Author Topic: Apple Extended II after 12 months  (Read 3262 times)

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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 10:57:44 »
I've been using my Apple Extended II keyboard for almost a year now, and all I can say is I like it a lot. I took me a while to get to like it, and like it a lot, but I do now. Thanks to Kps for giving me the chance to test some of his keyboards, and for graciously giving me an ADB cable. My only regret is not having bought a spare Belkin ADB adapter when they were flooding eBay for cheap.

Now, I need to find some time to clean my AEK (not II) and spend some time with it. I have come to like the AEK and AEK II so much that I may buy another one.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:12:32 »
Quote from: dante;467163
Do the AEK/AEK II feel like a modern Fukka that has been manufactured in the last few years?


Others might reply differently, but I find the complicated Alps to be very different from the Fukka switches. Personally, I think complicated Alps switches feel much better than simplified Alps. Perception is very subjective though.

One thing I learned is that one should not judge complicated Alps after having tried the black complicated Alps only.

Offline iindigo

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:12:52 »
I haven't used either myself, but I've read many times that the Matias Tactile Pro series, which makes use of fukkas, feels nothing like the AEKII. It's definitely tactile but it's not the same.

AFAIK nobody today is producing a faithful clone of the creamy complicated ALPS present in the AEKII.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:25:06 »
Quote from: iindigo;467174
I haven't used either myself, but I've read many times that the Matias Tactile Pro series, which makes use of fukkas, feels nothing like the AEKII. It's definitely tactile but it's not the same.

AFAIK nobody today is producing a faithful clone of the creamy complicated ALPS present in the AEKII.
As far as complicated Alps are concerned, I have tried the cream (AEKII), the orange (AEK), the blue and the whites (Ortek), and the black (Dell AT-101W). As for simlified Alps, I have tried the black (ABS M1). The complicated Alps feel much better if you hit the keys dead in the centre, but the simplified ones did not have such a problem although the angle at which the keys are pressed will influence the perception of the "tactile bump." My ABS M1 is nice type on, but I don't think I can type for long hours on it. For some reason, my fingers will get tired quite fast. It's weird because the keys are very smooth.

Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:27:36 »
Well, you could always get a couple of AEKII's for their switches and then get out your soldering iron and a more modern board and make said faithful clone yourself.
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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:29:19 »
Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;467193
Well, you could always get a couple of AEKII's for their switches and then get out your soldering iron and a more modern board and make said faithful clone yourself.
If my adapter dies, I will probably do that. Before I can do this though, I need to learn how to use a soldering iron.

In fact, when I initially purchased my AEK II it was to move the switches into my ABS M1. I decided to get an adapter instead because I like the look of the AEK II.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 December 2011, 12:35:06 by patrickgeekhack »

Offline False_Dmitry_II

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 13:23:31 »
Heh. Well, it really isn't hard. I'm technically in the middle of doing this to my compact vivanco (because I am highly likely to use it where lots of people are, I didn't really want to do that while it has XM switches) and it is the most I have ever used the iron. I just got some desoldering wick and went at it. I don't think my iron is even all that good. It had only been used before to splice some wires together.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin (11 Nov. 1755)

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 13:31:31 »
Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;467257
Heh. Well, it really isn't hard. I'm technically in the middle of doing this to my compact vivanco (because I am highly likely to use it where lots of people are, I didn't really want to do that while it has XM switches) and it is the most I have ever used the iron. I just got some desoldering wick and went at it. I don't think my iron is even all that good. It had only been used before to splice some wires together.


I would assume it's not that hard. If it's too hard, I can get my cousin to do it, and learn from him in the process. However, I don't have a need to do this (nor do I have the time). My wife is using the ABS M1, and she is more than happy. As long as she can type, she is fine. That said, if I do get a cheap AEK or AEK II, I may change my mind.

My ABS M1 has Fukka switches, and is therefore quite loud.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 13:33:49 »
I am curious if the keys from the AEK (not dampened) would be as loud in the ABS M1.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 22:22:42 »
Quote from: dante;467529
Can you give me some pointers on buying an AEK?  Most of the sales on ebay are rather cold; I'd like to know the keyboard that I am buying came from a loving home and was well looked after and cleaned.

What I don't know:

How would you describe the main three switches (white, orange, pink) in terms of sound, tactility, and pressure.
Is one more trouble free than the other?
If you had to pick only the 1 or 2, which and why?
What would be the closest to a low effort switch like a brown/blue but with lots of tactility? (I tried Black Alps before and they were a little heavy for me.)

What I do know:

The AEK2 is supposed to be quieter, less force on the keys.  Has semi clam shell design for cleaning; the AEK1 may be a little more of a PITA to unassemble to clean.



I don't know if I can be of a great help, but here it goes. Other may correct me if I am wrong.

First and foremost, you need to find an ADB adapter is you are going to be able to use an AEK or AEK II as is without moving the switches into an other keyboard.

Unfortunately, it's hard to say in what shape the keyboard you are buying is going to be. For example, the AEK II I bought was quite clean and required minimal cleaning. I was pleasantly surprised to see only dust after I removed the keys. The AEK on the other hand was quite dirty. In fact I have not cleaned it yet. Some keys required me to opened them and blow canned air to get them to work. I am on the look for another one.

I have not had any experience with the pink Alps, but what I can say is that the black Alps switch is not a good one to judge Alps switches in general. White complicated Alps are clicky, just like the blue ones. The AEK comes with orange Alps switches which are tactile, but non-clicky.  They are very smooth, and you can get some noise from the keys bottoming out and springing back into their initial position. The AEK II comes with cream complicated Alps which are tactile and non-clicky as well, but also have rubber dampers. Some people love rubber dampers, some hate them. You can only start to like them, if you are going to like them, after you have spent some time with them, and learned to apply the right amount of force. I found that if I applied too much force, they feel mushy. It may be just a perception thing.

As far as the amount of force required compared to the Cherry MX blue and Cherry MX brown, I would say that complicated Alps tend to require a bit more force to fire. The orange felt a little bit lighter than the cream Alps in my opinion. However, like I said, once you know the cream Alps with rubber dampers, they are nice switches to type on.

If I were to pick AEK or AEK II, which one would I pick? Honestly, I would prefer to not having to pick. They are different, and good in their own ways. They are different in the feel and in the sound they make, but both offer a nice level of satisfaction when used. In fact, I would love to have a complicated white or blue Alps keyboard. I have spent very little time on them, and I quite liked them.

I have been fortunate to have been able to try quite a few keyboard switches. There are still a lot more to try, but I have lifted my foot off the gas pedal so to speak. I have moved on, a bit.  

Hope this helps. Good luck in your hunt.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 09 December 2011, 22:23:35 »
Both the AEK and the AEK II are easy to disassemble and reassemble. I found a website explaining the process very well.

Offline Babbylar

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 03:16:49 »
the ADB ports in the AEK just sort of dangle and isn't very secure. This was fixed in the AEKII. Both are great keyboards. I prefer the sound of the AEKII's but the feel of the AEK. Condition also matters since i have multiple AEKII's where one feels great and the other feels and sounds somewhat off.
Daily Driver: Leopold FC500R (Cherry Red)
Other Keyboards: Apple Extended Keyboard II (ALPS), Kinesis Contoured Essential (MX Brown), Keytronic LT Designer (Dome)
Previously Owned Keyboards: IBM Model M Spacesaver (BS), Compaq MX 11800 (MX Brown), TECHcessories Dinokidz (ALPS), Apple Aluminium Keyboard (Scissor)
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Offline fohat.digs

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 08:50:29 »
I have had both, and agree that the "1" seems to be a better board all around, but I really prefer clicky switches.

The dampened switches on the "2" are not to my taste, even though I have not been shy about flossing/padding/etc other boards.

Maybe I like the "action" part of the switch as smooth and light as possible, but after the click I want to get it over with and move on as soon as possible.

I recently bought a "2" MO3501, as well as a small footprint "Apple Keyboard" MO116 (pinks) that I have not cleaned or tested, but seem like they are going to be OK.

I will sell them cheap and box them together if anybody is interested. Neither has original cords, but I will give you non-Apple cords. No adapter either, sorry.
"It's 110, but it doesn't feel it to me, right. If anybody goes down. Everybody was so worried yesterday about you and they never mentioned me. I'm up here sweating like a dog. They don’t think about me. This is hard work.
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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 12:38:21 »
Quote from: fohat.digs;467688
I have had both, and agree that the "1" seems to be a better board all around, but I really prefer clicky switches.

The dampened switches on the "2" are not to my taste, even though I have not been shy about flossing/padding/etc other boards.

Maybe I like the "action" part of the switch as smooth and light as possible, but after the click I want to get it over with and move on as soon as possible.


This was why I said that most people either love the AEK II or hate it. I find that the dampened Alps have a sweet spot, which depends on the angle of the keyboard and where the keys are pressed.

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 13:18:28 »
Quote from: dante;467816
I might try pink/orange alps..

I'm trying to find the alps version of the cherry blue without the click.. so 50-55g.  The black alps broke my cherry black/buckling spring loving hands.

This has been my challenge all along: finding a 50-55g switch that has a LOT of tactility.

Lots of rubber domes have this but it's always mushy and not "clean"


It was a love and hate story between my Dell AT-101W and me. Sometimes I managed to hit the sweet spot, and was telling myself what a great keyboard it was. Other times, I hated the keyboard because the keys were not smooth. I was probably hitting the keys off-centre. This is something you don't encounter with the Cherry switches.

Offline theferenc

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 14:53:33 »
Dante, aren't you describing Cherry clears, basically?

The blue monterey's might be to your taste as well, but they are definitely on the clicky end of the spectrum, but feel amazing.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 15:14:28 »
I absolutely love blue Montereys, but the layout of my Chicony 5181 bugs me to no end. A "big-ass" Enter key is no-prob, I must always hit it at the bottom edge, I rarely use \ |, but a single-size Backspace is a deal-killer for me. Obviously, I make a lot of mistakes. They have the best click of all, to my ears at least. Were they available on other full-size boards?

Having had at least a half-dozen Dell AT101s (mostly the "W" variant) I can tell you that they are all over the place. I had a nice one that looked worn out, and one that looked great but typed bad. I have 2 left now, my son uses 1 and I have one in storage, a good one can be nice.

Good fresh clean Alps are really nice switches, but I would never expect the longevity I plan to get from my Model M/Fs.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 December 2011, 15:17:55 by fohat.digs »
"It's 110, but it doesn't feel it to me, right. If anybody goes down. Everybody was so worried yesterday about you and they never mentioned me. I'm up here sweating like a dog. They don’t think about me. This is hard work.
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Offline N8N

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 18:26:49 »
I have three boards with clears - a new Leopold, a Filco that I used some clears from an old POS board to change, and a "rawko" board.  The Leopold is actually not the best feeling of the three; that i'd have to say is the Filco.  I attribute that to the fact that I lubed the stems.  I bet if I had new sliders and lubed those that tehy'd feel even better.  I suspect that the Leopold will feel better and better the more I type on it and it breaks in a little.
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Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 20:54:09 »
Quote from: fohat.digs;467880
I absolutely love blue Montereys.


I would love to try the Monterey switch, but it's a rare one to get. Is it closer to the blue or white complicated Alps?

Offline fohat.digs

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 10 December 2011, 21:50:07 »
I have never had a blue Alps board, I think that it is lighter than whites in both touch and sound.

I would describe it as delicate and high-pitched.
"It's 110, but it doesn't feel it to me, right. If anybody goes down. Everybody was so worried yesterday about you and they never mentioned me. I'm up here sweating like a dog. They don’t think about me. This is hard work.
Do you feel the breeze? I don't want anybody going on me. We need every voter. I don't care about you. I just want your vote. I don't care."
- Donald Trump - Las Vegas 2024-06-09

Offline patrickgeekhack

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Apple Extended II after 12 months
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 21:51:19 »
Quote from: False_Dmitry_II;467257
Heh. Well, it really isn't hard. I'm technically in the middle of doing this to my compact vivanco (because I am highly likely to use it where lots of people are, I didn't really want to do that while it has XM switches) and it is the most I have ever used the iron. I just got some desoldering wick and went at it. I don't think my iron is even all that good. It had only been used before to splice some wires together.


Is there a difference between desoldering plate-mounted Alps switches and PCB-mounted Alps switches?