Author Topic: Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control  (Read 7249 times)

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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:52:58 »
http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html

When I was first reading this and the part where he recommends that you mash the control key with the palm of your left hand, my expression was thus:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34830[/ATTACH]

Another gem is the message at the top used throughout the website:

Quote
If you spend more than 2 hours on the site, please pay USD $6. Thank you


With a paypal button right underneath it.  I'm thinking geekhack should implement this as well.  What do you think?
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:58:07 by inaneframe »

Offline cactux

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:55:15 »
caps locks is the most usless key in the keyboard, and giving such nice position is just a waist.  dye caps lock dye
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Offline Gin

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:57:59 »
Quote from: cactux;469478
caps locks is the most usless key in the keyboard, and giving such nice position is just a waist.  Dye caps lock dye


no it's not.

Edit: Okay, yes it is. Since this board disabled caplock spam =(

Offline cactux

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:58:47 »
^ why? when I said more usless is base on the key position. num locks and friends do not have such key poition on the board
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:02:22 by cactux »
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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 02:59:11 »
Quote from: Gin;469480
no it's not.


Excellent rebuttal on Gin's part here, 1 point awarded!  :fencing:

Offline Gin

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:00:28 »
Hey! I was trying to be clever and type it all in caps. But apparently that's not allowed. Making me seem like a fool, which I am not.

Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:03:10 »
Quote from: Gin;469483
Hey! I was trying to be clever and type it all in caps. But apparently that's not allowed. Making me seem like a fool, which I am not.


debatable j/k God Bless America! :usa:

Offline digitalleftovers

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:07:10 »
Who the **** presses control with their palm?  I applogise if you only have one hand but if you have two, please use the other one.  You'll be so much happier!
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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:10:07 »
I only ever use my left pinky.  It is like second nature to me now.

Offline cactux

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 03:10:55 »
^ me 2
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Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 07:27:41 »
Quote from: inaneframe;469476
http://xahlee.org/emacs/swap_CapsLock_Ctrl.html

When I was first reading this and the part where he recommends that you mash the control key with the palm of your left hand, my expression was thus:

(Attachment Link) 34830[/ATTACH]

The guy quotes a programmer since the 60's then disregards his opinion, assuming the programmer isn't a touch typist. What a stupid assumption. Back in that era, nearly everybody using a keyboard was a touch typist.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 07:55:47 »
You can't press ctrl with your palm on laptop scissor switch keyboards - the palm argument is invalid.

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Offline xorxpto

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 08:11:17 »
For people using the US-internacional layout, CapsLock should be mapped to AltGr, so you can type accented letters with ease.
In this case, if you don't want to loose CapsLock functionality, you can remap CapsLock to “Insert” Key because “Insert” Key is repeatead on the numeric keypad.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34834[/ATTACH]

This is the remapping I did on my computer:
AltGr -> CapsLock
CapsLock -> Insert

Offline fireball87

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 08:23:46 »
Caps lock is a pretty important key if you're stuck entering letter (and number combinations) into a program that is too stupid to guarantee data style consistency, despite ignoring case.  Which is sadly a lot of business apps.

I generally remap mine to control at home, but I never really use it as such.  I currently have just been remapping it to get caps lock off my keyboard, but generally using the actual control key as habit.

Offline zmurf

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 08:31:12 »
Everybody sane know where the correct position of the caps lock key is:
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34839[/ATTACH]
At last! A mechanical keyboard with Trackpoint of my own! Now with Hyper-Scroll! And also Ergo-Clear switches. Ohh... look... custom keys! :D

Offline RiGS

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 08:37:11 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;469485
Who the **** presses control with their palm?

I do. I find it very useful for gaming. I wish the HHKB would have a key in that position.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 08:54:44 »
Maybe I have not looked hard enough, but are there any alternative keys/keycaps for the "Caps Lock" for Model M or Cherry that fit the opening, properly, or even improperly?

On my Model M/F I am using a single tab (pointing right, since I have remapped it to Delete) oversized cap, but it still leaves a gap of about a quarter key-width. Not bad, but not right.

I am not bothered enough, yet, to get out the Dremel and epoxy, but will that be my only solution?
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Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:14:56 »
Quote from: zmurf;469575
Everybody sane know where the correct position of the caps lock key is:
(Attachment Link) 34839[/ATTACH]


Ah, I see you've put C128 keys on your A1200.

Offline zmurf

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:23:17 »
Quote from: mr_a500;469610
Ah, I see you've put C128 keys on your A1200.

aahh... well it isn't mine... it is Akiras on Amibay.com. I just took it since it really shows the Ctrl key position. But yes... it is C128 keys. Looks really nice. The C128 key typeface is a lot cooler then the Amiga key typeface.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:26:03 by zmurf »
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Offline Playtrumpet

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:18:51 »
Caps Lock is a second backspace for me. Hitting Control with your palm seems stupid, and for people with an fn key, it's anything but useful to do that.
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Online iMav

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:24:32 »
Quote from: inaneframe;469476
With a paypal button right underneath it.  I'm thinking geekhack should implement this as well.  What do you think?
There is a "Donate" button on the menu tab.  Feel free to use it!!  ;)

I don't think you should swap caps lock and left ctrl.  I think you should remove caps lock all together and add an additional ctrl there.

Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:47:28 »
I removed Caps Lock completely. I have Ctrl beside A and Apple Command below left shift. Alt is below right shift where Caps Lock used to be.


Offline alaricljs

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:47:33 »
Caps is where one of my Fn keys is going to be.
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Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 13:45:30 »
I've thought about it for a bit and instead of removing Caps Lock, I've decided that this is the best way to go:


Offline sordna

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 13:45:57 »
Why the capslock hate? I find it useful. What do you guys do if you need to type a long string of capital letters, or just a few words? How do you do it? Try typing this: I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS
Do you use the left shift, the right shift, or alternating both, depending on the letter to be capitalized?
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Offline cbf123

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 14:02:09 »
Quote from: sordna;469862
What do you guys do if you need to type a long string of capital letters, or just a few words? How do you do it? Try typing this: I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS

I use the capslock which was mapped to the old ctrl key...duh.  For those who like some other key down there, map ScrLk or Pause or something else to capslock.
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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 14:45:32 »
Quote from: iMav;469712
There is a "Donate" button on the menu tab.  Feel free to use it!!  ;)

I don't think you should swap caps lock and left ctrl.  I think you should remove caps lock all together and add an additional ctrl there.


Absolutely!  The only people that need caps lock are FORTRAN programmers and the like.

Quote from: sordna;469862
Try typing this: I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS


Ok:

I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS

Quote from: sordna;469862
Do you use the left shift, the right shift, or alternating both, depending on the letter to be capitalized?


None of that, I copy and pasted!

Why would I ever need to type that?  Before you go into how difficult it would be to piss in a toilet on the ceiling without the proper gear and a tube, you have give me a reason as to why I would ever want to piss in a toilet on the ceiling.

Offline Lanx

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 14:53:02 »
Quote from: sordna;469862
Why the capslock hate? I find it useful. What do you guys do if you need to type a long string of capital letters, or just a few words? How do you do it? Try typing this: I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS
Do you use the left shift, the right shift, or alternating both, depending on the letter to be capitalized?
you know me i use kinesis thumb delete to shift modifier, works AWESOME! (prolly only one in the world to do it too)

Offline weenis

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 15:06:20 »
What would you put in place of Caps Lock?
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Offline Lanx

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 15:24:31 »
you could totally palm ctrl on a regular 104keyboard, just tried it, works pretty well actually.

Offline pitashen

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 15:27:03 »
whatever that site says is quite a bit of nonsense. No one says you have to swap capslock key with the right-ctrl. I simply map some other totally useless key as Capslock and have 3 keys that work as ctrl.
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Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 15:28:53 »
Quote from: inaneframe;469912

Why would I ever need to type that?  Before you go into how difficult it would be to piss in a toilet on the ceiling without the proper gear and a tube, you have give me a reason as to why I would ever want to piss in a toilet on the ceiling.


I used to have a toilet on the ceiling, but I swapped it with a light fixture I used to piss on.

Offline sordna

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 16:40:32 »
Quote from: inaneframe;469912

I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS

None of that, I copy and pasted!

Why would I ever need to type that?  Before you go into how difficult it would be to piss in a toilet on the ceiling without the proper gear and a tube, you have give me a reason as to why I would ever want to piss in a toilet on the ceiling.


If you never need to type capital letters is a row, like IBM, or YMMV, or WYSIWIG, then you don't need caps lock. However, most people do need to type capital letters from time to time, and holding shift instead of pushing caps lock, throws off your touch typing, slows you down, and puts an enormous strain on your hands in comparison.
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Offline mr_a500

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 16:46:25 »
I think the last time I typed more than a few words in capital letters was back in 1983 when I was programming games on my TRS-80 - and that keyboard didn't have a Caps Lock. (didn't need one - it didn't have lowercase)

Offline funkymeeba

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 16:58:35 »
If I were to swap the caps lock key with anything, it would probably be the `/~ key. I use that one a lot, and I never use caps lock.

That being said, I can't palm the ctrl key on my 87-key board. Are my fingers just too long? There is no comfortable way to do that. Therefore, this person has a dumb opinion. I won't even give him $3 for my visit to the site.
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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 16:58:59 »
Quote from: sordna;470018
like IBM,
Three whole letters!!! :eek:
Quote from: sordna;470018
or YMMV,
Four, **** now we're really getting serious here! :becky:  Just for the record, I have never in my life typed that.
Quote from: sordna;470018
or WYSIWIG
Considering I don't live in the 1980s and most editors are WYSIWYG by default, I only need to distinguish when I use a particular editor that is not.
Quote from: sordna;470018
puts an enormous strain on your hands in comparison.
Perhaps for some people but, for me, writing with a pen puts about ten times the strain on my hand that having a couple acronyms to deal with every once in awhile does.  We're coming very close to the day when nobody has to know the pain that is a pen.  On another note, I would not mind the caps lock being where the windows key is now.  I think our main issue is with having such an under used key in such prime real estate, I'm sure that you can appreciate this, right?

Offline Thion

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:08:13 »
I went dvorak on my qwerty and replaces Capslock with Backspace. Aside from an added modifier for Games, its the best solution for me since it reduces right pinkie travel.
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:10:25 by Thion »

Offline sordna

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #37 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:10:42 »
Well, I appreciate both. On one computer, I have Caps Lock mapped as Alt Gr (which I hold down to activate a 2nd layer or my Poker which allows me to move the mouse pointer and do clicks). But I make Caps Lock operable by pushing both shifts:  setxkbmap -option shift:both_capslock   It's true I don't use it THAT much, in regular typing, but I do when I'm programming since lots of programs have constants written in caps.
Anyway, most of the time I'm on Kinesis Advantage keyboards so the regular Caps Lock doesn't seem much like prime real estate, because the primest real estate is the thumb keys! That's where Control, Alt, Enter, Backspace and even Tab live.
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Offline inaneframe

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:13:51 »
Quote from: sordna;470036
But I make Caps Lock operable by pushing both shifts:  setxkbmap -option shift:both_capslock   It's true I don't use it THAT much, in regular typing, but I do when I'm programming since lots of programs have constants written in caps.


Now see that is just ****ing genius!  I might be doing that myself now, thanks!

Offline sordna

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:19:31 »
Another thing you can do (assuming you have a Kinesis) is use a footswitch for shift. That solves both the Caps Lock and the tired pinky problem. I'm using a footswitch every now and then but don't have the discipline to use it all the time.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline laffindude

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 17:48:25 »
Quote from: digitalleftovers;469485
Who the **** presses control with their palm?  I applogise if you only have one hand but if you have two, please use the other one.  You'll be so much happier!


I do. I use the base of my pinky. Using pinking unnaturally contort my hand. I can have my hand on the mouse while doing ctrl+c and ctrl+v. Using 2 hands is slower.

Offline Lanx

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 22:51:36 »
i was testing out the foot switch with my older mod... didn't have it in me to press it all the time, plus now my legs are usually elevated anyway, so that could be in a sense an ergonomic issue.

Offline zmurf

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 09:31:43 »
Quote from: sordna;469862
Why the capslock hate? I find it useful. What do you guys do if you need to type a long string of capital letters, or just a few words? How do you do it? Try typing this: I AM TYPING CAPITAL LETTERS
Do you use the left shift, the right shift, or alternating both, depending on the letter to be capitalized?


The two or three times per year that I write long sentences with capital letters I can accept to be forced to hold town either shift key. All the other times I'm very happy to not being able to accidentally press caps lock and have to rewrite a entire sentence that happened to be caps locked. (sometimes I write quite a lot of text without actually looking at that screen that I'm writing on.. I have three other screens to watch... or I look out the window)
At last! A mechanical keyboard with Trackpoint of my own! Now with Hyper-Scroll! And also Ergo-Clear switches. Ohh... look... custom keys! :D

Offline sordna

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 09:41:08 »
Quote from: zmurf;470487
All the other times I'm very happy to not being able to accidentally press caps lock and have to rewrite a entire sentence that happened to be caps locked


I guess I'm spoiled by another Kinesis feature: Toggling the Caps Lock makes a buzz sound! 2 buzzes when Caps Lock is toggled on, and a single buzz when it's toggled off. So you can tell what state you toggled it to without looking. (You can turn the buzz off altogether of course, just like you can turn on/off the regular piezo click sound which I also find useful).
Kinesis Contoured Advantage LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Contoured Model 110, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, KBC Poker (Cherry MX Red), IBM Space Saving keyboard (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline dorkvader

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 18:06:53 »
yeah, haptics is pretty excellent.

The two shift thing is genius, though.

Offline davkol

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 11:32:00 »
Quote from: xorxpto;469566
For people using the US-internacional layout, CapsLock should be mapped to AltGr, so you can type accented letters with ease.
In this case, if you don't want to loose CapsLock functionality, you can remap CapsLock to “Insert” Key because “Insert” Key is repeatead on the numeric keypad.
(Attachment Link) 34834[/ATTACH]

This is the remapping I did on my computer:
AltGr -> CapsLock
CapsLock -> Insert

I use Colemak and write a lot in Czech. AltGr under '>', or better under 'M' is more ergonomic than anywhere else, because I can press it with right thumb without moving my hands from home position.

Quote from: Playtrumpet;469705
Caps Lock is a second backspace for me. Hitting Control with your palm seems stupid, and for people with an fn key, it's anything but useful to do that.

Agreed. Caps Lock used as Backspace feels much better.
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touch typed in Colemak

Offline xorxpto

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Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 11:57:58 »
This is the remapping I did on my computer:
AltGr -> CapsLock
CapsLock -> Insert

Quote from: davkol;472141
I use Colemak and write a lot in Czech. AltGr under '>', or better under 'M' is more ergonomic than anywhere else, because I can press it with right thumb without moving my hands from home position.


The idea is to have two AltGr keys, one in the right side (normal position, under '>') and the other on the left side, where Capslock is.
Doing so, you can press AltGr with one hand and the accented letter with the other hand.
(like having a second pair of shift keys)

Offline davkol

  • Posts: 3823
  • Location: CZ
Why You Should Not Swap Caps Lock With Control
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 16 December 2011, 12:43:02 »
Quote from: xorxpto;472159
The idea is to have two AltGr keys, one in the right side (normal position, under '>') and the other on the left side, where Capslock is.
Doing so, you can press AltGr with one hand and the accented letter with the other hand.
(like having a second pair of shift keys)
I get it now. But it'd mean losing left backspace. I've even thought about it because I'm having trouble with AltGr under '/'...
typing setup: ErgoDox (modded) & Kensington Slimblade trackball
portable setup: Lenovo ThinkPad X200 Tablet & TypeMatrix 2030 & Logitech M570
gaming setup: CM Storm QFR 2012 (modded) & [Roccat Lua/Savu/Tyon, CM Storm Alcor/Xornet] @ [SteelSeries QcK/4HD/Icemat I-2]
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touch typed in Colemak