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Author Topic: Keyboard for Weak Hands  (Read 9548 times)

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Offline HugeProblem

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:13:14 »
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, so I will start a topic / ask a question.

I have hypermobile syndrome, which means that I'm basically double jointed in all of my joints, this has lead to chronic pain throughout my body, but especially in my hands and wrists.

I've always enjoyed gaming and I type a fair amount; but things as simple as pressing the shift button to crouch in an FPS can become very painful very quickly.

I'm looking at a mechanical keyboard but I honestly don't know what I should be looking for to purchase to avoid the pain that comes with using a keyboard.

The only thing that I can think would be important for me is for when a key is pressed down, for it to take very little effort to keep the key pressed down. Repetitive keystrokes become unbearable after just a few minutes, like, say playing a rogue in WoW. So I'm guessing a key with very little force to press is important too.

Anyone with carpal tunnel, or arthritis settle on a keyboard that keeps the pain away longer? I'd love any input.
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Offline F u r u y á

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:22:27 »
I don't have CTS (so this is just a suggestion) but I think you need those super ergonomic keyboards, like Kinesis with MX Red switches (very light) and O'Rings (for soft landing).
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Offline ITzNybble

  • Formerly curro123083
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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:26:40 »
Anyone tried gaming with Data Hands? taht would be the best if there descent for gaming
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Offline trax

  • Posts: 174
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:35:54 »
Quote from: curro123083;498963
Anyone tried gaming with Data Hands? taht would be the best if there descent for gaming

Impossible for games that require a mouse, no?
Or just use 1 datahand?

@OP - Cherry MX Red are the lightest switches, I dont even feel them.
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Offline Supertoaster

  • Posts: 34
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:59:15 »
You will want Cherry MX Reds. They are very light :)

I do not know of any ergonomic keyboards that use them, unfortunately :(
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Offline rodya

  • Posts: 115
  • Location: Southern California
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:03:31 »
Quote from: F u r u y á;498959
I don't have CTS (so this is just a suggestion) but I think you need those super ergonomic keyboards, like Kinesis with MX Red switches (very light) and O'Rings (for soft landing).

I don't have CTS either, but MX Reds would definitely be the switch, and you shouldn't bottom out but in case you do 40a o-rings would be good to soften the landing.

Just saw this on newegg.  Not as good as keyboard/mouse for gaming, but maybe something like that could take the load off your hands.
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Offline HugeProblem

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:12:00 »
Thanks for all the replies!

Rodya, I had no idea such a thing existed, sounds like something from The Minority Report to me. For $99 the reviews make it sound like it's still needing to be improved, but has potential.

About ergonomic: for me I don't really like ergonomic, it puts my wrists at weird angles, and an ergonomic mechanical keyboard will be spendy, too.
The main provider of pain for me is pressing keys repeatedly, and holding a key with my pinky finger. So MX Cherry is what it sounds like I'd want. How are those to hold down though, do they like to spring back up?
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fossala

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:15:24 »
Depending on the MX switch the have different force spings so will spring back differently. I would try MX browns or reds if you have joint problems as they are the lightest.
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Offline F u r u y á

  • Posts: 427
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:17:52 »
Quote from: HugeProblem;498998
do they like to spring back up?

You mean a high opposite force against your fingers? In case of Cherry MX Red, no. They're very light, some people hate it because of that. But I love it, I can type very quickly, lightly and effortlessly with it. And they're very good for gaming as well.

You can take a look at Leopold with MX Red at elitekeyboards (they have fullsized as well). Other options are Rosewill, Filco, CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid, KBC Poker, Nopoo, Ducky, etc... if I recall correctly all of them have a version with Red switches.
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:20:01 by F u r u y á »
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Offline GeorgeStorm

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 19:56:47 »
I'd also recommend reds, take very little force to press down.
I sometimes wonder why the webpage I'm viewing suddenly goes crazy, and it's because I'm holding down tab without even realising it.
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Offline Barn

  • Posts: 68
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 20:18:05 »
I would recommend Cherry MX Reds. If you find it hard to justify paying a lot of $ for a board you could always pick up one of these from WASD, it's $2 and you can see if Reds are for you. http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1/cherry-mx-red-keyswitch-mx1a-l1nn.html
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 January 2012, 20:18:34 by Barn »
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Offline Playtrumpet

  • Posts: 209
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 January 2012, 20:18:53 »
Reds, yes. But you could also search for a 30g uniform Topre board. May want to ask around about that. It'll obviously cost you much more than a Cherry MX board.
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Dvorak

Offline Tony

  • Posts: 1189
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 26 January 2012, 02:25:38 »
Reds. You will barely feel the keys.
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Layout: Colemak experience, speed of 67wpm

Offline pyro

  • Posts: 177
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 26 January 2012, 10:50:53 »
Remapping Shift to Capslock might also help.
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Offline Stone

  • Posts: 22
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:22:09 »
Hello! I also have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome hypermobility type (aka hypermobility syndrome) so I should be able to give you a fairly accurate answer :)

Personally I use a Datahand for typing (and I'm using it to write this!). Yes, they are incredibly expensive - and Datahand don't have any for sale at the moment - but you won't find a more comfortable keyboard. The keys are incredibly low-force (~10g) and arranged in a very comfy format that lets you rest your hands on the squidgy rubber pads in between keystrokes. This takes all the strain off your wrists - you'll find it difficult to find a conventional keyboard that lets you do this because the basic design underlying them all is so horrible. The key layout takes a little getting used to, took me 2-3 months to get back up to near my old speed of 50+ wpm but I can keep this up all day every day without making my hand pain any worse. I have had a lot of reconstructive surgery to the tendons in my hands so they are very sensitive to holding an ergonomically incorrect position, but I can only describe the Datahand's levels of comfort as magical. It's been my main keyboard for nearly 5 years now and I can't imagine working without it. On a standard flat keyboard I'm in pain within 5 minutes.

I would say the Kinesis Advantage and Maltron keyboards (with Cherry MX reds) are the most sensible alternatives if you can't find / afford a Datahand. Whatever you do don't get a Goldtouch, they're awful!

You could use a Datahand for gaming (with only the left hand, obviously) but you would need some key remapping. WASD would be very uncomfortable to use, I would probably use something like RDFS. Alternatively you could try a Belkin Nostromo n52 just for games:


They're cheap as chips so you could just grab one off eBay and see if you like it :)

I also use an Evoluent VerticalMouse and a Griffin Powermate configured as a scroll wheel - the most important thing is to make sure you try different devices until you find something that you find comfortable! If you need a new keyboard for work you may be able to get help from Access to Work (link) - they paid for my Datahand so I was obviously very happy with them!

Hope that helps :)

Stone
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Offline killazys

  • Posts: 17
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:27:01 »
Why not try a scissor switch? Something like the Logitech illuminated.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
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Offline kps

  • Posts: 410
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:46:17 »
Would you be able to use a foot switch for keys that need to be held down?
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Offline Squelos

  • Posts: 153
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:06:44 »
Quote from: kps;554562
Would you be able to use a foot switch for keys that need to be held down?

ROFL. Best idea ever.
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Offline Playtrumpet

  • Posts: 209
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:35:04 »
Quote from: Squelos;554579
ROFL. Best idea ever.


More common than you think.

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« Last Edit: Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:37:34 by Playtrumpet »
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Dvorak

Offline Shogunner

  • Posts: 58
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 10:06:07 »
CTS sucks, I had it in my left hand starting at 17. :(

I just wear one of those splint braces, worked as a nifty wrist rest (my keyboard is near the edge of my desk) and didn't impair my typing skills. I type on blues btw.

Try out one of these maybe, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RZHPOM/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details, then move onto a higher quality one if you stick with it.
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Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:02:22 »
I agree with the datahand suggestion.

There's another option
http://www.fentek-ind.com/split_magic.htm

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20 grams of force and it's a steal at the price of $89.
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Offline hoggy

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:04:22 »
Tim Tyler needs a mention
http://www.mykeyboard.co.uk/
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GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline captain

  • Posts: 703
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:08:48 »
"Doc, when I FPS for hours on end after a long day of typing, my hands hurt!  What should I do???"

"Stop doing that." :-P

That said, you might try the lightest switches you can find, and learn to control your fingers -- don't bottom out, and keep your fingers curved like a good pianist. Use the tips, not the pads.

Doesn't Topre make a 30g switch?
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:10:57 by captain »
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Offline hoggy

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 01:19:46 »
You could also look at autohotkey or macro express.


Another keyboard to hunt for is the touchstream
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GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
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Offline Squelos

  • Posts: 153
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 16:40:46 »
Use an ipad. Seems like a legit proposal :P
Dont break your fingers on the screen thought.
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Offline Fuzzy Dunlop

  • Posts: 79
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 19:38:21 »
Apple Aluminum Bluetooth Keyboard might actually be a good fit for you. It has extremely shallow keys set on scissor switches, very easy to press.
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Topre ReɅlforce 86UB   |   Razer DeathAdder Black Edition

Offline GODJOEY

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Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 24 March 2012, 19:51:23 »
Really like the  cherry mx red switches.
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Offline MKB

  • Posts: 73
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 25 March 2012, 01:44:08 »
If you have sore wrists I would stay away from games or use a foot pedal...

It really depends how heavy you are on the keys...  Red is to light for me...
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________________________________
Current:

Leopold Tenkeyless (Cherry Clears)
Leopold Tenkeyless (Cherry Reds)
Filco Tenkeyless Zero (White Fukkas)
Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 (Buckling Spring)

Past:

IBM Model F (Buckling Spring)
IBM Model M (Buckling Spring)
Northgate (White Alps)
Fujitsu (peerless)
HHKB Pro 2 (Topre)
Deck Legend (Cherry Blacks)
Deck 82 (Cherry Blacks)
Unicomp Customizer 104 (Buckling Spring)

Offline Exort

  • Posts: 70
Keyboard for Weak Hands
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 25 March 2012, 02:12:07 »
Full board of topre 30g can't get lighter than that.
Too bad they doesn't make such a keyboard with only that switch.
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