Red vs Black Switches

[iBro]

Hello all. After using brown switches for almost a month now, I've become increasingly agitated with this "tactile" switch. The small bump it provides is unnoticeable during normal typing, and thus provides me with little feedback on if my key has actuated or not. And this really got me thinking, why even use any kind of tactile switch? I don't see myself ever not bottoming out while typing, so I see little use in a switch that provides tactile feedback, since I will most likely bottom the key out anyway. So barring a buckling spring keyboard, I see very little reason to get a keyboard that provides tactile feedback. But if you have good reasons to try clears or blues please let me know, because I haven't found one yet.

But now on to the point of my post. Since I will most likely be purchasing a keyboard with linear switches I am looking for opinions on red switches vs black switches.

Reds I've heard are extremely light and have a pleasant linear feel to them. What I'm worried about though, is that they are too light. Which may lead to accidental key presses. Especially because I think of myself as a fairly heavy typist. It seems that if I try to hold my fingers back and press the keys with just enough force needed to actuate the key, it feels like my hands tense up and it actually becomes a more strenuous experience.

Which leads me to black switches. I will be typing a lot for school, and I have heard nasty rumors about fatigue when typing long things on black switches. But could these anecdotes be over-exaggerated? If I recall, black switches have a similar actuation force as a buckling spring, but you don't see many people complain about typing papers on a buckling spring.

So I ask you kindly Geek Hack, for your opinions on your favorite linear switch. And please feel free to verbally abuse me if you strongly disagree on my stance on tactile switches.

[hashbaz]

Tactility is about enjoying how your switch feels.  There's no real utility in it per se (if anyone actually uses it to change how they type, speak up).

I've had some issues with inadvertant keypresses on my variable-weight Realforce, but never my reds.  Like many here I tried blacks (and clears) but didn't like the heaviness.  That said, I enjoy the heavy clickiness of buckling springs.  You really do just have to try 'em all to see what you like best.

[iBro]

Hashbaz, how does the weight of the buckling springs you have tried compared to those of the black switches. Like I voiced before, I thought they required similar weight to actuate the key. But I understand that black is linear so what you may be describing as "heavy" when you talk about the black switches is the continued force required to bottom out the key, versus the the key becoming much easier to depress after causing the spring to buckle in a buckling spring keyboard.

All in all I am extremely interested in buckling spring after your statement about there really not being a purpose for tactility besides the feel. But I also would like to have a mini keyboard to carry around at school so that I could type papers in say the library, instead of coming home to type papers on a nice keyboard, after all, very little work gets done when I'm at my home computer. But of course wanting a mini keyboard kind of eliminates buckling spring :pout:.

So basically I'm still very interested in the black switch vs red switch debate, and would love to hear from as many people as possible.

Also, I think I'm going to delete my other thread. After reading them both, they are basically the same thing.

[nhwhaup]

I tried browns and even with the minimal tactile bump, I knew right off that they weren't the switch for me.  I cannot speak for blacks as I'm all about getting a light typing experience. I absolutely love the reds. I have no issue with hitting the keys in error and kind of like the light tapping sound if I do bottom out.  If you don't mind a keyboard without dedicated arrow keys the Pokers are light weight and come in a number of different switches.

[slueth]

I have both the reds and the blacks, i prefer the blacks,  more firm.

[hashbaz]

Don't quote me but I think the actuation force on a Model M is greater than that of MX black switches.  Regardless, it's definitely the combo of stiff + linear that I don't like, not stiffness alone.  I also almost always bottom out, so the distinction between pre- and post-tactile force isn't important to me.

As far as travel keyboards go, the standard options are the Poker and the Choc Mini.  I've owned and loved both, and they're both available in reds and blacks.

One thing you might try if you're feeling adventurous is to get a black switch keyboard to try out, and then swap in the brown springs from the keyboard you have now.  The combo of black stem and brown spring (or red spring or blue spring -- they're all the same) is called a ghetto red.  Ghetto reds feel indistinguishable from real reds (the red and black stems are identical apart from their color).  This mod is a bit of work, but it can save you time and money in the long run when deciding between reds and blacks.

[HWI]

I think blacks suck, too heavy and fatigue my fingers. Reds are my favorite switch and I've never had an issue with accidental key presses.

[Boyiee]

I bottom out a TON, and ended up selling my browns and clears in favor of blues and reds. Currently, I use my reds for EVERYTHING and rarely touch my blues. Whether I'm typing a 15 page report, a post on a forum, playing an MMO or FPS, I just can't put my reds down.

Have not had a chance to try blacks - maybe when I sell my blues I'll give them a whirl, but I'm pretty convinced I'll be using nothing but reds for my next several boards.

[dimoniy]

Blacks: You will learn how not to bottom out with blacks pretty soon
Reds: You will have some typos at first, but you'll adjust to the new feel in no time. The feel of reds is very similar to browns (5g difference)  except for the tactility.

[Henry Allen Venture]

Not entirely on-topic, though it speaks to the "lightness" MX Red switches, it seems strange to me that people are often so worried about Reds being too light because, as dimoniy mentioned, the difference between Reds and Browns isn't really that much. Having typed a lot on both I can say for sure that I always bottom out when using Reds. If I concentrate I can type on Browns and not bottom them out, and the tactility definitely helps with this, but restraining myself from pressing all the way down definitely strains my hands a bit after a while (which I think someone mentioned earlier also). Its of no great consequence to me whether I bottom out or not, but I can say that I definitely prefer a tactile switch to type on.

[Boyiee]

I learned very quickly to adjust to the sensitivity of red switches. Occasionally I would accidentally hit my push to talk key in ventrilo while singing or talking to someone in my room cause I would rest my hand on it. But they really aren't THAT sensitive, I never had typo's or mistakes or accidental keypresses... Just had to learn not to leave my hand on the keyboard or resting on the push to talk key when I had nothing to say.

[iBro]

I thank you all so much for your comments, and I think I have made a decision. It is kind of a long one so bear with me.

I was looking into a mini keyboard with either red or black switches. I was doing this because I will have a laptop sometime in the future, and would love to have a keyboard to carry around with it. But I don't really see myself getting a laptop in the very near future, so I switched my priorities to finding a nice sturdy one for my home computer to replace my Leopold (Brown).

So I have decided to go buckling spring. I believe that the unique tactility coupled with the increased weight will feel very good to type on. They are also cheaper compared to full sized keyboards with cherry switches. And I also love the noise they make when typing on them.

I now have my sights set on a Unicomp spacesaver model, which costs around 80$. I have some questions about this keyboard though, mainly in the area of build quality. So if you own this keyboard and would like to give me some feedback on it, please hop over to my other thread and comment.