvader]

They've definitely done a bit of work in that field recently...

Where? any source, information, or link?

[slueth]

I would like an hp keyboard, logitech sure... maybe when mechanical keyboards become more mainstream the cost will go down.

[Phaedrus2129]

Where? any source, information, or link?

Not that I can share atm.

[dorkvader]

Bummer

Keep us updated with any specifics not covered by any NDA's

[Retox]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason for the high price of mechanical keyboards is the cost of the switches and the cost of moving them from Germany to Asia, and back to the US. Why would logitech and hp's involvement lower either of those costs. The only cost reduction I can see is ordering the switches in bulk, but I'm pretty sure deck and Das already do that here in the States.

[elitekeyboards]

Cool story bro.

HP already made a mechanical in the last two years that they distributed with some workstations/servers. Mr. Intheknowconfidential here should already know that.

[Phaedrus2129]

Cool story bro.

HP already made a mechanical in the last two years that they distributed with some workstations/servers. Mr. Intheknowconfidential here should already know that.

Mr. Snarky Comeback should know that sources (and me) are not omniscient. And isn't your store dying? I like how the Filco jumped in price just as all the competition came out with better models at lower price points. How's that working out?


Anyway, still the first time to my knowledge that Logitech has worked with mechanicals in recent memory.

[dorkvader]

Cool story bro.

HP already made a mechanical in the last two years that they distributed with some workstations/servers. Mr. Intheknowconfidential here should already know that.

Wow, really? Do you have any information on that?

When I got HP certified this year, they didn't mention it, but considering how much of a joke it was, I'm not really surprised.

[pitashen]

... Can't say why though. But it's a possibility, they've definitely done a bit of work in that field recently...


Source is confidential.

For logitech it is just a matter of time. HP to me is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

[pitashen]

I would like an hp keyboard, logitech sure... maybe when mechanical keyboards become more mainstream the cost will go down.

I believe back then IBM model M and Apple extened keyboard cost quite a bit to get. Except back then they were all bundled with the computer.

According to wiki Apple extended keyboard was MSRP at 169 USD

[Phaedrus2129]

Wow, really? Do you have any information on that?

When I got HP certified this year, they didn't mention it, but considering how much of a joke it was, I'm not really surprised.

I'm guessing it was oursourced anyway. From what I've heard, in this case they were involved in the actual design process. Although, it's hard to say. I don't think anyone could lose their job over me telling everything, but they might miss a bonus or raise over it, and in this economy that's no joke.

[pitashen]

I'm guessing it was oursourced anyway. From what I've heard, in this case they were involved in the actual design process. Although, it's hard to say. I don't think anyone could lose their job over me telling everything, but they might miss a bonus or raise over it, and in this economy that's no joke.

ya Hp outsource designs mainly to Asia. My brother in Taiwan is working at a LCD department handling mainly HP account.

[elitekeyboards]

Mr. Snarky Comeback should know that sources (and me) are not omniscient. And isn't your store dying? I like how the Filco jumped in price just as all the competition came out with better models at lower price points.


Still the first time to my knowledge that Logitech has worked with mechanicals in recent memory.

Wow, are you still mad I wouldn't send you a keyboard for review? I can see you're still not mature enough for the task, going around spreading BS rumors and sticking your nose into whatever you can. Honestly, I was kind of disappointed to see a smart guy like you hardly living up to his potential the first time you contacted me. After this post I'm at a loss for words.

FILCO jumped in price because Keyboardco still needs to make some money after they buy them in JPY for more than DOUBLE the cost they are manufactured for AND pay commission to Amazon. Everyone that buys one is just paying for a fourth middleman now.

And yes, my store is dying a very sad death of increasing sales and new product introductions, thanks for wishing me well.

[Retox]

Hahahahaha, the elitekeyboards guy just got wrecked. And you didn't even mention the fact that he tricked his most loyal customers into getting a "limited edition product" that will be released full scale in a few months.

[Phaedrus2129]

What? When did I ask you for that sample again? That was like, a year ago wasn't it? To be honest I'd forgotten EliteKeyboards existed, what with Leopolds and Rosewills offering the same feature set as Filcos for half the price. I suppose you're still the main guys for Topres, and those keycaps you're trying to screw ClickClack on, so you've got that going for you.

Be reasonable and show a modicum of respect and we'll get along fine. Come on like an ******* and I'll serve you in kind.



Edit: Seriously, that was in July of last year. That was really a reach to try to bring that up, especially since I kept recommending Filcos off your site until spring of this year when you had no stock.

[Phaedrus2129]

ANYWAY. To get back on topic again and away from the childish bickering...


I've got more news that Logitech is seriously considering mechanicals; they've been working with Topre for quite a while now apparently. They even made a prototype G-series board with 55cn Topre switches, but couldn't get it working the way they wanted--Topre switches aren't designed for backlighting. No idea if they're still pursuing that or not.

Different source and info by the way, also doesn't want to be named. NDAs and implied NDAs and leaks... Keyboards are srs bsns. ಠ_ರೃ

[pitashen]

FILCO jumped in price because Keyboardco still needs to make some money after they buy them in JPY for more than DOUBLE the cost they are manufactured for AND pay commission to Amazon. Everyone that buys one is just paying for a fourth middleman now.

For fairness sake, I must agree on this. To give you guys some perspectives, In Taiwan, a typical Filco cherry brown fall size costs about 130USD, and guess how much a German made Cherry Crop fall size brown (G80-3000) costs? Just as much as the Filco. I found it quite ridiculous.

Business is business, they all want to make as much money as possible

[Oqsy]

Business is business, they all want to make as much money as possible

Bastards!  Profiteering on retail goods, why the nerve!

[Oqsy]

There goes Ripster, spreading FUD again.

[laffindude]

I heard a business having a pissing match over the internet is really good for business.

Source is me.

[kriminal]

he is screwing ClickClack over his keycaps??

[HWI]

Nobody should be screwing keycaps, it's not natural.

[Oqsy]

I have a ClackFactory key that gets me a little excited. Is that wrong?

[7bit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the reason for the high price of mechanical keyboards is the cost of the switches and the cost of moving them from Germany to Asia, and back to the US. Why would logitech and hp's involvement lower either of those costs. The only cost reduction I can see is ordering the switches in bulk, but I'm pretty sure deck and Das already do that here in the States.

Putting the whole thing together is the most expensive part!

[winterbear]

I would love it if Logitech or HP creates some mechanicals... just so it's more widely available. And seriously, people need to know about/try mechanical keyboards... in real stores.
If Logitech does create it though, I hope it can be something compatible with the unifying wireless thing. Save a USB..

[noodles256]

I always only see phaedrus begging for free review boards

[Lanx]

my information tells me that the team that worked on the logitech "G-series" of mice and keyboards jumped ship to Corsair to make those vengence ghetto hybrid mice the k60 and k90. So if that's it, where's the new team of logitech gseries ppl?

[HWI]

...the team that worked on the logitech "G-series" of mice and keyboards jumped ship to Corsair...

This explains a lot.

[Oqsy]

Do you guise think Logitech or HP will give me review units?  

I heard they're (HP) designing new switches that are analog with customizable actuation points, LEDs, and force feedback built-in for gamerz.

Source: russian blog

[Retox]

Honestly, even if these keyboards were more available I don't think that the general population is willing to do enough research and learn enough about them to justify the price tag. They would just remember logitech's multiple rubber dome offerings for less than 50 dollars, and wonder to themselves why this new board is more than double the price without spending the time to learn about the differences and advantages.

Of course they could work the corsair angle and try to sell boards based on the "it will improve your k/d ratio" strategy, but I don't think that the pc gaming market is big enough to support that industry.

My point is that the increasingly small pc gaming demographic isn't enough to make this venture profitable, and people have been typing on rubber domes for years. I doubt that secretaries across the world are going to suddenly throw down 90-150 dollars us for technology that has been around since the 80's just because it has logitech branding and can be found in staples.

[shrap]

Honestly, even if these keyboards were more available I don't think that the general population is willing to do enough research and learn enough about them to justify the price tag. They would just remember logitech's multiple rubber dome offerings for less than 50 dollars, and wonder to themselves why this new board is more than double the price without spending the time to learn about the differences and advantages.

I doubt that Logitech is just going to throw some bland mechanical keyboards on their catalog and assume that they will sell. If Logitech wants to sell mechanical keyboards, they are going to come with a healthy marketing budget, or at least some "gee-whiz" factor that will separate them from the rest. Logitech doesn't sell to us keyboard hobbyists, they sell to the general public.

Of course they could work the corsair angle and try to sell boards based on the "it will improve your k/d ratio" strategy, but I don't think that the pc gaming market is big enough to support that industry.

My point is that the increasingly small pc gaming demographic isn't enough to make this venture profitable, and people have been typing on rubber domes for years. I doubt that secretaries across the world are going to suddenly throw down 90-150 dollars us for technology that has been around since the 80's just because it has logitech branding and can be found in staples.

Based on this logic, gaming keyboards wouldn't exist at all. Yet they do, and some even cost more than $100. The gaming angle is possible if Logitech can convince people to upgrade their $80 rubber dome / programmable ones.

There's also the high-end luxury market to whom Logitech already sells $150 diNovo keyboards.

[Retox]

Yes, gaming keyboards do exist... but at a far lower pricepoint. The most popular gaming keyboard (to my knowledge) at the moment is the logitech g15, which retails for about $30 us. How's the corsair mechanical doing? I have yet to see one video on youtube of some excited chubby kid unboxing it and yelling about the brushed aluminum.

[demik]

corsair isn't out yet. i think somebody said it was delayed.

and not all gaming keyboards are cheap.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/gaming/mice-keyboard-combos/devices/4956

200 for a g19

g15 (i dont think they make it anymore) is around 170

[Retox]

I'm going to throw myself into the flames and admit that I think both the g15 adn especially the g19 look really really cool. If they came out with a mechanical version I would consider buying one.

[Foodmanchew]

...My point is that the increasingly small pc gaming demographic...

This is definitely not true. PC gaming has had a massive resurgence in the past couple of years.

[Lanx]

HP would have an issue selling keyboards at a +50 price point, but don't for a second thing that Logitech would have that same stumbling block.  

I doubt this, hp currently has the largest marketshare in computers at 20%? dell has 12 or 15%. So what do ppl do if they've already bought a hp desktop and want a better keyboard? might as well look for a hp keyboard, heck maybe they'd get the "gaming" hp keyboard then.

[pitashen]

This is definitely not true. PC gaming has had a massive resurgence in the past couple of years.

Resurgence? Yes. MAssive!? I doubt. Need some hard numbers, especially on those non web-based games.

[Lanx]

how about we just leave it that the pc matters in gaming, ppl have theorized the death of pc gaming since 99 when the ps2 came out, pc still matters, just like how a stupid wii matters.

[shrap]

I doubt this, hp currently has the largest marketshare in computers at 20%? dell has 12 or 15%. So what do ppl do if they've already bought a hp desktop and want a better keyboard? might as well look for a hp keyboard, heck maybe they'd get the "gaming" hp keyboard then.

HP doesn't exist in the accessories market. When was the last time you saw a newsworthy HP keyboard or mouse? On their web page they sell mainly Logitech and Microsoft keyboards and mice.

HP doesn't have the marketing chops to sell mechanical keyboards. They're definitely lacking in confidence after the Touchpad / Palm debacle.

[litster]

I would also predict that there will be more split ergo keyboards in the next couple of years.  Mark Goldstein's patent is expiring in a couple of years, if I remember correctly.

[slueth]

Split ergo topre keyboard plox.

[laffindude]

^you mean the utron?

[slueth]

^for cheaper

[kps]

Except Apple.  Probably the best standard keyboard that comes with your PC in the biz.

Dude, it's not 1987 any more.

[Lanx]

HP doesn't exist in the accessories market. When was the last time you saw a newsworthy HP keyboard or mouse? On their web page they sell mainly Logitech and Microsoft keyboards and mice.

"if" they wanted to get in the market i doubt it wouldn't be difficult for them, they'd make a bundled package or you can "choose your own" when you configure a hp desktop, and it's an association effect, when ppl buy things and they don't "know" they'll go with what they are familiar with, for instance "i need a new keyboard, i want a new gaming keyboard, these keyboards look weird to me, oh look a hp gaming keyboard, i have a hp at home, win".

[StaCT13]

Yes, gaming keyboards do exist... but at a far lower pricepoint. The most popular gaming keyboard (to my knowledge) at the moment is the logitech g15, which retails for about $30 us.

G15s sell for $100. G19s for $160.

RDs are expensive, yo.

[shrap]

"if" they wanted to get in the market i doubt it wouldn't be difficult for them, they'd make a bundled package or you can "choose your own" when you configure a hp desktop, and it's an association effect, when ppl buy things and they don't "know" they'll go with what they are familiar with, for instance "i need a new keyboard, i want a new gaming keyboard, these keyboards look weird to me, oh look a hp gaming keyboard, i have a hp at home, win".

I doubt that HP has many customers willing to upgrade to $100 keyboards with their $500 desktops. HP sells commodity products. They may sell a ton of computers, but they contemplated spinning off their consumer division because it makes so little money (ie: low low margins).

[Glockateer]

I have reason to believe the world will end in 2012.

Source is confidential.

[dorkvader]

Hah, I know where that 2012 thing is from.  It Mayan be true.  It Mayan be not.

Mayan math is base 20 btw. They must have used their toes AND their hands.
(Attachment Link) 31401[/ATTACH]

I remember learning about that from Mom, though I was more impressed with the babylonian base 60, and the "astonished man" Egyptian hieroglyph for 1,000,000

Heh, I have a G15 in my room that I'm fixing for a friend. It cost HOW much? It's like Those TI calc's that only cost what they do because there's only one engineer left in the world that can make displays that crappy. He must have been hired later to design crappy and expensive displays for keyboards.