[ALL SHIPPED] Riddler's Question Mark (?) Double Shot Keycap Group Buy

[captain]

Sorry for the lack of reply! Been quite busy after my vacation!
If someone has a better idea please post

I think my idea above still makes sense, and makes shipping easier for you. If we want the mistakes we get as many as we originally ordered. Then you just match the original with the errors and ship one tidy package to each of us.

what's the cost of the error keys?

[squarebox]

I would glady take the error ones.

[tsangan]

Alright so here is the problem.

I want to be able to provide the keys for everyone that want it, which I don't know how many that is. I am willing to buy the keys which is at .35/each and sell them each at $2 for anyone that has an order already. You might go that's a rip off! But please look at it from my perspective, unlike a regular GB where I get the order and the money and distribute the keys afterwards I have the keys on hand meaning I will be paying all the money for the keys myself. I know some people have voiced that they want the keys but not everyone meaning I do not know how many of these I will be sitting on and if I sell them at cost I will have to wait till I sell every single one of them before I make my money back. I have no problem with running a no profit GB which is what this GB was, but I do have a problem of running a GB with my own money which I might lose money on.

Now you might suggest that I sell them at cost to whoever ordered already, and only charge a premium to new buyers, but then what if not everyone from the initial order wants it? Then I have to sit on these for no reason? I hope everyone can understand where I am coming from with this, I am not trying to make money off the community from running GBs, heck it would be easier for me to send them back and I don't even have to worry about losing money, but I know some of you have voiced your interest in these so I want to be able to provide it for everyone.

[Gawkbasher]

I understand but I'll pass.

I'm all for making a profit on risk but 470% ROI is more than I'm comfortable with.  Once 35 of 200 keys are sold, the investment is made back already.

[snowboarder3]

I understand but I'll pass.

I'm all for making a profit on risk but 470% ROI is more than I'm comfortable with.  Once 35 of 200 keys are sold, the investment is made back already.

I'm with you.

[litster]

$2 a key is an awesome deal, especially for people who have already ordered and these new keys would be shipped in the same package with the original orders.  I would buy 5 at $2 each for $10.

[tsangan]

I understand but I'll pass.

I'm all for making a profit on risk but 470% ROI is more than I'm comfortable with.  Once 35 of 200 keys are sold, the investment is made back already.

I will be buying the entire order of 5xx per colour making it over 1000+ keys, as I don't know how many people are interested.

[snowboarder3]

I will be buying the entire order of 5xx per colour making it over 1000+ keys, as I don't know how many people are interested.

What are your thoughts on running a day or two gb for those who do want the keys that already ordered, and selling the rest off at a premium? I guess that opens the doors for undercutting of you and taking longer possibly to sell them off. Either way, thanks for doing the GB and being so transparent.

[Gawkbasher]

I will be buying the entire order of 5xx per colour making it over 1000+ keys, as I don't know how many people are interested.

Fair enough.  After I posted I considered that SP was giving you an all-or-none option on the keys.  Seems that's what you're looking at and that's more reasonable

[tsangan]

What are your thoughts on running a day or two gb for those who do want the keys that already ordered, and selling the rest off at a premium? I guess that opens the doors for undercutting of you and taking longer possibly to sell them off. Either way, thanks for doing the GB and being so transparent.

As much as I want to I don't have the time for it. Sending out invoice, tracking payments is not so simple. As well as the problem you already stated.

I might also want to state for the next month I will also be working everyday of the week as there is an issue at work and people have to step away so I really don't have time for anything.

[litster]

Guys, tsangan is doing us a favor, taking on the risk with his own money, while you guys have the option to opt in or out.  And doing this is even more sorting and packing work for him, which is the most hated part of a group buy for the organizers.  I know.  I've done it before.  And most of you have done key sorting of your own one way or the other.

Before you say it isn't too bad, I challenge any one of you who think this is not a fair deal stand up, spend your own hundreds of dollars to buy up the keys, and they you do packing and shipping to everyone who wants these wrongly made keys.

[i3oilermaker]

I think you buy half of them back and sell them for a buck each.  There is no question you would still turn a profit.

Hell, I would buy half of them at cost and run an order thread.

[litster]

I think you buy half of them back and sell them for a buck each.  There is no question you would still turn a profit.

Hell, I would buy half of them at cost and run an order thread.

Then you should do it.  First, ask SP if you can buy half of it first, and how much.  But you can figure out the rest.

[i3oilermaker]

PMd

[tsangan]

I have talked to a few trusted members on GH prior to my last post, as I did not want to come out as being a scumbag trying to make money off everyone.

With that being said I hope I get the support from the community, if you wish you can just watch me sit on these keys and watch me waste my money then I cannot help that.

[litster]

To save everyone's agony, probably the best thing for tsangan to do is to return the keys back to SP like nothing ever happened, if people don't appreciate his effort.  This really is a big waste of time as most of us make way more income in our day job by the hour unless you are a poor college student.  You can't pay me enough to do any group buy, including my acrylic case group buy and the Phantom group buy.  I, and other People organize group buy for the love of their hobby and the community.  

I'd rather be eating a Tsangwich right now!

[Zehkul]

If you’ve got problems getting rid of them, at .35 each I’d jump in for 100, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. I don’t think that’s much of an issue, we’re a community after all. GBs happen because we stick together.
/edit: want us to send you something, or is that too much work? (tracking and stuff, don’t know, haven’t done a GB yet)

[i3oilermaker]

^ me too

[tsangan]

May I ask what are you going to do with 100 of each design?

So far every time I made a GB, most people that order a big amount is to sell it at a later date at a higher cost, which leads to me working and they profit.

[litster]

So you guys will buy them at cost and sell them at cost to new buyers?  And new buyers will pay separate shipping from you?  Or are you going to sleep with your new-found 100 keys?  How is it going to work?

[boost]

I just wanna cover my poker with them

Sent from a phone...

[tsangan]

I just wanna cover my poker with them

Sent from a phone...

So did people with awesome face

[i3oilermaker]

I think this falls into the category of the GH keys that are just stupid cheap so its like why not.  Down the road I may sell some or throw some in to a deal, but I wouldn't put them in a plastic bag with a packing peanut and a $15 price tag.

[i3oilermaker]

I think Zehkul's point is that if you overbuy and people don't want them, we got your back.

[boost]

So did people with awesome face

I missed that gb

but I wouldn't put them in a plastic bag with a packing peanut and a $15 price tag.

Lmao.. this made me giggle

Sent from a phone...

[litster]

but I wouldn't put them in a plastic bag with a packing peanut and a $15 price tag.

No more than $2 each, like what Tsangan was thinking?

[reaper]

I'll pay 2 bucks each for the current one (the ones SP f'ed up lol) and I'll wait for the ones with the correct row/profile.

[boost]

I want 10 each

Sent from a phone...

[KylJoy]

I'd match my original order of 3 of each color and end up with 3 of each color with the 2 different row profiles (12 keys, 6 of each row profile).  It'd only cost me another $12 bucks at $2 each.  Shipping wouldn't change.

[tsangan]

I'll pay 2 bucks each for the current one (the ones SP f'ed up lol) and I'll wait for the ones with the correct row/profile.

I'd match my original order of 3 of each color and end up with 3 of each color with the 2 different row profiles (12 keys, 6 of each row profile).  It'd only cost me another $12 bucks at $2 each.  Shipping wouldn't change.

Thanks for the support guys! Yes shipping would not change

[Zehkul]

So you guys will buy them at cost and sell them at cost to new buyers?  And new buyers will pay separate shipping from you?  Or are you going to sleep with your new-found 100 keys?  How is it going to work?

May I ask what are you going to do with 100 of each design?

So far every time I made a GB, most people that order a big amount is to sell it at a later date at a higher cost, which leads to me working and they profit.

I’ve no interest in having them now, and not much in having that many at all, to be honest. (I can use like 15 — and then my function row is full xD Maybe on more keyboards, but seriously, that’s just as dumb as an all awesome board) I said in case you can’t sell them and are stuck with your investment.

I think Zehkul's point is that if you overbuy and people don't want them, we got your back.

Exactly.

[tsangan]

I’ve no interest in having them now, and not much in having that many at all, to be honest. (I can use like 15 — and then my function row is full xD Maybe on more keyboards, but seriously, that’s just as dumb as an all awesome board) I said in case you can’t sell them and are stuck with your investment.

I can see that you are willing to help but there are a few problems, I'm not saying you would bail but I had people bail on me due to personal reasons that I cannot fault them for.

Basically you are asking me to invest and sell at cost and when I can't sell anymore of them to find people that are willing to buy them in bulk so I don't end up losing cost. Over a course of 2-3 months at a minimum, with additional communication work, invoicing, payment tracking, sorting, and shipping for me to do. All this for me to make back what was mine, It's not even something that I can call it a day if it doesn't sell I have to try to sell every single one of them to make back cost.

You might go well why not sell at cost for now and premium at a later point, then I run into people selling the ones they bought as well as all the people already bought so there's less and less people that want it.

You might have an another opinion on this but I don't think its fair.

[zzspectrez]

Wow this is turning in to a pain in the ass for tsangan!

I am still unclear on what you are proposing.

Are we going to get our original order done correctly and then if we want the messed up ones it is $2.00 per key?

If so that seems more then fair, I will take 8 of black and 6 of green.

[tsangan]

Wow this is turning in to a pain in the ass for tsangan!

I am still unclear on what you are proposing.

Are we going to get our original order done correctly and then if we want the messed up ones it is $2.00 per key?

If so that seems more then fair, I will take 8 of black and 6 of green.

Original order stays as is, whatever you paid for already will be completed and sent out to you.

ON TOP OF THAT there are esc rows available at $2 a piece, with no additional shipping, and it will ship out at the same time as the correct keys from this GB

Thank you for the support!

[Zehkul]

Basically you are asking me to invest and sell at cost

Not at all, that’s clearly not fair. Selling at cost just works with pre payments. Which I’d be willing to do, but sadly this is probably impossible to quickly organize now. Don’t know, that’s up to you, I just want you to know that there are folks willing to help out.

I would pay 2$, too, but I'd like to buy 12 of them which I won't do at that price. I don't even bother about basically donating 20$ to you if I did buy at that price (I'm fine with that, really!), I just want as many keys as possible to be spread at low prices. At 2$ each we won't buy that much, while this group buy was so insanely cheap because many went ahead and bought more than they needed. Which is what got us the low prices, and hence the .35 on this one, too. But I agree that giving out hundreds to guys that just want to resell them isn't a good thing to do either. We want many to get the keys, and not create the same situation we have now, just with others making the profit.

[zzspectrez]

Not at all, that’s clearly not fair. Selling at cost just works with pre payments. Which I’d be willing to do, but sadly this is probably impossible to quickly organize now. Don’t know, that’s up to you, I just want you to know that there are folks willing to help out.

I would pay 2$, too, but I'd like to buy 12 of them which I won't do at that price. I don't even bother about basically donating 20$ to you if I did buy at that price (I'm fine with that, really!), I just want as many keys as possible to be spread at low prices. At 2$ each we won't buy that much, while this group buy was so insanely cheap because many went ahead and bought more than they needed. Which is what got us the low prices, and hence the .35 on this one, too. But I agree that giving out hundreds to guys that just want to resell them isn't a good thing to do either. We want many to get the keys, and not create the same situation we have now, just with others making the profit.

Just to add to that sentiment.  

Hey I would buy more too if he sells for lower price. However, we are not the ones fronting all the money. Do nothing and we got what we ordered. You want function row too then its $2. If you front all the money for him and eat any of the keys that don't get purchased maybee he will do it!  I think some people are focused on the money and not the extra time he has to invest and risk of basicly doing another group buy with no knowledge of the demand for the keys. It's something he is obviously not comfortable with and has nothing to do with the initial group buy other then delay.

Just my two cents.

[fstop]

500 keys @ $.35 = $175
500 keys @ $2.00 = $1000

I think that's where people feel slightly uncomfortable. I have to be honest, I feel the same way. I understand where you're coming from but the risk is very minimal on your end and the profit margin is too large. Its true that you're fronting the money, but I don't think anyone wouldn't in this situation. Even at $1 a key there would be a very small risk.  

The argument that people can just buy these and flip them is true for any group buy. I mean look at the original prices for the GB that was actually suppose to happen here. We paid $.51 cents each, there was no stopping anyone from amassing 100 of them and selling them for $4-5 each. The difference here is that it seems like you're the one flipping them now (I'm not trying to accuse you of this, that's just the way that it appears). And the big problem with this is you're the only person with the keys! Unlike in other group buys, where people amass keys and risk resell, you're running a monopoly on these, so the risk is even smaller. Obviously if you were to sell them closer to at cost, you should put some sort of limit. The interest seems to be high so even if you limited people to 10-20 keys I don't think you would have a problem selling them.

I would much rather prefer if someone helped you out and organized an opportunity for people to buy these from the original group buy, up to the limit of the original order. Any extras would be up for grabs. Since you don't have the time for this maybe someone could help you out? I wouldn't mind, and I think other members would be willing as well. There is still quite a bit of time before the actual keys from the GB come in, at least a week maybe longer, so I think there is more then enough time for someone to work this out.

Anyway, I guess those are the feelings that I wanted to voice out and for you to understand. In the end, I won't judge you in any way whatever you decide to do. I myself would happily buy a few keys for $2 a piece. I know there would be some unhappy people though, but you organized the group buy, this opportunity landed on you, so whatever you decide I'm on board. And in the end, you buying them and making a profit (again, not accusing you of doing this) is better then some random members doing it. This is your GB after all.

[Zehkul]

Hey I would buy more too if he sells for lower price. However, you and I are not the ones fronting all the money. Do nothing and we got what we ordered. You want function row too then its $2. If you front all the money for him and eat any of the keys that don't get purchased maybee he will do it!

That's kind of what I wanted to say. If he pays for the keys, he has to make profit of them. You can argue there about whether 2$ is too much, but there needs to be profit. Maybe even for 'just' sending all the packages without fronting the money. This wasn't part of the GB from the beginning, but others do this all the time, so there's absolutely no problem with that. And the unexpected additional work for this wasn't part of the GB from the beginning, either.

A good solution would IMO be we we donate the money to buy the keys in a group effort, he sells them for like .5 each, and then we get our money back. Or something like that. If it wasn't for transaction costs. And this still doesn't solve anything about reselling. Ah well, no solution from me either, screw that. I'll continue to think about it, but I doubt there is an easy solution. :-/

What about the I'll buy 250 useless Riddlers guy? xD

[litster]

Like I said, there is no profit in this.  fstop's math would only work if all 500 keys are sold.  Even if that happens, which I don't think it would, it will take a loooooong time to sell all 500 keycaps.  To do this, Tsangan will be working minimum wage for hours.  

Easiest thing to do is to send the keycaps back to SP.  Forget this ever happened.

[demik]

I'll pay you half and you buy them and burn them over a live stream and nobody gets a damn thing


I support your two dollar idea.

[Zehkul]

Yeah it's probably the easiest thing to do. Yes, he won't sell all 500 at 2$ each, and that's my only gripe with this, he'll end up without any loss (good thing) but with many keycaps and nothing to do with them (not that good). But in lack of a better solution...

[thegunner100]

I'd like to take a few Esc row keys for $2 each.

[mbc]

hm.. I think a lot of ppl would take the r1 instead of r4.
so you don't need to redo all of them.

BTW. made me freak out there for a second, but got it right .. puh

[zzspectrez]

I'll pay you half and you buy them and burn them over a live stream and nobody gets a damn thing


I support your two dollar idea.

BWaHahhahah... I must be twisted I think I could donate to that!!

I mean for science. You know to see how they burn and stuff...

[cliffooord]

id probably take 1

[Zehkul]

BWaHahhahah... I must be twisted I think I could donate to that!!

I'd, too, actually. Not much, though. It's a terrible waste, but a pretty fun one, lol. “Hey look at that SP, that's what we think of your keys” ehem....

[boost]

ill take 20 @ $2 each

Sent from a phone...

[CaiSter21]

that would require too much work for him.

[royalsego]

The update in the OP does not state clearly what is at $0.35/ea and resold at $2.00/ea or why.

[mickd]

There seem to be a lot of people willing to take the risk off his shoulders (if that is what he is worried about), and collaborate to get this done in a more traditional manner. Ultimately it's his choice, and he has built a reputation here with his previous group buys, but I have to say that I am pretty disappointed with the approach Tsangan chose. If he wants to profit out of this he can, but I feel a ROI of 460% is too high.

I think a good compromise would be selling them at $1 a key (to the people that are already in this group buy), and maybe $2 a key to everyone else. I still don't like this idea but at least it doesn't feel like you're trying to completely profit off of us.

I think what fstop said in a previous post is very accurate to how I feel.